Cars and 'high mileage' - are you one of the sheep?

[cjcor]

Soupie69uk said:

I love reading about these high miler cars. I currently only do 4k miles a year so would take a while for me to get up there.

A friend has a 08 520d M sport with the 170bhp engine and the engine was replaced at 90k as the chain snapped after about 3 and a half years. He had to contribute to some of the cost as it was out the 3 year warranty. It has now done 185k and the same thing has happened again. So think that is the end of that car. It is totally immaculate as we and had only had the turbo replaced about 5k miles ago. Other than general maintenance it has only needed a couple of abs sensors and a new battery. He is pretty gutted as he was offered £4k for a trade in on an XF about a week before the engine went.

Ask your friend to take it to BMW - i am pretty sure that cars of this vintage are covered by the "quality assurance" or something sounding similar scheme.

[dannyDC2]

J4CKO said:

dannyDC2 said:

You've got to remember a lot of wear on a vehicle happens at the very start of a journey. Seat bolsters, scratches on door handles, engine wear.

Good point, in the airline industry they measure hours and cycles, hours being how long its operated and cycles being a take off and landing. I think thats how it works, correct me if I am wrong there airline folk.

I never knew that, interesting!

I did read something one day, admittedly it was an oil advertisement so may not be the whole truth, but it stated that 85-90% of engine wear occurs in the first 2 minutes of use.

If that were true, just how important is mileage when engines are concerned? If not engines, then what else do the bigger numbers scare us from.

[MidnightXR6]

I bought an old winter shed volvo S80.

It had full service history and had 118k on it. Covered 2,000 trouble free miles on it so far and its as smooth as the day it came from the factory.

Ill probably keep it to around 150k but it wont be the last high mileage ovlov i will buy.

[lufbramatt]

I've taken my old Passat from 130000 miles to 266000 miles. Nothing has really broken but bits do wear out, but the trouble is bits are so cheap and the thing is so easy to work on I've ended up just replacing all the bits one by one and all the mechanical bits have been replaced, so it's not really a 266000 mile car, only the shell has actually done that mileage. It keeps soldiering on, helped by my nice simple motorway commute meaning the miles it gains are "easy" miles for the car. Doesn't use any oil or water, the shell is rot free...

Would I do it again? No, the last car I bought I looked for a nice low mileage one so I wouldn't have to spend weekends laying on the drive, but it was fun and I learnt a hell of a lot.

[jamieduff1981]

dannyDC2 said:

J4CKO said:

dannyDC2 said:

You've got to remember a lot of wear on a vehicle happens at the very start of a journey. Seat bolsters, scratches on door handles, engine wear.

Good point, in the airline industry they measure hours and cycles, hours being how long its operated and cycles being a take off and landing. I think thats how it works, correct me if I am wrong there airline folk.

I never knew that, interesting!

I did read something one day, admittedly it was an oil advertisement so may not be the whole truth, but it stated that 85-90% of engine wear occurs in the first 2 minutes of use.

If that were true, just how important is mileage when engines are concerned? If not engines, then what else do the bigger numbers scare us from.

Again that's only relevant to the engine which is the most robust part of the car.

The dampers wear a bit every single time they are stroked as do the bushes. Same goes for every bearing on the car that isn't lubricated by engine oil - every revolution is wearing.

[V8RX7]

I bought an Audi S2 Avant when it was 6yrs old with 160k on it - it was mint.

If I'd clocked it to 20k I doubt anyone would have been able to tell.

However I didn't like it and tried to sell it - the phone never rang.

I then tried advertising without the mileage - the phone never stopped ringing but everyone asked about the mileage, except one lad who came,looked at the car and after agreeing it was a great car - he noticed the mileage - he couldn't believe it was correct and admitted he wouldn't have come had he realised but bought it having driven it.

[brman]

jamieduff1981 said:

Again that's only relevant to the engine which is the most robust part of the car.

The dampers wear a bit every single time they are stroked as do the bushes. Same goes for every bearing on the car that isn't lubricated by engine oil - every revolution is wearing.

but isn't it more complicated than that? Continuous use means everything (not just the engine) is at working temperature, seals stay lubricated, brake discs will not rust etc. So I think there is a lot more that just the engine that benefits from longer, more regular, journeys over short start/stop/leave it on the drive.

Certainly, my experience has been that ultra low mileage cars are the most unreliable of the lot.

[V8RX7]

brman said:

jamieduff1981 said:

Again that's only relevant to the engine which is the most robust part of the car.

The dampers wear a bit every single time they are stroked as do the bushes. Same goes for every bearing on the car that isn't lubricated by engine oil - every revolution is wearing.

but isn't it more complicated than that? Continuous use means everything (not just the engine) is at working temperature, seals stay lubricated, brake discs will not rust etc. So I think there is a lot more that just the engine that benefits from longer, more regular, journeys over short start/stop/leave it on the drive.

Certainly, my experience has been that ultra low mileage cars are the most unreliable of the lot.

I suspect that a test car used to cover say 100k at 70mph continuously would have less wear and be in better condition than typical 20k car used for a short urban commute.

The problem is that the 100k car you see for sale may have covered 5x more urban commuting than the 20k one.

[brman]

V8RX7 said:

I suspect that a test car used to cover say 100k at 70mph continuously would have less wear and be in better condition than typical 20k car used for a short urban commute.

The problem is that the 100k car you see for sale may have covered 5x more urban commuting than the 20k one.

Agreed, but only if the 20k miler was only a couple of years old.

An 8 year old car which has done 90,000 miles vs an 8 year old car that has done 20,000 miles. Personally I'd avoid the 20k miler like the plague, not least because the seller is probably misguided enough to think it is worth way above book price because of the low miles.

I'd also avoid an 8 year old car that had done 150k miles though

[Devil2575]

brman said:

An 8 year old car which has done 90,000 miles vs an 8 year old car that has done 20,000 miles. Personally I'd avoid the 20k miler like the plague, not least because the seller is probably misguided enough to think it is worth way above book price because of the low miles.

Surely that depends on what the car is. A specialist car that is typically bought as a 2nd or even 3rd car may no do that many miles and as such low milages might be normal.

[Zerotonine]

I currently have a 09 Focus on 130k, bought it with 125k. Still tight as a drum, lovely car.
My previous was a ST24 with 205k, engine wise it pulled like a train, but the body was tired and fizzing away, and needed a lot of small bits doing, which would exceed the cost of the car by a far margin so I served it on.
I am not bothered by mileage as long as the car is looked after, if it hasn't then it is looking for trouble.

[Redlake27]

We've just added a 4year old 318d to the family fleet. Straight from the leasing company at 115k miles. It doesn't feel like a car that has had a hard life.

It sits alongside our six figure Alfa Spider. I'm delighted with having both for under 8k for the pair....

[Lester H]

If you need reassurance about mileage ,chat to a coach driver. Was told by driver of large prestigious private firm that they sold on at a million miles or 3 years, whichever came the sooner! Coach ran like new at 660,000 and he told me the company had a waiting list for the old ones! Volvo with Van Hool is usually assumed to be the best, but apparently Salvatore Caetono (Portugal) are the absolute best for bodywork. As someone who has been dubbed Engineer in this forumI appreciate that coaches aren't cars, however, the point - which stands - was really about motorway mileage ( awful cliche in ads but with some reasoning behind it).

Edited by Lester H on Sunday 4th October 20:54

Edited by Lester H on Sunday 4th October 20:57

[Lester H]

The coaches I mentioned are obviously "motorway mileage" as are many reps' cars. Here, mileage is not a big no - no. However, for suburban runabouts and smaller cars in general, as an old established small dealer - say 30 cars on the lot - told me: mileage is the best single indicator of overall condition.

[Willy Nilly]

Lester H said:

If you need reassurance about mileage ,chat to a coach driver. Was told by driver of large prestigious private firm that they sold on at a million miles or 3 years, whichever came the sooner! Coach ran like new at 660,000 and he told me the company had a waiting list for the old ones! Volvo with Van Hool is usually assumed to be the best, but apparently Salvatore Caetono (Portugal) are the absolute best for bodywork.

Heavy(ish) duty machine in doing a lot of miles shocker. You do realise that coaches aren't cars, don't you? The 660,000 mile coach may well be totally buggered if it isn't meticulously maintained. There excavators that get used in mines can do something daft like 120,000 engine hours, that doesn't mean a Mondeo can.

The engine and drive train in a car may well be able to do many hundreds of thousands of miles but it is normally all of the ancillary bits a bobs that mean it gets scrapped. A mate of mine bout a MKIII Golf TDi with 220,000 miles on it back when they were still current, it ran fine but he got sick of chasing electrical problems around the car and got rid.

[mat205125]

brman said:

V8RX7 said:

I suspect that a test car used to cover say 100k at 70mph continuously would have less wear and be in better condition than typical 20k car used for a short urban commute.

The problem is that the 100k car you see for sale may have covered 5x more urban commuting than the 20k one.

Agreed, but only if the 20k miler was only a couple of years old.

An 8 year old car which has done 90,000 miles vs an 8 year old car that has done 20,000 miles. Personally I'd avoid the 20k miler like the plague, not least because the seller is probably misguided enough to think it is worth way above book price because of the low miles.

I'd also avoid an 8 year old car that had done 150k miles though

The above is an interesting point.

I think that it's reasonable to suggest that most of us are comfortable that 10k to 15k per year is a "normal" annual mileage for a "normal" car.

Aside from a expected barrage of examples, I'd also expect us to largely agree that the engineering and quality of automobiles being manufactured these days means that it's perfectly reasonable to expect 10 to 15 years of service from a car, where we would have retired a worn out rust bucket to the scrapper after 6 to 8 years a couple of decades ago; We certainly don't spot a 55 plate car on the road today, and see a knackered old smoker that's clinging to the last few minutes of an MOT by the skin of it's teeth.

Given both of the above, however, we're still not as comfortable that the cars spanning these age and annual mileage ranges will have between 100k and 225k, and still be functioning effectively and reliably.

Our mental capacity has developed to deal with the improved longevity of cars, however not the associated accumulating mileage so much.

[JRvaux]

I drive 30k a year and usually buy a nearly new car with around 10 on the clock. I maintain them well and keep them up too 150-200k. The clutch , gearbox and engine easily last this but I usually sell around this time because there is a repair looming which will cost more than the car is worth. My last car a vectra ( don't laugh ) did 170k and apart from routine servicing, brakes and tires only needed an air con condenser and wheel bearing in all that time. No suspension items ever needed replacing even bushes. Not bad for a car with a bad reputation.

[Snowdrop_]

JRvaux said:

I drive 30k a year and usually buy a nearly new car with around 10 on the clock. I maintain them well and keep them up too 150-200k. The clutch , gearbox and engine easily last this but I usually sell around this time because there is a repair looming which will cost more than the car is worth. My last car a vectra ( don't laugh ) did 170k and apart from routine servicing, brakes and tires only needed an air con condenser and wheel bearing in all that time. No suspension items ever needed replacing even bushes. Not bad for a car with a bad reputation.

Good for you mate, I like to see people doing that and running them until viable possible.