Cars and 'high mileage' - are you one of the sheep?
Discussion
gizlaroc said:
I have just been offered a facelift MY07 E350 estate with 103k miles on it for £3800.
If I went to a 2003 E320 estate with 190k miles on it I would be paying about £800 less.
Why buy something which is nearly 13 years old instead of 9 years old with nearly twice the mileage to try and save £800?
I would be happy to spend £1000 on new suspension all round on the MY07 car, but would be a
7G trans and balancer shaft issues on the E350. Earlier car might make more sense in that case. If I went to a 2003 E320 estate with 190k miles on it I would be paying about £800 less.
Why buy something which is nearly 13 years old instead of 9 years old with nearly twice the mileage to try and save £800?
I would be happy to spend £1000 on new suspension all round on the MY07 car, but would be a
On some cars mileage is important, on others it verges on irrelevant and way below condition and maintenance in importance.
Edited by SuperHangOn on Tuesday 29th September 16:18
Shhhhh! Don't let the cat out of the bag.
A modern 100k mile car is typically as tight as a drum, and barely run in.
There are wear and tear items on cars of all mileages, and keeping on top of them whilst maintaining the car properly, can easily give you a car that will run and run and run.
People who "must" buy a nearly new, low mileage car, are doing us all a favour, and proliferating the cars that we need down the food chain to the "goldilocks price point"
6 to 9 years old, with 80k to 140k mileage is where I buy my daily drivers, typically. Depreciation has dropped prices for this type of car to maybe a quarter or less of their new list price, and set to maintain the majority of that value over 3 years of ownership.
Despite trying, I've not been able to explain this logic to a mate of mine that leases his euro box, and can't understand how we can afford to "swan about" (as he puts it) in something that would have been nearly £70k new.
A modern 100k mile car is typically as tight as a drum, and barely run in.
There are wear and tear items on cars of all mileages, and keeping on top of them whilst maintaining the car properly, can easily give you a car that will run and run and run.
People who "must" buy a nearly new, low mileage car, are doing us all a favour, and proliferating the cars that we need down the food chain to the "goldilocks price point"
6 to 9 years old, with 80k to 140k mileage is where I buy my daily drivers, typically. Depreciation has dropped prices for this type of car to maybe a quarter or less of their new list price, and set to maintain the majority of that value over 3 years of ownership.
Despite trying, I've not been able to explain this logic to a mate of mine that leases his euro box, and can't understand how we can afford to "swan about" (as he puts it) in something that would have been nearly £70k new.
SuperHangOn said:
7G trans and balancer shaft issues on the E350. Earlier car might make more sense in that case.
On some cars mileage is important, on others it verges on irrelevant and way below condition and maintenance in importance.
SBC brakes on the earlier car, between £900-1800 depending if you source it direct from Bosch, or use an decent indy. On some cars mileage is important, on others it verges on irrelevant and way below condition and maintenance in importance.
And it will go pretty soon at those sort of miles if it is original.
And that is the issue.
£1000 bill on a £3000 car for something that should not be considered wear and tear but is, makes you think twice.
Well current steer is on 192k, engine drives as it should, body work is fine, only issue is the suspension is well past its best but for less than £200 and a bit of time laying underneath it will go on and on and on..
Don't really understand the whole mileage debate, buy on condition and history not mileage if you ask me!
Don't really understand the whole mileage debate, buy on condition and history not mileage if you ask me!
Never had a car below 100k miles, only 20 so that will change at some point no doubt.
01 Bmw 320ci - starved on oil at 109k or so
83 cherry turbo, head gasket twice, turbo rebuilt, piston rings in 10k miles, now at 135ish
03 focus, 130k miles or something, never missed a beat except for rust and a alternator
87 defender, 185k or something, bought used off road for a while, too rattly so sold
02 range rover... onto its third gearbox now at 159k, in the last year, 2 front arms, height sensor, brake discs and pads all round, new rear brake lines, front caliper, sorted previous owners trailer lighting wiring mess (ok not so much mileage related) The man I bought it off had just had injectors and turbo changed a month prior, new airbags not long before that as well.
Range Rover is definitely suffering the miles poorly. Would prefer a car with half the mileage but also the newer engines without the dodgy gearbox.
01 Bmw 320ci - starved on oil at 109k or so
83 cherry turbo, head gasket twice, turbo rebuilt, piston rings in 10k miles, now at 135ish
03 focus, 130k miles or something, never missed a beat except for rust and a alternator
87 defender, 185k or something, bought used off road for a while, too rattly so sold
02 range rover... onto its third gearbox now at 159k, in the last year, 2 front arms, height sensor, brake discs and pads all round, new rear brake lines, front caliper, sorted previous owners trailer lighting wiring mess (ok not so much mileage related) The man I bought it off had just had injectors and turbo changed a month prior, new airbags not long before that as well.
Range Rover is definitely suffering the miles poorly. Would prefer a car with half the mileage but also the newer engines without the dodgy gearbox.
Had two cars go past 200k
First was an S70 T5 Volvo. Sold at 221k still on original turbo, exhaust and clutch (not to mention everything else that wasn't a wear item). Had only had suspension bushes, balljoints and a throttle body (known issue on them).
Second was an Audi A8 4.2 Quattro Sport. 212k when sold. Had a full exhaust replacement, front suspension arms replaced 3 or 4 times (known issue on them), brakes and pads etc, and a waterpump.
Again totally reliable.
I would have happily run both those cars far longer but required something different as my needs changed. Pity really as looking back they were superb cars.
First was an S70 T5 Volvo. Sold at 221k still on original turbo, exhaust and clutch (not to mention everything else that wasn't a wear item). Had only had suspension bushes, balljoints and a throttle body (known issue on them).
Second was an Audi A8 4.2 Quattro Sport. 212k when sold. Had a full exhaust replacement, front suspension arms replaced 3 or 4 times (known issue on them), brakes and pads etc, and a waterpump.
Again totally reliable.
I would have happily run both those cars far longer but required something different as my needs changed. Pity really as looking back they were superb cars.
scherzkeks said:
BigBen said:
The taxi company my employer uses run a fleet of E-class Mercs, typically they are run from new until between 300 - 400k miles before disposal. They feel and look like new cars, even the 300k mile one I was picked up in last Thursday evening. They are washed approx every 3 days and maintained fastidiously which helps but still pretty impressive.
In Germany you still see W124 taxis in most major cities, they have to be on half a million miles or more by now.
Ben
Most of the E-Class taxis I see here in German metro areas W212, maybe the odd W211. That said, they really are built well (as are all the models from the C on up) and they do massive mileage. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a diesel with 100k on it, so long as everything checked out.In Germany you still see W124 taxis in most major cities, they have to be on half a million miles or more by now.
Ben
gizlaroc said:
SuperHangOn said:
7G trans and balancer shaft issues on the E350. Earlier car might make more sense in that case.
On some cars mileage is important, on others it verges on irrelevant and way below condition and maintenance in importance.
SBC brakes on the earlier car, between £900-1800 depending if you source it direct from Bosch, or use an decent indy. On some cars mileage is important, on others it verges on irrelevant and way below condition and maintenance in importance.
And it will go pretty soon at those sort of miles if it is original.
And that is the issue.
£1000 bill on a £3000 car for something that should not be considered wear and tear but is, makes you think twice.
As everyone said... Buy on condition. I think high mileage is not a problem, depends how those miles where done, a 5 year old car with 150k probably done most on motorway so engine loaded less as all the other components, 80k in town can be much worse.
I sell my cars when I am bored of them not because repairing them is not cost effective. In most cases it is cost effective. For example if your shed is worth £2500 and the turbo goes but everything else is reasonable for me it is worth spending 1000 to put it right because if I put a new turbo that will last quite few years and you probably can't get anything like what you are replacing for 95 quid a month...
among others I have a BMW 320d from 2005, bought it cheap with 57k 7 years ago and has 165k now. If I were to replace it for. a 3 year old one it probably would cost me 20 grand depending on spec. There is no way I will spend a quarter of that in my current car in the next 5 years so why bother changing, on top of normal consumables. Unless off course I want to be in a more modern car with better feel good interior, etc I don't see where it is not economical to repair this car. For the use I have of this car I can't get anything cheaper that would warrant a change so I am keeping this one until rust comes along and needs to be scrapped. I reckon I can take it to 2020.
I sell my cars when I am bored of them not because repairing them is not cost effective. In most cases it is cost effective. For example if your shed is worth £2500 and the turbo goes but everything else is reasonable for me it is worth spending 1000 to put it right because if I put a new turbo that will last quite few years and you probably can't get anything like what you are replacing for 95 quid a month...
among others I have a BMW 320d from 2005, bought it cheap with 57k 7 years ago and has 165k now. If I were to replace it for. a 3 year old one it probably would cost me 20 grand depending on spec. There is no way I will spend a quarter of that in my current car in the next 5 years so why bother changing, on top of normal consumables. Unless off course I want to be in a more modern car with better feel good interior, etc I don't see where it is not economical to repair this car. For the use I have of this car I can't get anything cheaper that would warrant a change so I am keeping this one until rust comes along and needs to be scrapped. I reckon I can take it to 2020.
gizlaroc said:
I have just been offered a facelift MY07 E350 estate with 103k miles on it for £3800.
If I went to a 2003 E320 estate with 190k miles on it I would be paying about £800 less.
Why buy something which is nearly 13 years old instead of 9 years old with nearly twice the mileage to try and save £800?
I would be happy to spend £1000 on new suspension all round on the MY07 car, but would be a bit gutted to have to spend £300 on the 190k 03 plate car.
The milage makes such a huge impact on value in the UK that it becomes a spiral that is hard to get out of.
That is one hell of an offer... why is the car so cheap. it is easily worth £6k at the very minimum. If I went to a 2003 E320 estate with 190k miles on it I would be paying about £800 less.
Why buy something which is nearly 13 years old instead of 9 years old with nearly twice the mileage to try and save £800?
I would be happy to spend £1000 on new suspension all round on the MY07 car, but would be a bit gutted to have to spend £300 on the 190k 03 plate car.
The milage makes such a huge impact on value in the UK that it becomes a spiral that is hard to get out of.
I've done really well with high milers over the years. I've run a couple of Golfs, an S60, a Mondeo and a couple of others from 130-160k with very little trouble. I've currently got a 134,000 mile Puma that is a little rough around the edges cosmetically, but still a hoot to drive, steers sharply, and feels like the body will rot away long before the oily bits throw in the towel.
For me, the mileage on a car comes way below condition, service history, and if it's a private sale, how I feel about the person I'm buying it from.
For me, the mileage on a car comes way below condition, service history, and if it's a private sale, how I feel about the person I'm buying it from.
In Indonesia they don't even mention the mileage of used cars when selling, it's all done on age.
Of course condition IS taken into account, something that's shagged will be cheaper than something that isn't, for the same age, but there is literally no mention in any used car advert there that I can find of the mileage.
Labour costs there are dirt cheap, of course, but maintenance generally is limited to oil changes, so it's got to be better to buy a 10-year-old car with 50,000km on the clock than a 3-year-old one that has done 200,000km.
(Although depreciation is quite slow there, a new car costing £10,000 is around £8,000 at 2 years old, £6,000 at 5 years old, and £4,000 at 10 years old)
Of course condition IS taken into account, something that's shagged will be cheaper than something that isn't, for the same age, but there is literally no mention in any used car advert there that I can find of the mileage.
Labour costs there are dirt cheap, of course, but maintenance generally is limited to oil changes, so it's got to be better to buy a 10-year-old car with 50,000km on the clock than a 3-year-old one that has done 200,000km.
(Although depreciation is quite slow there, a new car costing £10,000 is around £8,000 at 2 years old, £6,000 at 5 years old, and £4,000 at 10 years old)
Cars can certainly now last at least a few hundred k (my cupra r is on 140k), but lets not kid ourselves that most of them drive as well as they did when new.
Dampers will be baggy and shot by 150k, limited slip diffs will no longer lock and brake calipers will also be well past their best. Yes all of these can be rectified with cash, but most owners spending pocket money don't bother.
Dampers will be baggy and shot by 150k, limited slip diffs will no longer lock and brake calipers will also be well past their best. Yes all of these can be rectified with cash, but most owners spending pocket money don't bother.
As ever it depends. These days cars are much more durable but as others have said the cost of labour makes them uneconomic to repair. A mate has just bought a Rover 75, great car with a current test, for £400. The previous owner has £2k in bills in the last year, only selling for ill health. Meanwhile my scabby Mondeo has just cost £300 for the test, no biggies, just bushes, brake pipes, brake cable, if it had needed a cambelt (it has a chain) or a clutch at the same time it would be dead by now.
Some cars are no good by 100k - I had a Vectra with leaking PAS, burning oil and on its third clutch (leaking cylinder, again) by 115k. Bye bye. My Saab had the sump gauze problem and a rattly timing chain by 90k. Neither were worth the effort.
Some cars are no good by 100k - I had a Vectra with leaking PAS, burning oil and on its third clutch (leaking cylinder, again) by 115k. Bye bye. My Saab had the sump gauze problem and a rattly timing chain by 90k. Neither were worth the effort.
scherzkeks said:
BigBen said:
The taxi company my employer uses run a fleet of E-class Mercs, typically they are run from new until between 300 - 400k miles before disposal. They feel and look like new cars, even the 300k mile one I was picked up in last Thursday evening. They are washed approx every 3 days and maintained fastidiously which helps but still pretty impressive.
In Germany you still see W124 taxis in most major cities, they have to be on half a million miles or more by now.
Ben
Most of the E-Class taxis I see here in German metro areas W212, maybe the odd W211. That said, they really are built well (as are all the models from the C on up) and they do massive mileage. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a diesel with 100k on it, so long as everything checked out.In Germany you still see W124 taxis in most major cities, they have to be on half a million miles or more by now.
Ben
cjcor said:
That is one hell of an offer... why is the car so cheap. it is easily worth £6k at the very minimum.
I'm not sure it is that cheap. There is another one on autotrader at £4500 as well. They seem to have lost a lot in the last few months.
Edit: I should have said, yeah it is a very good price, however there is another one out there at £4500 and a couple of nice facelift E280cdi's for the same money and miles etc. now.
When I was looking 3 months ago getting one sub £5k with around 100k miles on them was considered a bargain.
Edited by gizlaroc on Tuesday 29th September 21:46
My current hack is a 2004 e320cdi.
It has 194k on the clock.
It has a fully comprehensive history and it drives beautifully. Starts first time doesn't smoke,the gearbox works lovely.
Inside there are no rattles or squeaks.
The only wear and tear is the centre arm rest handle trim.
I really can't see why it won't keep on going for another 200k.
What more can you ask for for £1500
It has 194k on the clock.
It has a fully comprehensive history and it drives beautifully. Starts first time doesn't smoke,the gearbox works lovely.
Inside there are no rattles or squeaks.
The only wear and tear is the centre arm rest handle trim.
I really can't see why it won't keep on going for another 200k.
What more can you ask for for £1500
My current hack is a 2004 e320cdi.
It has 194k on the clock.
It has a fully comprehensive history and it drives beautifully. Starts first time doesn't smoke,the gearbox works lovely.
Inside there are no rattles or squeaks.
The only wear and tear is the centre arm rest handle trim.
I really can't see why it won't keep on going for another 200k.
What more can you ask for for £1500
It has 194k on the clock.
It has a fully comprehensive history and it drives beautifully. Starts first time doesn't smoke,the gearbox works lovely.
Inside there are no rattles or squeaks.
The only wear and tear is the centre arm rest handle trim.
I really can't see why it won't keep on going for another 200k.
What more can you ask for for £1500
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