RE: Peugeot 308 GTI: Review

[Gatefold]

BrownBottle said:

Gatefold said:

According to Peugeot's own website it is 4.82kg/hp, which for the 250bhp version works out as 1205kg.

I am really impressed by this, with this and the facelift 508, Peugeot have actually started making understated, handsome cars with no weird detailing to ruin the lines. Certainly closer to the fond 1983-1998 Pininfarina era.


ETA - 306 GTi-6/Rallye was 1215/1163kg respectively.

If that's correct and it is lighter than a 306 I'll be very impressed.

The one thing that was putting me off was the small engine capacity but if that is one of the major contributors to the light weight then it can only be a good thing particularly for the handling, especially in a FWD car with most of the weight at the front.

They should be lauded if they've managed to reverse twenty years worth of bloat. PSA (allegedly) used to get their performance figures with two passengers and 40kg of luggage, so they older models might be affected by this. But to be within 100kg with modern tech, and up to 100bhp more than the gti-6 is worthy of some praise.

[Escort Si-130]

Its not all about power to weight ratio (we not in the 1970's), aerodynamics, suspension setup and brakes also play a major role; in making track times.
Good car though

[lightthefuse]

Again the steering wheel/dash comes up as a show-stopper. It's a typical French bonkers thing, and it's absolutely Marmite. Wheel goes under the instrument cluster if positioned correctly, causing no sight issues unless you are a real short-arse.

Personally, I adored it in my 208, you won't be able to flick another wheel more quickly unless it's on a kart. Took some time to adjust back to conventional steering wheels after chopping it, they all seem like you're steering a destroyer afterwards. The only thing (and I don't know enough about the 308 GTI's spec to know if it's there) is the dullness of the electric power steering, but that's becoming more and more unavoidable in cars.

I'd love to give this a blast round a track, but buy one? Think I've been bitten enough by the French bug now and have properly worked it out of my system. Not enough here to tempt me back either, despite the impressive bhp per litre.

[Dan Trent]

Evening all,

The 1,205kg figure is the one in the tech spec we were supplied with on the launch and in the supplied tech info and - we were told - is minus driver but including a full tank of fuel. For the comparisons with the Golf GTI and R I had to take VW's quoted weights (EU, fluids and including 75kg driver/luggage), add 30kg for five-door and then subtract the 75kg.

So...

308 GTI - 1,205kg (fuelled, no driver) and 224hp/tonne
Clio 220 - 1,204kg (fuelled, no driver)
Golf GTI - 1,351kg with driver, +30kg for five-door, -75kg = 1,306kg and 168hp/tonne (bear in mind I didn't add the +31kg or +£995 for the GTI Performance with the VAQ diff which arguably is required to make it a like-for-like comparison)
Golf R - 1,476kg, +30kg for five-door, -75kg = 1,436kg and 209hp/tonne

Obviously we didn't get the car on a set of scales so we'll have to take Peugeot's stats as bona fide but it's clear the Golf baseline kerbweight can be increased by c. 60kg simply by going to five-door and VAQ diff to bring it in line with the 308 GTI 270hp. I've only got a hard copy of the pricelist thus far so can't share it for comparison with VW's but there don't *seem* to be any significant weight gains via options but I'd need to go through it forensically.

Interesting to hear about the acceleration calculator - can't verify that as yet but clearly Golf also has option of DSG which takes two tenths out of the equivalent manual.

Hope that helps - carry on!

Cheers,

Dan

[Atmospheric]

tonyb1968 said:

Atmospheric said:

Is that price fully loaded?

Going by what Peugeot has been bringing out af late, it probably will be, unlike the competition which will actually cost considerably more to spec up.

This is my point. So the cost of it, if true, is reasonable.

[RoverP6B]

DoctorX said:

That is the most hideous dashboard ever and would be enough to stop me buying one (or a 208) no matter what it drove like.

Agreed, and I'm not a particularly small bloke. I sat in a 308 at Beaulieu and I simply could not find a seat/wheel height combination which enabled an unobstructed view of the instrumentation.

Also, at nearly 170bhp/litre, that little turbo motor will go pop just outside the warranty and probably use more fuel and oil in the meantime than a 270bhp 3-litre N/A V6 would...

[BoyRacerChaser]

God I hate Peugeot's they are terrible cars. The 106, 306 and 205 are exceptions in terms of driver feedback and fun but they just have no idea how to make a quality car that lasts. After 30k miles the gear stick feels like you are stirring porridge and the car is beginning to fall to pieces around the engine (which are actually very good).

Same as all little french cars. The weight is impressive (if its true) but that's just because the 200kg or so it has less than the golf is precisely the lack of quality I mentioned earlier.

It shocks me that someone can continue making drivel and actually run a business.

As a punter who knew nothing I have owned many small french cars in the past, and although they did provide me with some fun, the build quality is just shocking. Once you have moved on to German and Japanese cars of the same ilk and era, you would be bonkers to attempt ownership of a Peugeot again.

There are some exceptions, but all in all, the statements above are true. The cars depreciate like nobodys business and have the mechanical qualities of chocolate.
Drive a 20 year old Honda back to back with a 20 year old peugeot and you will figure out what I mean.
The Honda still feels tight and direct.

[Kawasicki]

Dan Trent said:

Evening all,

The 1,205kg figure is the one in the tech spec we were supplied with on the launch and in the supplied tech info and - we were told - is minus driver but including a full tank of fuel. For the comparisons with the Golf GTI and R I had to take VW's quoted weights (EU, fluids and including 75kg driver/luggage), add 30kg for five-door and then subtract the 75kg.

So...

308 GTI - 1,205kg (fuelled, no driver) and 224hp/tonne
Clio 220 - 1,204kg (fuelled, no driver)
Golf GTI - 1,351kg with driver, +30kg for five-door, -75kg = 1,306kg and 168hp/tonne (bear in mind I didn't add the +31kg or +£995 for the GTI Performance with the VAQ diff which arguably is required to make it a like-for-like comparison)
Golf R - 1,476kg, +30kg for five-door, -75kg = 1,436kg and 209hp/tonne

Obviously we didn't get the car on a set of scales so we'll have to take Peugeot's stats as bona fide but it's clear the Golf baseline kerbweight can be increased by c. 60kg simply by going to five-door and VAQ diff to bring it in line with the 308 GTI 270hp. I've only got a hard copy of the pricelist thus far so can't share it for comparison with VW's but there don't *seem* to be any significant weight gains via options but I'd need to go through it forensically.

Interesting to hear about the acceleration calculator - can't verify that as yet but clearly Golf also has option of DSG which takes two tenths out of the equivalent manual.

Hope that helps - carry on!

Cheers,

Dan

Auto Motor und Sport stuck a 308 GT 5 door on the scales a few months back. 1330 kg.

It's difficult to see how they have lost 125kg for the GTI.

Just out of interest they weighed a Golf GTI. 1369 kg.

[tonyb1968]

Kawasicki said:

Auto Motor und Sport stuck a 308 GT 5 door on the scales a few months back. 1330 kg.

It's difficult to see how they have lost 125kg for the GTI.

Just out of interest they weighed a Golf GTI. 1369 kg.

So the figures are spot on then ( for a 3 door golf) and pretty much correct for the GT.
You need to look at the way manufacturers define weight, VW gives you 2 figures, Peugeot 3, those being totally empty (kerb weight), mass in service and gross vehicle.

[Frimley111R]

Looks lovely, but it also just looks like a top spec 'normal' model. Bit like the Golfs. Shame really.

[Dan Trent]

Kawasicki said:

Auto Motor und Sport stuck a 308 GT 5 door on the scales a few months back. 1330 kg.

It's difficult to see how they have lost 125kg for the GTI.

Just out of interest they weighed a Golf GTI. 1369 kg.

I don't have a copy of Auto Motor & Sport to hand but do you know what they add for weight? And what spec the Golf was? Like I said, could be +/-60kg at least depending on door count and whether or not it has the VAQ system.

As mentioned, we were told 1,205kg is fuelled but less driver so if you add the standard 75kg for EU driver/luggage combo that gets you to 1,280kg against the Golf's comparable 1,351kg (1,381kg for five-door) published weight. Add the VAQ and the difference still equates to 100kg or so.

I'll be the first to admit comparing weights when manufacturers quote based on different standards is a difficult one but I hope you'll see I applied due diligence to trying to make it comparable. People mock the supercar makers for quoting dry weights but at least then you know you are comparing like with like and can see the relative differences without wondering whether you're including a driver, fuel, luggage or whatever.

Cheers,

Dan

[blearyeyedboy]

jontbone said:

I think the numbers could be wrong too, the 0-60 calculator I use has been pretty accurate to date

Sorry, but outside of a certain range it under-estimates 0-60 times for very powerful or very light cars.

In a set range, such as for a Mk5 Golf GTi or BMW 330i, it works very well. But once FWD cars become more powerful it loses accuracy. For example, it would suggest that a new Civic Type R should take 5.06 seconds to get to 60mph. Once you reach the limits of how much a tyre can grip, it's harder to go quicker in a FWD car. In fairness to its creator though, he acknowledges as such on his website.

I say this because we shouldn't beat up Peugeot for not matching the figures given by a calculator that wasn't really designed with modern powerful FWD hatches in mind.

Back to the 308 GTi...

I'm trying to pitch where it sits in a group of hot hatches. I'm picturing something with similar comfort to a Focus ST, but with more poke and a proper LSD. Is that a fair reflection, Dan?

I'd be quite interested in one now that my current steed is ageing. Attract very little attention, have some fun, have 5 doors to keep it useful for family duties. I could be sold to, I'm sure.

(Edited for rubbish punctuation)

Edited by blearyeyedboy on Friday 2nd October 10:47

[tonyb1968]

Lets try to put a few things straight here.

0-60 times, for people with big ego's. try 30-130 or 60-100 which are much better real life examples of performance.
We could go on about FWD v RWD v AWD, each has advantages, the AWD having the best off the line traction so will be quicker 0-60.
RWD being seen as a more "pure" performance car but still all your power to 2 wheels.
FWD, well never going to be the best 0-60 due to physics, and it doesnt really bother me.

The 170bhp per ltr from a 1.6ltr engine.
OMG, the engine will implode after 10k miles, it will drink fuel and oil, it will be unreliable etc, oh please, all the RCZ R owners I know with this engine fitted have no excessive oil or fuel (well fuel if you want to have a bit of fun) issues, the only 1 issue is 1 of the guys out in Germany who has put 37k miles on his R in the first year, a coil pack started playing up, considering that most of his driving is in excess of 130mph on the Autobahn and he likes keeping the car near its 155mph limit, thats not bad, oh and he has no oil consumption issues either (and still pulls over 20mpg!).

The dash, yes its weird, of course no doubt the position of the accelerator, brake and clutch confused people also before it became the norm, but someone has to do a design change for it to happen (doesnt mean it will, the smaller steering wheel is actually quite good, especially in my 208 where I have no issues seeing the speedo, shame about the stalks....)
Rear seating, not going to be the best but for a growing family, a more mature GTI without the "kick down the front door" factor (Note Focus RS/Golf R will and do suffer this, well not the mk2, you just fart near it and it unlocks itself and you can drive it away, lets hope Ford improve the security on the Mk3 FRS).

My only concern(s) for the 308 GTI are the steering input (I don't like the hybrid/electric steering on modern cars), its initial price (I feel there is a bit of bargaining to be done but it will be fully loaded compared to the competition, ie SEAT 280 which ends up stupidly expensive when adding the options), the depreciation, which will be higher than the other cars in its class.

What I have no issues with are the build quality, much better than 20 years ago, the fuel consumption (and the fact some of those cars it will be facing can only use 98 ron fuel, this will be 270ps on 95 ron), running costs,
reliability (yes it is french, no its not unreliable, go VW/Audi for that as those are the cars I see mostly broken down on the hard shoulder of the motorway's I drive up and down on a regular basis, and they are the newer
cars, not older).

I will mention that I have owned a few Peugeot's in the past, (like 12 of them, 2 of which I still own), this includes cars like the 309 GTI, 306 S16, 306 GTI-6 (x3) the last GTI-6 having 85k on the clock, looked after extremely well by the woman owner and felt as tight as it did when it came out of the factory, then moved on to Subaru's in 2000, Peugeot didn't really
have a replacement for the GTI-6, nearly making a mistake and going back to Peugeot in 2003 with the 206 GTI 180, I purchased a 2003 Subaru STI Spec C instead, close shave, had a couple more in between that and 2014, went back to Peugeot after 14 years because I fancied an RCZ, ended up with an RCZ R, have absolutely no issues or regrets on moving from a 2003 STI Spec C Limited to the RCZ R, the R is just better at everything over the Subaru (except off the line traction, see above).

Peugeot are actually bringing some decent performance cars out, yes a nice 2ltr engine would be good but the 1.6ltr isnt bad, they are not class leaders (yet), but not far off.
If the 308 R gets the go ahead (oh yes please!) then a 4wd 500bhp monster could be calling, now that would be interesting!

[Kawasicki]

Dan Trent said:

I don't have a copy of Auto Motor & Sport to hand but do you know what they add for weight? And what spec the Golf was? Like I said, could be +/-60kg at least depending on door count and whether or not it has the VAQ system.

As mentioned, we were told 1,205kg is fuelled but less driver so if you add the standard 75kg for EU driver/luggage combo that gets you to 1,280kg against the Golf's comparable 1,351kg (1,381kg for five-door) published weight. Add the VAQ and the difference still equates to 100kg or so.

I'll be the first to admit comparing weights when manufacturers quote based on different standards is a difficult one but I hope you'll see I applied due diligence to trying to make it comparable. People mock the supercar makers for quoting dry weights but at least then you know you are comparing like with like and can see the relative differences without wondering whether you're including a driver, fuel, luggage or whatever.

Cheers,

Dan

Dan...I'm impressed with your efforts. I just remain massively sceptical of 1205kg fully fueled. As far as I know Auto Motor und Sport measure the car using DIN standard, which is fully fueled without driver. So a 208 GT seems to be 125kg heavier than a 208 GTI.

Anyway I will wait for it to be weighed. For all we know, the Peugeot weight could be without aircon and with a tiny fuel tank...both of which can be changed at no cost.

[Dion20vt]

These should sell well IF Peugeot offer decent PCP deals like the "just add fuel" on their other models.

[Tuvra]

tonyb1968 said:

Peugeot are actually bringing some decent performance cars out, yes a nice 2ltr engine would be good but the 1.6ltr isnt bad, they are not class leaders (yet), but not far off.
If the 308 R gets the go ahead (oh yes please!) then a 4wd 500bhp monster could be calling, now that would be interesting!

They are nowhere near class leaders and never will be.

They never will make a 308 R, if they do, it certainly won't be 500bhp, probably more like 350bhp and then it will cost 25-30% more than a similar spec Focus RS.

Peugeot did exactly the same with the RCZ, it was never the car it could have been, offered poor value for money and terrible residuals.

For me, to even have a sniff of doing well, this Peugeot needed at least 300bhp, 4x4 or a chassis everyone could rave about and cost less than the forthcoming Focus RS i.e. £28,940.00

[Dan Trent]

Kawasicki said:

Dan...I'm impressed with your efforts. I just remain massively sceptical of 1205kg fully fueled. As far as I know Auto Motor und Sport measure the car using DIN standard, which is fully fueled without driver. So a 208 GT seems to be 125kg heavier than a 208 GTI.

Anyway I will wait for it to be weighed. For all we know, the Peugeot weight could be without aircon and with a tiny fuel tank...both of which can be changed at no cost.

Ha, thanks! Of course, as we all know, car manufacturers are always bang on with their stat- ... oh ... hang on!

And...

blearyeyedboy said:

I'm trying to pitch where it sits in a group of hot hatches. I'm picturing something with similar comfort to a Focus ST, but with more poke and a proper LSD. Is that a fair reflection, Dan?

That's not a bad conclusion, though I'd say it's a little more compliant and 'flowy' than the ST, which feels quite burly and tied down until you reach the ragged edge where it really comes alive.

Cheers,

Dan

[Atmospheric]

Good article. More of these please.

[worsy]

With regard the pricing, what will be the likely sales price though. I bought the wife a vanilla 5 door GTI and paid 23.5k for it. Stacked against the rrp the discounts from places like carwow are pretty good.

[LiamB]

jjr1 said:

I drove a 308 diesel hire car recently and absolutely loved it. Very comfortable and reasonable fun for a basic low powered hatch.

The only weird thing about it was the impossibly small steering wheel? It really is the strangest thing !

So one of these 308's with a decent hot engine sounds brill !!!

+1 I am driving one around at the moment and the steering wheel really gets on my nerves! That and the cruise control is way too confusing to even contemplate using

This one seems like it'd be good fun to drive!