RE: Winterkorn out!
Discussion
Hopefully this will bring a change to the EU and UK tax laws and emissions targets, as that would be a benefit to most car owners.
We should hope that tax on car emissions is scrapped.
The majority of this green friendly stuff is BS.
Don't get me wrong, I dont go out of my way to destroy the environment but nature has a way of dealing with things aside from the fact that a cow emits more CO2 than most cars but I dont think farmers get taxed on cow emissions!
And the hole in the ozone layer, oh that seems to have been quietly put on the shelf in the hopes that it will be forgotten about as it seems to have disappeared!
Awaits streams of abuse....
We should hope that tax on car emissions is scrapped.
The majority of this green friendly stuff is BS.
Don't get me wrong, I dont go out of my way to destroy the environment but nature has a way of dealing with things aside from the fact that a cow emits more CO2 than most cars but I dont think farmers get taxed on cow emissions!
And the hole in the ozone layer, oh that seems to have been quietly put on the shelf in the hopes that it will be forgotten about as it seems to have disappeared!
Awaits streams of abuse....
PH Porschar lovers will be thrilled that Porschar are taking over.......
The American government seems to have a history of fining companies for activities contrary to the law but for which they make little interest in or make effort to prevent. In contrast to hindering other countries fining American companies.
So this is likely going to be costly for VW.
The American government seems to have a history of fining companies for activities contrary to the law but for which they make little interest in or make effort to prevent. In contrast to hindering other countries fining American companies.
So this is likely going to be costly for VW.
smilo996 said:
PH Porschar lovers will be thrilled that Porschar are taking over.......
The American government seems to have a history of fining companies for activities contrary to the law but for which they make little interest in or make effort to prevent. In contrast to hindering other countries fining American companies.
So this is likely going to be costly for VW.
Fining companies is a great money spinner for the US government - why would they prevent that from happening?The American government seems to have a history of fining companies for activities contrary to the law but for which they make little interest in or make effort to prevent. In contrast to hindering other countries fining American companies.
So this is likely going to be costly for VW.
Contigo said:
Cracking article in today's Times about VW and Porsche Family.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/...
Paywalled. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/...
CS400 said:
Hopefully this will bring a change to the EU and UK tax laws and emissions targets, as that would be a benefit to most car owners.
We should hope that tax on car emissions is scrapped.
The majority of this green friendly stuff is BS.
Don't get me wrong, I dont go out of my way to destroy the environment but nature has a way of dealing with things aside from the fact that a cow emits more CO2 than most cars but I dont think farmers get taxed on cow emissions!
And the hole in the ozone layer, oh that seems to have been quietly put on the shelf in the hopes that it will be forgotten about as it seems to have disappeared!
Awaits streams of abuse....
Re emissions from cows: in Blair`s day the Cabinet Office actually published a paper discussing that very possibility and, believe it not, the foreign aid budget is being used to study this very same subject in Bolivia. Your taxes at work!We should hope that tax on car emissions is scrapped.
The majority of this green friendly stuff is BS.
Don't get me wrong, I dont go out of my way to destroy the environment but nature has a way of dealing with things aside from the fact that a cow emits more CO2 than most cars but I dont think farmers get taxed on cow emissions!
And the hole in the ozone layer, oh that seems to have been quietly put on the shelf in the hopes that it will be forgotten about as it seems to have disappeared!
Awaits streams of abuse....
EricE said:
Paywalled.
Not sure if I'll get a smack for this? 
The intense boardroom drama at VW is nothing new to the wealthy but troubled Porsche family that ultimately controls the company and which has been at war with itself for half a century (David Charter, in Berlin, writes).
Among the senior VW board members who gathered for crisis talks yesterday, Wolfgang Porsche, 72, represented the family that has been behind Europe’s biggest car company since its beginnings serving Adolf Hitler in the 1930s.
Wolfgang, a grandson of the founder Ferdinand Porsche, is a veteran of the battles raging behind the scenes between the family’s two branches over the direction of the VW Group.
The split occurred in the previous generation, when shares in the Porsche company were divided up between Ferdinand’s two children, Louise and Ferdinand (known as Ferry), and their eight children.
Louise was married to fellow Austrian Anton Piëch, a lawyer who once defended her father and ended up running the VW factory at Wolfsburg during the Second World War when it made weapons, including the V1 rocket. She and her four children each received 10 per cent of the company that today owns just over half of VW, as did Ferry and his four sons.
The power battles that followed were sharpest between Louise’s son Ferdinand Piëch, head of development at Porsche, and Ferry’s son Hans-Peter Porsche, the production manager.
Ferry called a family conference in 1970 at the Porsche estate in Zell am See in the Austrian Alps, and even hired a psychologist to help reconcile the quarrelling relatives.
He oversaw a ruling that no family members should ever again be allowed to work at the sports car branch of the empire — a heavy blow to both Ferdinand Piëch and Hans-Peter Porsche.
Since then members of the Porsche side are said to refer to the Piëch side as “Nicht-Namenstraeger” (the non-name carriers), and the Piëch side is said to call the Porsches “Gegenfamilie” (against the family).
It was Ferdinand Piëch who reopened the wounds dramatically in 1972, just two years after the family peace conference, when he began an affair with Marlene Porsche — the wife of Ferry’s second son Gerhard — to the horror of the Porsche side.
Ferdinand lived with her for 12 years and they had two children. Even worse was that, in divorcing Gerd, Marlene took a share of the company and disrupted the careful ownership balance between the two branches — to the detriment of the Porsches.
The latest trial of strength earlier this year again involved Ferdinand Piëch.
After Ferry Porsche’s ruling in 1970, Mr Piëch joined Audi and then proved his brilliance as VW chief executive from 1993 and board chairman from 2002, saving it from bankruptcy, taking Volkswagen and Audi upmarket and building the foundations for global expansion with acquisitions including Bentley and Lamborghini.
Then in April he tried to force out the chief executive Martin Winterkorn, prompting his boardroom rival Wolfgang Porsche, Ferry’s fourth son, to come to Mr Winterkorn’s defence. Neither man likes to lose, but while Mr Piëch is known as tough and humourless, Mr Porsche at least wields his power with a joke and a smile.
It is not only Mr Piëch, who has 12 children with four women, who has a lively personal life. Wolfgang Porsche is himself twice married, twice divorced and the father of four.
He often retreats to the family estate at Zell am See where he likes to tend to his herd of 200 cattle, spend days hunting or take one of his collection of vintage cars for a spin.
Wolfgang prevailed in the final showdown when the rest of the board rallied round to keep Mr Winterkorn – until yesterday when Mr Porsche was forced to announce the chief executive’s departure.
CoinSl0t said:
Not sure if I'll get a smack for this?
The intense boardroom drama at VW is nothing new to the wealthy but troubled Porsche family that ultimately controls the company and which has been at war with itself for half a century (David Charter, in Berlin, writes).
Among the senior VW board members who gathered for crisis talks yesterday, Wolfgang Porsche, 72, represented the family that has been behind Europe’s biggest car company since its beginnings serving Adolf Hitler in the 1930s.
Wolfgang, a grandson of the founder Ferdinand Porsche, is a veteran of the battles raging behind the scenes between the family’s two branches over the direction of the VW Group.
The split occurred in the previous generation, when shares in the Porsche company were divided up between Ferdinand’s two children, Louise and Ferdinand (known as Ferry), and their eight children.
Louise was married to fellow Austrian Anton Piëch, a lawyer who once defended her father and ended up running the VW factory at Wolfsburg during the Second World War when it made weapons, including the V1 rocket. She and her four children each received 10 per cent of the company that today owns just over half of VW, as did Ferry and his four sons.
The power battles that followed were sharpest between Louise’s son Ferdinand Piëch, head of development at Porsche, and Ferry’s son Hans-Peter Porsche, the production manager.
Ferry called a family conference in 1970 at the Porsche estate in Zell am See in the Austrian Alps, and even hired a psychologist to help reconcile the quarrelling relatives.
He oversaw a ruling that no family members should ever again be allowed to work at the sports car branch of the empire — a heavy blow to both Ferdinand Piëch and Hans-Peter Porsche.
Since then members of the Porsche side are said to refer to the Piëch side as “Nicht-Namenstraeger” (the non-name carriers), and the Piëch side is said to call the Porsches “Gegenfamilie” (against the family).
It was Ferdinand Piëch who reopened the wounds dramatically in 1972, just two years after the family peace conference, when he began an affair with Marlene Porsche — the wife of Ferry’s second son Gerhard — to the horror of the Porsche side.
Ferdinand lived with her for 12 years and they had two children. Even worse was that, in divorcing Gerd, Marlene took a share of the company and disrupted the careful ownership balance between the two branches — to the detriment of the Porsches.
The latest trial of strength earlier this year again involved Ferdinand Piëch.
After Ferry Porsche’s ruling in 1970, Mr Piëch joined Audi and then proved his brilliance as VW chief executive from 1993 and board chairman from 2002, saving it from bankruptcy, taking Volkswagen and Audi upmarket and building the foundations for global expansion with acquisitions including Bentley and Lamborghini.
Then in April he tried to force out the chief executive Martin Winterkorn, prompting his boardroom rival Wolfgang Porsche, Ferry’s fourth son, to come to Mr Winterkorn’s defence. Neither man likes to lose, but while Mr Piëch is known as tough and humourless, Mr Porsche at least wields his power with a joke and a smile.
It is not only Mr Piëch, who has 12 children with four women, who has a lively personal life. Wolfgang Porsche is himself twice married, twice divorced and the father of four.
He often retreats to the family estate at Zell am See where he likes to tend to his herd of 200 cattle, spend days hunting or take one of his collection of vintage cars for a spin.
Wolfgang prevailed in the final showdown when the rest of the board rallied round to keep Mr Winterkorn – until yesterday when Mr Porsche was forced to announce the chief executive’s departure.
It's all very interesting isn't it. The intense boardroom drama at VW is nothing new to the wealthy but troubled Porsche family that ultimately controls the company and which has been at war with itself for half a century (David Charter, in Berlin, writes).
Among the senior VW board members who gathered for crisis talks yesterday, Wolfgang Porsche, 72, represented the family that has been behind Europe’s biggest car company since its beginnings serving Adolf Hitler in the 1930s.
Wolfgang, a grandson of the founder Ferdinand Porsche, is a veteran of the battles raging behind the scenes between the family’s two branches over the direction of the VW Group.
The split occurred in the previous generation, when shares in the Porsche company were divided up between Ferdinand’s two children, Louise and Ferdinand (known as Ferry), and their eight children.
Louise was married to fellow Austrian Anton Piëch, a lawyer who once defended her father and ended up running the VW factory at Wolfsburg during the Second World War when it made weapons, including the V1 rocket. She and her four children each received 10 per cent of the company that today owns just over half of VW, as did Ferry and his four sons.
The power battles that followed were sharpest between Louise’s son Ferdinand Piëch, head of development at Porsche, and Ferry’s son Hans-Peter Porsche, the production manager.
Ferry called a family conference in 1970 at the Porsche estate in Zell am See in the Austrian Alps, and even hired a psychologist to help reconcile the quarrelling relatives.
He oversaw a ruling that no family members should ever again be allowed to work at the sports car branch of the empire — a heavy blow to both Ferdinand Piëch and Hans-Peter Porsche.
Since then members of the Porsche side are said to refer to the Piëch side as “Nicht-Namenstraeger” (the non-name carriers), and the Piëch side is said to call the Porsches “Gegenfamilie” (against the family).
It was Ferdinand Piëch who reopened the wounds dramatically in 1972, just two years after the family peace conference, when he began an affair with Marlene Porsche — the wife of Ferry’s second son Gerhard — to the horror of the Porsche side.
Ferdinand lived with her for 12 years and they had two children. Even worse was that, in divorcing Gerd, Marlene took a share of the company and disrupted the careful ownership balance between the two branches — to the detriment of the Porsches.
The latest trial of strength earlier this year again involved Ferdinand Piëch.
After Ferry Porsche’s ruling in 1970, Mr Piëch joined Audi and then proved his brilliance as VW chief executive from 1993 and board chairman from 2002, saving it from bankruptcy, taking Volkswagen and Audi upmarket and building the foundations for global expansion with acquisitions including Bentley and Lamborghini.
Then in April he tried to force out the chief executive Martin Winterkorn, prompting his boardroom rival Wolfgang Porsche, Ferry’s fourth son, to come to Mr Winterkorn’s defence. Neither man likes to lose, but while Mr Piëch is known as tough and humourless, Mr Porsche at least wields his power with a joke and a smile.
It is not only Mr Piëch, who has 12 children with four women, who has a lively personal life. Wolfgang Porsche is himself twice married, twice divorced and the father of four.
He often retreats to the family estate at Zell am See where he likes to tend to his herd of 200 cattle, spend days hunting or take one of his collection of vintage cars for a spin.
Wolfgang prevailed in the final showdown when the rest of the board rallied round to keep Mr Winterkorn – until yesterday when Mr Porsche was forced to announce the chief executive’s departure.
SPMX5 said:
Brilliantly worded! Never ceases to amaze how riled up people get on here about VW.
Fully agree. The most puzzling thing is the hypocrisy on here IMO. "Normal" people or eco minded souls have all the right to feel cheated (and I'm glad I sold my VAG shares a good while ago). But if you had access to an ECU calibration that gives more power and better fuel economy (but worse emissions) -- who would say no? CoinSl0t said:
EricE said:
Paywalled.
Not sure if I'll get a smack for this? The intense boardroom drama at VW is nothing new to the wealthy but troubled Porsche family that ultimately controls the company and which has been at war with itself for half a century (David Charter, in Berlin, writes).
Among the senior VW board members who gathered for crisis talks yesterday, Wolfgang Porsche, 72, represented the family that has been behind Europe’s biggest car company since its beginnings serving Adolf Hitler in the 1930s.
Wolfgang, a grandson of the founder Ferdinand Porsche, is a veteran of the battles raging behind the scenes between the family’s two branches over the direction of the VW Group.
The split occurred in the previous generation, when shares in the Porsche company were divided up between Ferdinand’s two children, Louise and Ferdinand (known as Ferry), and their eight children.
Louise was married to fellow Austrian Anton Piëch, a lawyer who once defended her father and ended up running the VW factory at Wolfsburg during the Second World War when it made weapons, including the V1 rocket. She and her four children each received 10 per cent of the company that today owns just over half of VW, as did Ferry and his four sons.
The power battles that followed were sharpest between Louise’s son Ferdinand Piëch, head of development at Porsche, and Ferry’s son Hans-Peter Porsche, the production manager.
Ferry called a family conference in 1970 at the Porsche estate in Zell am See in the Austrian Alps, and even hired a psychologist to help reconcile the quarrelling relatives.
He oversaw a ruling that no family members should ever again be allowed to work at the sports car branch of the empire — a heavy blow to both Ferdinand Piëch and Hans-Peter Porsche.
Since then members of the Porsche side are said to refer to the Piëch side as “Nicht-Namenstraeger” (the non-name carriers), and the Piëch side is said to call the Porsches “Gegenfamilie” (against the family).
It was Ferdinand Piëch who reopened the wounds dramatically in 1972, just two years after the family peace conference, when he began an affair with Marlene Porsche — the wife of Ferry’s second son Gerhard — to the horror of the Porsche side.
Ferdinand lived with her for 12 years and they had two children. Even worse was that, in divorcing Gerd, Marlene took a share of the company and disrupted the careful ownership balance between the two branches — to the detriment of the Porsches.
The latest trial of strength earlier this year again involved Ferdinand Piëch.
After Ferry Porsche’s ruling in 1970, Mr Piëch joined Audi and then proved his brilliance as VW chief executive from 1993 and board chairman from 2002, saving it from bankruptcy, taking Volkswagen and Audi upmarket and building the foundations for global expansion with acquisitions including Bentley and Lamborghini.
Then in April he tried to force out the chief executive Martin Winterkorn, prompting his boardroom rival Wolfgang Porsche, Ferry’s fourth son, to come to Mr Winterkorn’s defence. Neither man likes to lose, but while Mr Piëch is known as tough and humourless, Mr Porsche at least wields his power with a joke and a smile.
It is not only Mr Piëch, who has 12 children with four women, who has a lively personal life. Wolfgang Porsche is himself twice married, twice divorced and the father of four.
He often retreats to the family estate at Zell am See where he likes to tend to his herd of 200 cattle, spend days hunting or take one of his collection of vintage cars for a spin.
Wolfgang prevailed in the final showdown when the rest of the board rallied round to keep Mr Winterkorn – until yesterday when Mr Porsche was forced to announce the chief executive’s departure.
Guvernator said:
I know this is only in the US but I really hope it effects the EU too. Uninformed politicians on the back of claims still to be positively substantiated decided that they would "save the planet" and more importantly win green votes by making everyone drive diesels. Anyone who lives in an urban environment can tell you which cars are the dirtiest most polluting, just by standing a few feet from one and it certainly isn't the car that is chugging out black smelly smoke while allegedly putting out less c02.
Obviously VW aren't blameless as they have cheated but the real culprits are the politicians who meddle with and make decisions on things they barely understand. A testing regime that bears no relation to the real world and then strict financial penalties for failing to meet that test, is it any wonder that VW cheated? The whole thing is an absolute sham. I hope it does effect the EU and I hope the whole sordid emissions BS comes crashing down around their ears.
+1Obviously VW aren't blameless as they have cheated but the real culprits are the politicians who meddle with and make decisions on things they barely understand. A testing regime that bears no relation to the real world and then strict financial penalties for failing to meet that test, is it any wonder that VW cheated? The whole thing is an absolute sham. I hope it does effect the EU and I hope the whole sordid emissions BS comes crashing down around their ears.
What I don't understand is why vw went all cloak and dagger on this. Surely they knew it would come out eventually? Why didn't they just include an extra driving model labelled "super Eco" or something. The one that no one would use because the car ran like rubbish, but which customers all knew about due to the motoring press reviews and their salesmen advising customers against it.
All above board, emissions passed, everyone happy. Why did they not do that?
All above board, emissions passed, everyone happy. Why did they not do that?
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