Do you ever envy those rocket ships with 1WD?
Discussion
coppice said:
MWorst experiences - 50 plus Harleys blundering along at 45mph through Glencoe 2 and 3 abreast; 8 idiots crawling up Bealach Na ba at no more than 25 mph . In both cases I had to be quite ..err..assertive in making my intentions clear.
Bikers have the same problems with these groups of bad-ass dentists and accountants on their Sunday morning trundle.Wacky Racer said:
One thing:-
I can never understand what UK bikers mean about "freedom".....
Until you try it you'll never know what it's like, you only have preconceptions.I can never understand what UK bikers mean about "freedom".....
The fact is...it's a bit like a computer game. Only, drivers cannot progress past level 2 and it eventually gets boring (stuck in traffic, queuing, finding a parking space, paying for it, cyclists etc) . But on a bike you are already several levels ahead...4, 5. Bikes NEVER get boring. There are always new things to learn.
Some bikers genuinely don't seem to appreciate that a lot of people love driving, are skilled at it and have no interest whatsoever in motorbikes. Biking isn't an advanced form of driving anymore than eating cake is an advanced form of eating bread.
I can think of two things that bikes have going for them, and neither makes me want one:-
Bikes are really fast.
Even a 300bhp car is way too fast for public roads to be used at WOT. If you're using a super bike properly, you're not far from a stint in prison or hitting a tree or some idiot driver.
Bikes can filter through traffic.
Most bikers I see during a commute seem far more stressed out than drivers, even if they get there faster.
I can't say I have ever wanted to be on a motorbike. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate that other people love them. Different strokes
As a caveat to the above, I really do see the attraction of not being a big metal box. A bit like a cabriolet but times a million, I would guess, in terms of feeling part of the surroundings. Cars do insulate massively.
I can think of two things that bikes have going for them, and neither makes me want one:-
Bikes are really fast.
Even a 300bhp car is way too fast for public roads to be used at WOT. If you're using a super bike properly, you're not far from a stint in prison or hitting a tree or some idiot driver.
Bikes can filter through traffic.
Most bikers I see during a commute seem far more stressed out than drivers, even if they get there faster.
I can't say I have ever wanted to be on a motorbike. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate that other people love them. Different strokes
As a caveat to the above, I really do see the attraction of not being a big metal box. A bit like a cabriolet but times a million, I would guess, in terms of feeling part of the surroundings. Cars do insulate massively.
Biker's Nemesis said:
Tell you what you never hear motorcyclists talking about...Power to weight ratio...
...Unless they're boring w
kers that have come the DAS route and been into cars.
Ducati owners do when justifying the latest titanium clutch cover or carbon fibre purchase, that's how we make ourselves feel better about our machines ......Unless they're boring w
kers that have come the DAS route and been into cars.
Ps we all know you really want a Doocarteee
I used to like cars, I now drive a ratty old diesel Mondeo estate, because I have a big American v-twin in the garage (not a Harley). In the last three months I've put over 5,000 miles on it, most of which I seem to have got completely drenched. All 5000 of those miles has been for a purpose, not a pleasure trip (although I did enjoy nearly all of them). For me (other opinions may vary), there is nothing so sensory and tactile than using a big, loud, smelly, antisocial bike to get to places, cars now feel so sanitised and grey. Every time I have got off that bike I've got a huge grin on my face and am generally giggling like a loon.
Cars and queues don't bother me, I couldn't even get upset at the lady in the Audi that pulled her car across to try and block me from filtering when the m1 was stationary the other day.
Other road users' idiocy washes off me as the irrelevance it is - an error is made by someone else, they look a bit guilty and disappear again.
Parking is easy and free.
The wrong sort of women love the bike, especially because it vibrates like a jackhammer
I can't hear my phone
I've made some very strange but genuine friends in my time on two wheels
For those that haven't tried motorcycles, try them, but try a selection - some may like sports bikes, some may like adventure bikes, others may like cruisers. Each offers a different (but equally intense) experience.
Cars and queues don't bother me, I couldn't even get upset at the lady in the Audi that pulled her car across to try and block me from filtering when the m1 was stationary the other day.
Other road users' idiocy washes off me as the irrelevance it is - an error is made by someone else, they look a bit guilty and disappear again.
Parking is easy and free.
The wrong sort of women love the bike, especially because it vibrates like a jackhammer
I can't hear my phone
I've made some very strange but genuine friends in my time on two wheels
For those that haven't tried motorcycles, try them, but try a selection - some may like sports bikes, some may like adventure bikes, others may like cruisers. Each offers a different (but equally intense) experience.
ORD said:
I can think of two things that bikes have going for them, and neither makes me want one:-
Bikes are really fast.
Even a 300bhp car is way too fast for public roads to be used at WOT. If you're using a super bike properly, you're not far from a stint in prison or hitting a tree or some idiot driver.
Bikes can filter through traffic.
Most bikers I see during a commute seem far more stressed out than drivers, even if they get there faster.
What makes you think they're stressed? Where was that study that found motorcycle commuters arrived at work far less stressed than car drivers because traffic conditions just don't slow them down in the same way. I often see car drivers getting stressed and doing stupid things out of anger. I never feel bored or stressed riding my bike to or from work, mainly because I know I can just ride past whatever queue or roadworks are waiting for me. You're never late on a bike.Bikes are really fast.
Even a 300bhp car is way too fast for public roads to be used at WOT. If you're using a super bike properly, you're not far from a stint in prison or hitting a tree or some idiot driver.
Bikes can filter through traffic.
Most bikers I see during a commute seem far more stressed out than drivers, even if they get there faster.
As for the point about not being able to use a fast bike, don't get a fast bike then, if you don't think you could use it. I like fast bikes, but they're flexible things. You don't need to ride them flat out everywhere, just like you wouldn't with a fast car. But the attraction of having all that performance there is that it's much more usable than it is in a car. I'm not talking about riding at TT type pace, just about getting the machine working and enjoying yourself.
Fair enough on the first point. I am speaking from near-perfect ignorance
I disagree on the second point, though - there is probably an optimum speed for usability on the road and it is not a litre bike! I am not even sure that my current car isn't slightly faster than optimum (because you spend so little time at full throttle and getting the engine to sing). It must be similar on a bike - isn't it? If your bike eats 30mph increments in a second, you spend extremely little time really making it work. I may be wrong, but my experience of cars certainly isn't "The faster, the better".
I disagree on the second point, though - there is probably an optimum speed for usability on the road and it is not a litre bike! I am not even sure that my current car isn't slightly faster than optimum (because you spend so little time at full throttle and getting the engine to sing). It must be similar on a bike - isn't it? If your bike eats 30mph increments in a second, you spend extremely little time really making it work. I may be wrong, but my experience of cars certainly isn't "The faster, the better".
Difference on a bike it gathers speed so quickly you don't need miles of clear Tarmac to use the performance. If you see a procession of cars all doing 40mph you can drop it into 2nd or 3rd and nail it past, slowing to a more sensible speed once you have. Size, agility and acceleration make 1000 cc bikes really handy on the road.
wormus said:
Difference on a bike it gathers speed so quickly you don't need miles of clear Tarmac to use the performance. If you see a procession of cars all doing 40mph you can drop it into 2nd or 3rd and nail it past, slowing to a more sensible speed once you have. Size, agility and acceleration make 1000 cc bikes really handy on the road.
But addictive, licence losing etc, etcLitres bikes have much more torque than 600s and so are in many ways easier to ride. I have a 1000cc bike and would never claim to do it justice, but its very easy to ride; can be taken into town and will do 20mph through traffic, will sit on the motorway at cruising speed, or will provide one hell of a thrill on quiet back roads.
ORD said:
Fair enough on the first point. I am speaking from near-perfect ignorance
I disagree on the second point, though - there is probably an optimum speed for usability on the road and it is not a litre bike! I am not even sure that my current car isn't slightly faster than optimum (because you spend so little time at full throttle and getting the engine to sing). It must be similar on a bike - isn't it? If your bike eats 30mph increments in a second, you spend extremely little time really making it work. I may be wrong, but my experience of cars certainly isn't "The faster, the better".
With 1000cc bikes you don't have to be on it all the time you can be in Fourth doing 40mph not change gear & be into three figures & back to 40mph in no time, but you will make it work on some part of your journey.I disagree on the second point, though - there is probably an optimum speed for usability on the road and it is not a litre bike! I am not even sure that my current car isn't slightly faster than optimum (because you spend so little time at full throttle and getting the engine to sing). It must be similar on a bike - isn't it? If your bike eats 30mph increments in a second, you spend extremely little time really making it work. I may be wrong, but my experience of cars certainly isn't "The faster, the better".
On my commute there are three points when I get to lay it into a certain set of bends & make full use of 2nd & 3rd, this is because the performance is so accessible & also because you don't need miles of free tarmac to gain access to it.
Not until this last year or so.
A new member of our management team came on board, and has the same daily M1 commute from MK/ Luton area to Watford that most of my colleagues endure.
It's a big engined (1000cc I believe) Jap sports bike (Yamaha/ Kawasaki or something). Yes, I know f*ck all about bikes.
He always arrives early or on-time, and is never frazzled when the M1 is f*cked. He doesn't bother looking at traffic updates before heading home, and therefore never hangs around the office hoping traffic will start moving.
He also seems to enjoy every journey, often telling stories about how he had a great drive to work in the morning, and looking forward to the blast home.
A boring reason to envy those 1WD rocket ships, but he seems to have genuinely cracked it as far as I can tell.
I enjoy going really fast, don't mind a bit of risk, and don't care about being cold/ wet, so maybe I should consider getting a bike licence. Definitely the best bang-for-buck performance 'vehicle', but not sure I have the ability to do a proper sports bike justice.
A new member of our management team came on board, and has the same daily M1 commute from MK/ Luton area to Watford that most of my colleagues endure.
It's a big engined (1000cc I believe) Jap sports bike (Yamaha/ Kawasaki or something). Yes, I know f*ck all about bikes.
He always arrives early or on-time, and is never frazzled when the M1 is f*cked. He doesn't bother looking at traffic updates before heading home, and therefore never hangs around the office hoping traffic will start moving.
He also seems to enjoy every journey, often telling stories about how he had a great drive to work in the morning, and looking forward to the blast home.
A boring reason to envy those 1WD rocket ships, but he seems to have genuinely cracked it as far as I can tell.
I enjoy going really fast, don't mind a bit of risk, and don't care about being cold/ wet, so maybe I should consider getting a bike licence. Definitely the best bang-for-buck performance 'vehicle', but not sure I have the ability to do a proper sports bike justice.
ORD said:
Fair enough on the first point. I am speaking from near-perfect ignorance
I disagree on the second point, though - there is probably an optimum speed for usability on the road and it is not a litre bike! I am not even sure that my current car isn't slightly faster than optimum (because you spend so little time at full throttle and getting the engine to sing). It must be similar on a bike - isn't it? If your bike eats 30mph increments in a second, you spend extremely little time really making it work. I may be wrong, but my experience of cars certainly isn't "The faster, the better".
It depends what you want from a machine. If you really want to spend time wringing it out to make it go fast, then you don't have to go with a litre bike. Even something like a CBF600 feels really quick and usable on a commute compared to most cars. Even 'slow' bikes will overtake and fly past traffic with ease. Something like a Hornet or Fazer 600cc, with a reputation for revs, I could imagine you'd find plenty of opportunity to really work them hard.I disagree on the second point, though - there is probably an optimum speed for usability on the road and it is not a litre bike! I am not even sure that my current car isn't slightly faster than optimum (because you spend so little time at full throttle and getting the engine to sing). It must be similar on a bike - isn't it? If your bike eats 30mph increments in a second, you spend extremely little time really making it work. I may be wrong, but my experience of cars certainly isn't "The faster, the better".
Not that you don't on a litre bike, mind. They way they pick up and shed speed, you'll find you don't need miles of empty road to make them work. Even if you just use the power to get from contact position to contact position betweeb overtakes, or when overtaking, you're never far removed from the fact you've got plenty of power should you need it.
Another thing that riders often say about litre bikes, and it's certainly true of mine with it's triple, is that the torque makes them pleasant to ride. You've got acceleration and grunt wherever you are in the gearbox, pretty much irrespective of speed, and huge midrange and top end power too. Saying that you don't feel you could do one justice because you're not Kevin Schwantz is a weak argument, I bet you wouldn't turn down a drive in an R500 Caterham because you're not Walter Rohrl.
daveofedinburgh said:
Not until this last year or so.
A new member of our management team came on board, and has the same daily M1 commute from MK/ Luton area to Watford that most of my colleagues endure.
It's a big engined (1000cc I believe) Jap sports bike (Yamaha/ Kawasaki or something). Yes, I know f*ck all about bikes.
He always arrives early or on-time, and is never frazzled when the M1 is f*cked. He doesn't bother looking at traffic updates before heading home, and therefore never hangs around the office hoping traffic will start moving.
He also seems to enjoy every journey, often telling stories about how he had a great drive to work in the morning, and looking forward to the blast home.
A boring reason to envy those 1WD rocket ships, but he seems to have genuinely cracked it as far as I can tell.
I enjoy going really fast, don't mind a bit of risk, and don't care about being cold/ wet, so maybe I should consider getting a bike licence. Definitely the best bang-for-buck performance 'vehicle', but not sure I have the ability to do a proper sports bike justice.
Nothing wrong with a boring reason to have a bike, most riders can't do a 'proper' sports bike justice either.... A new member of our management team came on board, and has the same daily M1 commute from MK/ Luton area to Watford that most of my colleagues endure.
It's a big engined (1000cc I believe) Jap sports bike (Yamaha/ Kawasaki or something). Yes, I know f*ck all about bikes.
He always arrives early or on-time, and is never frazzled when the M1 is f*cked. He doesn't bother looking at traffic updates before heading home, and therefore never hangs around the office hoping traffic will start moving.
He also seems to enjoy every journey, often telling stories about how he had a great drive to work in the morning, and looking forward to the blast home.
A boring reason to envy those 1WD rocket ships, but he seems to have genuinely cracked it as far as I can tell.
I enjoy going really fast, don't mind a bit of risk, and don't care about being cold/ wet, so maybe I should consider getting a bike licence. Definitely the best bang-for-buck performance 'vehicle', but not sure I have the ability to do a proper sports bike justice.
I got my bike licence about 7 years ago and my workhorse bike (a 1000cc unfaired Suzuki) spends more time on the motorway at non-licence losing speeds than it does on the idealised twist A roads that rarely exist....
The thing is, very occasionally in the car, you would get a journey where eveything just lined up - good weather, good roads, limited traffic. These were the memorable drives, probably because they were a rare event. Nearly every time I get off the bike, I feel like I did after those drives, even after a schlep up the M1.
Get that licence and enjoy!
Cheers,
Tom
Lots of excellent posts and genuinely informative.
As for the 'you wouldn't turn down a Caterham 500', I would. I would turn down any super fast car because I just don't think faster is better. I can see that this might be a bit different for bikes (because you can overtake even more and because gaining and shedding speed is fast), but the primary reason that I think I wouldn't ever want a 458 S or 991 Turbo S is speed limits. I don't actually want a vehicle that will be doing 120 if I squeeze the throttle at 40 for an overtake.
I think I would definitely want a revvy smaller engined bike, though, assuming that tastes for car engines cross over into tastes for bike engines. I don't like torque-heavy engines. I think even the NA lump in my car is a bit too torquey, and turbo lumps bore me stless because it feels like there is no point revving high (although there usually is in fact).
As for the 'you wouldn't turn down a Caterham 500', I would. I would turn down any super fast car because I just don't think faster is better. I can see that this might be a bit different for bikes (because you can overtake even more and because gaining and shedding speed is fast), but the primary reason that I think I wouldn't ever want a 458 S or 991 Turbo S is speed limits. I don't actually want a vehicle that will be doing 120 if I squeeze the throttle at 40 for an overtake.
I think I would definitely want a revvy smaller engined bike, though, assuming that tastes for car engines cross over into tastes for bike engines. I don't like torque-heavy engines. I think even the NA lump in my car is a bit too torquey, and turbo lumps bore me s
tless because it feels like there is no point revving high (although there usually is in fact). Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff