RE: PistonHeads/Adrian Flux partnership

[muckyman]

Rtype said:

Your comments clearly show your lack of understanding, so don't go writing about it. Each broker has a TOBA (Terms of Business) if you agree to that, you cannot complain about charges it is given to you up front, via e-mail & via post. You have a 14 day distance based "cooling off period" if you choose to not cancel in this period, you should have read about the charges . There is the first clear massive gape in your & everyone elses knowledge. but lemme guess. "No-one ever reads that so I shouldnt be held accountable for it!" haha. I see this everyday, if you don't like the charges, read your documentation.

Your comments clearly show a lack of understanding of what is being discussed here.
I do read the documents and understand the charges.
What I do disagree with is the blatant rip off charged for the premium applied to car changes.
eg
Car 1 - modified car with premium of £500 for 1yr cover.
Sold this mid policy for...
Car 2 - unmodified low power car bought for short term use while I look for replacement to 1st car. No increase in premium but a £50 admin charge for change of details (fair enough as that is in the T&Cs)
Car 3 - sold car 2 and got an unmodified higher power car (lower BHP than car 1) and got a premium increase of £400 for the remaining 3 months of my policy. Explanation was that this was an increase over car 2 and thats what they base it on, without taking into account the original premium paid for the higher powered modified car I originally took the policy on.
That smacks of money making scamming to me.
If thats the policy, why didn't they reduce and refund part of my initial premium when I changed from car 1 to car 2?

[crispyshark]

JordanAtFlux said:

crispyshark said:

Jordan,

Thanks for your response on behalf of Flux.

I think what myself and many others feel a little disillusioned about is that you bill yourselves as ‘specialists’ when actually you are little more than a middle man/comparison site that has access to many insurance schemes. The people who answer our calls are not facultative risk underwriters or ‘specialists’, they are call centre workers who may or may not know much about our respective steeds. They input data onto a strict pricing tool (set by actual underwriters who provide you insurance capacity).

Ultimately they are bound by a computer system and will have little opportunity to discuss an individual’s insurance with a proper underwriter. It does however have to be highlighted that there are other actual ‘specialist’ insurers that clearly have broad underwriting authority allowed under their binder and can set a premium themselves.

Your business is mass through flow/frequency of business….you know that for every disgruntled customer on here or any other forum, that you will have 100 more who will continue to use you and not question your pricing or cover….that’s the market. At the end of the day, you pays your money, you takes your choice.

Things that annoy we the ‘enthusiasts’, especially when you are pedaling you wares on an forum/site like this

1) Don’t patronise us….we aren’t stupid and we know how your company works….you are a glorified Go Compare with a big marketing budget
2) Acknowledge there are others who do ‘specialise’ in certain makes/models and modifications and will consider and underwrite on a risk by risk basis (basically, not you guys who only want to write vanilla risks) and don’t charge astronomical admin fees
3) Be transparent about minimum premiums and discounts….and not just in small print
4) Don’t jump in on threads as ‘Adrian Flux’ on forums where people are asking for advice or introducing themselves….I’ve seen this on scoobynet a few times with as bad a reaction as this

Regards the “We don’t like Imprezas” issue…yes, that’s what one of your employees said to me over the phone. What I found hard to get my head around is that you were willing to insure a Boxster S for circa £20k in the same circumstances with the same driver for far less than £1k. I understand geographical and theft rating but surely quoting over £1k for an unmodified Impreza worth £2,800 when you have charged so little for the soft top Porsche, would encourage you to go back to underwriters and question this or even look to find a better provider/insurer for Subarus….if you are a ‘specialist’ that is?

Hi Crispyshark,

Thanks for the comments.

You are absolutely right in saying that we are an intermediary, we work on behalf of various underwriters. What separates us from your generic comparison site/every day broker is that we have specialist bespoke insurance schemes that no other insurer has access to. This gives us the upper hand in terms of what we can cover, and at what price. This means that us being a glorified Go Compare couldn't be further from the truth. Go-Compare amongst other comparison sites are aggregators - we're not an aggregator.

We've all heard of insurers that will not cover any modifications at all, whereas we can cover virtually anything with wheels (And even without wheels believe it or not!)- I understand there have been times where we've had to turn down particular cases where we don't have a market. This is not always down to the particular vehicle that we've been asked to cover. Every single detail that is provided to us is forming the risk - I know you guys aren't stupid and already know this though.

We also have numerous in house management which have their own schemes with underwriters which means yes they literally have the 'pen' to write up what ever they wish to do so. These are highly trained underwriters with a wealth of knowledge and often 25+ years of experience. Just because we have enter a clients details into the computer does not mean this is the end of the line, certain risks will not produce any results from our already existing schemes so we refer individual cases to both our in house underwriters and also directly on to a number of underwriters to ensure we are doing everything we can do provide the most competitive quotations.

The underwriters we work with absolutely have minimum premiums we have to adhere to - A number of our in house underwriters have no minimum premiums, however of course this doesn't go to say that they are going to underwrite the risk. If an underwriter politely says 'Thanks, but no thanks' then that's that. It's how insurance works, if the risk to the underwriter isn't attractive, they are either going to turn it down or offer a rate which lessens the risk to them.

Regarding administration fees, we are very transparent about this and have to be for obvious FCA regulations. Our administration fee is £25 which is read out in our FCA script every time a policy is taken out. Any other additional premiums are what the underwriter charges dependant on what the change is, and we will always provide a breakdown of charges upon request.

Without seeing the details regarding your issue on the Impreza issue I will struggle to make a comment, if you wish to DM me the details then I'll happily trace this and try to establish what the issue was. Unfortunately Imprezas are notoriously difficult to insure full stop, this is not just with ourselves. They have extremely high claim ratios, high theft ratios too. This is across the board however and we still underwrite the risk individually so it really is case dependant as to whether or not we will be able to compete.

I've said this before and I will stand by it, we are not always going to be competitive - I get that. I'm human too and haven't always worked in insurance. We won't ever compete on every occasion (Although we'd obviously love to!)

What I can say though is we're human beings, the large majority of employees are enthusiasts themselves (Our car park somedays will confirm this!) and we will hold our hands up when we've messed up.

I personally put a lot of effort into talking to members on forums, I am a member of various in my personal time too. I can assure you that if there is a case that anyone would like investigating then we will do it and try to resolve things amicably.

I hope the above is of some help and I'd welcome any further constructive comments.

Jordan

Jordan,

Again, thanks for your response and we do appreciate you guys are human too.

Re: the schemes you 'exclusively' have access to, yes that maybe be true but you know as well as I that there will be other insurers offering very similar products to another intermediary and that will also be 'exclusive'. It's a standard marketing tool. Anyhow, let's not split hairs.

Personally I've never spoken to one of your 'underwriters' so I can't comment, I imagine they are dealing with bigger clients.

I'd be happy to discuss the Impreza issue over the phone if you DM me. The kicker for me was that it was the 3rd unrelated 'problem' I had had when dealing with you as an insurance provider (which seems to be echoed by others) and that's why I will find it very hard to deal with you again.

[Rtype]

crispyshark said:

Rtype said:

crispyshark said:

Rtype said:

St John Smythe said:

ZOLLAR said:

crispyshark said:

Rtype said:

Not a flux employee by any means. Just a chartered member of the insurance industry, still amazed at how thick you people really are

From one Insurance professional to another....you just won 'bellend of the thread' for that one! Congrats! Mega lolz, smiley face.

Indeed, from another Insurance professional you would think that he's aware that insurance is primarily risk based.
An expensive insurance policy doesn't guarantee great service or cover, likewise you can obtain great cover for low premiums.

Oh it's that 'chartered' chap again

Yawn, heard it all before chaps. Can clearly tell personal lines when you read comments as above. Next thing St John Smythe will be saying is he only buys it to make it say yes on a computer.

The reason you all moan about paying it is because it is a requirement and for all intensive purposes you cannot see an immediate benefit for your money & hate doing it because you are told to by law. Then you all moan when your product isn't what you think it is.

Long & short of it is if you ask a Chubb, ZPC or Hiscox client about their "experience" when needed, they wouldn't shop budget - Unless your tighter than a nuns proverbial.

Edited by Rtype on Friday 2nd October 15:56

Get a grip! It's pretty easy to work out a 'burn cost' i.e. what you pay vs the losses you've had and the value of the car you are insuring.

People have access to this information these days.

At the end of the day an insurance provider's shop window is its claims department and its servicing and I think what most people are complaining about is the inconsistency of service, pricing and unreasonable fees and unjustified premium corrections/pro rata charges (when compared to others).

Adrian Flux do not insure the risk...they are a middle man. The insurers do not set their 'fees'.

No one is moaning about 'paying', what people are annoyed about is disproportional charges from an apparent 'specialist'.

You sound a little bit like Katie Hopkins in the way you express your views; take that as you will.

Edited by crispyshark on Friday 2nd October 16:29

And you sound like the same "Journalist" who had no idea about insurance from the Legal threads. Your comments clearly show your lack of understanding, so don't go writing about it. Each broker has a TOBA (Terms of Business) if you agree to that, you cannot complain about charges it is given to you up front, via e-mail & via post. You have a 14 day distance based "cooling off period" if you choose to not cancel in this period, you should have read about the charges . There is the first clear massive gape in your & everyone elses knowledge. but lemme guess. "No-one ever reads that so I shouldnt be held accountable for it!" haha. I see this everyday, if you don't like the charges, read your documentation.

Many brokers have binders with insurers which allow them to write risk all they have to do is create a profitable book. Again a huge lack of understanding displayed.

You sound a lot like, you know very little about an industry, but dont. To compare to a Journalist, any from mailonline will do!

You're funny, I like you....yes, I moonlight as a journo....you have clearly not read and just reacted. This has got nothing to do with TOBA's, that's simply a compliance and legal access to trade, rather than the actual binding authority (which can be amended by endorsement by agreement by insurers at any time during the policy period).

The majority of people are complaining about service and the company billing themselves as a specialist when they clearly are not! Equally, there is nothing in the terms and conditions that would be able to tell you what pro rata premium you would be charged for changing your car mid term or what additional premium you would be charged for adding another driver. Adrian Flux couldn't tell you that without sight of the info prior to the event. However, if I deal with a 'specialist' I would like to think that they could speak to the underwriter if the premium quoted came back and seemed excess....rather than just accept the algorithm that influenced the calculation or even worse, accept 'computer says no' response.

Don't try and baffle with BS and don't try to kid a kidder.

Oh this is tiring. Your asking about fee's charged. Firstly, a Broker will issue a TOBA to a client from the outset which states the fee's they will charge for any given action. As you correctly state they will not know the cost of adding an additional driver, however, how do you know that half of the "Moaning" PH member's spouses are all ACC free, the perfect risk, in the perfect scenario after already having drilled down the rate to the lowest achievable, why should they get something for free, if your moonlighting became a permanent occupation, would you do bits of your work for free if margins were low? Do you expect a magic wand to be waved? You state your an insurance professional however I'm surprised about your lack of understanding about the "broking systems" have you actively used any of these or interacted with an underwriting team for personal lines? If you had you wouldn't have asked the question about speaking to the underwriting team.

A Specialist is not always cheaper. Why do you think it is? For example, Sevens & Classics can be often more expensive than AT but you would rather go with them because of their status. It all falls down to peoples expectations. Do you really think they are going to fight for you who is moaning about your £300 premium for which the company probably only makes roughly 10% out of? You probably cost them more in administrative time.

The point, which I have gone into many times before is, when you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. I'm not saying the 2.5k product is the same as £200 admiral premium on go compare, because they tend to be dreadful, but dig a little deeper & for not much more (as you state) you can get a MNW or HNW policy for not very much more which is market leading by a long shot.

[Rtype]

St John Smythe said:

Rtype said:

St John Smythe said:

ZOLLAR said:

crispyshark said:

Rtype said:

Not a flux employee by any means. Just a chartered member of the insurance industry, still amazed at how thick you people really are

From one Insurance professional to another....you just won 'bellend of the thread' for that one! Congrats! Mega lolz, smiley face.

Indeed, from another Insurance professional you would think that he's aware that insurance is primarily risk based.
An expensive insurance policy doesn't guarantee great service or cover, likewise you can obtain great cover for low premiums.

Oh it's that 'chartered' chap again

Yawn, heard it all before chaps. Can clearly tell personal lines when you read comments as above. Next thing St John Smythe will be saying is he only buys it to make it say yes on a computer.

The reason you all moan about paying it is because it is a requirement and for all intensive purposes you cannot see an immediate benefit for your money & hate doing it because you are told to by law. Then you all moan when your product isn't what you think it is.

Long & short of it is if you ask a Chubb, ZPC or Hiscox client about their "experience" when needed, they wouldn't shop budget - Unless your tighter than a nuns proverbial.

Edited by Rtype on Friday 2nd October 15:56

There he is! Angry insurance chap.

I'm working on it, anger management classes!

[silentbrown]

JordanAtFlux said:

Regarding administration fees, we are very transparent about this and have to be for obvious FCA regulations. Our administration fee is £25 which is read out in our FCA script every time a policy is taken out. Any other additional premiums are what the underwriter charges dependant on what the change is, and we will always provide a breakdown of charges upon request.

Thanks for the reply.

Based on my experience and what others have said it's the ways fees for cancellations are calculated that are obscure and seem inflated. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, as while it was explained to me at the time I was too p*ssed off to make notes!

a: Assuming your pay a premium of X, some portion of that (Y) is arrangement/administration fees for yourselves (and the underwriters?)
b: When you cancel, both Flux *and* the underwriter demand an administration fee. (£25 each?)
c: Is there VAT involved on those adminsitration fees?
d: Possibly, pro-rata periods get rounded down to the nearest month?

The overall effect of this was that cancelling a £300 policy with 4 months left to run gave me a stonking refund of £18.50 rather than the 'something below £100' I'd naively expected.

Also, in over 35 years of driving, I've *never* before needed to cancel a policy when changing cars, but the quote for the new car was so uncompetitive I had no choice, despite the seemingly punitive fees.

[towser44]

Took a policy out with AF last week for my bog standard Civic Diesel. £65 cheaper than anywhere else I tried (and trust me I tried everywhere including all the cashback sites) with a lower excess than anywhere else and protected NCB. Couldn't fault them on price, just wish I'd tried to wangle the PH discount too ha ha!

Oh and they accepted AMEX without any additional fee so I could even get the AVIOS points :-)

[cabbron]

5 policies in the family, won't be renewing any, didn't get my impreza or lotus business recently, no service, no integrity, no track day cover, absolute shower of st.

[Mikeyjae]

I have been with Flux for 4 years now and every year they send me stupid renewal price, stupid as in a couple of hundred quid more then last year with no accidents or claims. I think they just want you roll over and think sod it ill pay. Anyway I call them up and say x will insure my car for y. Flux always match it, its as if they want me to do their work for them when it comes to pricing.

Anyway I am happy with there service and prices for MODs but come on stop making me do the work for my renewal prices. Especially after 13 years no claims. Its a bit embarrasing really, that you roll over and match within 1 phone call.

[22]

I'm no AF customer, but Jordan I hope you can stick around PH after you move on. You have a nice turn-of-phrase and once freed from the defensive posts, could share some tales of your new role or whatever.

[sebhaque]

I'd be interested to see what Flux offer me next year. I insured a Rover and a Nissan through Flux for a good rate. No real issues on generic cars - while a 623 GSi and a 370Z are uncommon, they're not exactly specialist vehicles.

When I bought my TVR I was told by Flux that they wouldn't insure me on the car because "too many people crash them." When I mentioned the PH discount and their "TVR specialist" insurance, I was helpfully told that "we don't offer that any more." Henceforth I cancelled both policies with Flux, and moved to Admiral. They have been brilliant so far, no problem at all with them.

One of the senior staff from Flux gave me an apologetic call after I moaned on one of the Flux threads here and promised I'd get a good rate on my MX-5 that's still insured by them. I'll wait with bated breath until February when that renewal's due.

[Mikeyjae]

sebhaque said:

I'd be interested to see what Flux offer me next year. I insured a Rover and a Nissan through Flux for a good rate. No real issues on generic cars - while a 623 GSi and a 370Z are uncommon, they're not exactly specialist vehicles.

When I bought my TVR I was told by Flux that they wouldn't insure me on the car because "too many people crash them." When I mentioned the PH discount and their "TVR specialist" insurance, I was helpfully told that "we don't offer that any more." Henceforth I cancelled both policies with Flux, and moved to Admiral. They have been brilliant so far, no problem at all with them.

One of the senior staff from Flux gave me an apologetic call after I moaned on one of the Flux threads here and promised I'd get a good rate on my MX-5 that's still insured by them. I'll wait with bated breath until February when that renewal's due.

You will get a good insurance quote from AF on your MX 5 once they have sent you a stupidly high renewal price. They just want you to do the comparison quotes and tell them the price so they match it.

[Court Jester]

I have used Adrian Flux for a number of years. To be honest I don't find them much worse than others in the industry and better than many others. To be honest the issue is many of us don't understand the subtleties of the insurance market and the industry plays on that. Examples:

Admiral: Another driver reversed into my car in a pub car park as I watched from the beer garden. Clearly not my fault. Other driver and insurer (M&S) admit this straight away. Damage £450, excess £500. Admiral refuse to process the claim unless I use their pet insurance claims handler as damage less than excess. I don't have to pay excess if I use their (I suspect subsidiary) claims farm. Claims farm insist I can only have a like for like courtesy car at £500/day and I can't "pick and choose" and get a Focus from Enterprise @ £20/day. Net effect - I drop in an s2000 and collect a "like for like" Mercedes Diesel Estate and £450 costs M&S closer to £2,000 which is plain wrong when they were fair and reasonable;

Adrian Flux: Same car gets written off following insurance year. My fault - AF passed me through to insurer then left us to it. Insurer was super helpful and efficient with very good and quick payout and would thourghily recommend them. Only niggle was that this year they wrote (4 years after the event) to say case closed and total claim amount. Claim is best part of £1k more than I received. Admittedly I took out a hedge, but AFrefuse to breakdown what additional monies were which isn't really important but curiosity means I would like to know;

A-Plan: Won't go into too much detail on a public forum but completely miss-sold a multicar policy to me. Took some unraveling and they only sorted because I was about to go to the insurance ombusman. Complete idiots who I wouldn't trust with a pack lunch let alone car insurance.

I think the point is everyone has a good and a bad story about every company and every company has processes that won't suit someone. My experience is that I will now always pay extra for decent cover and my experience was that the cover AF provided did what it needed to. My main car isn't with them this year on price BUT it is with a "proper" insurance company with decent payout rates & customer satisfaction. Based on my experience of AF are competitive next year I have no issues using them.

[No Bend]

MrDudwee said:

My first insurer at 18 - of a Renault 5 'Le Car' in beige

30 years on I'm back there for my 991 GTS, 328 GTS and LR Twisted

£1500 cheaper than ANYONE else and great service. Could not be bettered!

John_LCR said:

I've got 2 cars insured through Adrian Flux.

The modified Leon Cupra R was considerably cheaper than the Greenlight policy and a few others I checked online and telephoned.

The Elise was also cheaper as I have just started no-claims on a second car so it was difficult to find an insurer that would do it at a decent price.

I haven't had to claim or change anything on the policy's so can't comment on those costs. But so far I am happy. Both people I spoke to were knowledgeable and understood what I wanted. They asked if I was a member of a club before giving me a quote, so I don't know if I got a real discount or not...

The majority of posters here are obviously cynical and/or misinformed.

The two above posters, one with 5 posts in 24 months and the other with 3 posts in 80 months have had the sixth sense to give timely replies of their satisfaction of AF.

So cynical of 98% of posters here to say how much the company did not meet their expectations. Me? I couldn't even take out a policy with AF due to my type of licence. Would they say that though? No, would just leave me on hold for ridiculous periods of time or never return calls. So I can't say personally i'm dissatisfied with their policies as I could never take one out.

[crispyshark]

Rtype said:

crispyshark said:

Rtype said:

crispyshark said:

Rtype said:

St John Smythe said:

ZOLLAR said:

crispyshark said:

Rtype said:

Not a flux employee by any means. Just a chartered member of the insurance industry, still amazed at how thick you people really are

From one Insurance professional to another....you just won 'bellend of the thread' for that one! Congrats! Mega lolz, smiley face.

Indeed, from another Insurance professional you would think that he's aware that insurance is primarily risk based.
An expensive insurance policy doesn't guarantee great service or cover, likewise you can obtain great cover for low premiums.

Oh it's that 'chartered' chap again

Yawn, heard it all before chaps. Can clearly tell personal lines when you read comments as above. Next thing St John Smythe will be saying is he only buys it to make it say yes on a computer.

The reason you all moan about paying it is because it is a requirement and for all intensive purposes you cannot see an immediate benefit for your money & hate doing it because you are told to by law. Then you all moan when your product isn't what you think it is.

Long & short of it is if you ask a Chubb, ZPC or Hiscox client about their "experience" when needed, they wouldn't shop budget - Unless your tighter than a nuns proverbial.

Edited by Rtype on Friday 2nd October 15:56

Get a grip! It's pretty easy to work out a 'burn cost' i.e. what you pay vs the losses you've had and the value of the car you are insuring.

People have access to this information these days.

At the end of the day an insurance provider's shop window is its claims department and its servicing and I think what most people are complaining about is the inconsistency of service, pricing and unreasonable fees and unjustified premium corrections/pro rata charges (when compared to others).

Adrian Flux do not insure the risk...they are a middle man. The insurers do not set their 'fees'.

No one is moaning about 'paying', what people are annoyed about is disproportional charges from an apparent 'specialist'.

You sound a little bit like Katie Hopkins in the way you express your views; take that as you will.

Edited by crispyshark on Friday 2nd October 16:29

And you sound like the same "Journalist" who had no idea about insurance from the Legal threads. Your comments clearly show your lack of understanding, so don't go writing about it. Each broker has a TOBA (Terms of Business) if you agree to that, you cannot complain about charges it is given to you up front, via e-mail & via post. You have a 14 day distance based "cooling off period" if you choose to not cancel in this period, you should have read about the charges . There is the first clear massive gape in your & everyone elses knowledge. but lemme guess. "No-one ever reads that so I shouldnt be held accountable for it!" haha. I see this everyday, if you don't like the charges, read your documentation.

Many brokers have binders with insurers which allow them to write risk all they have to do is create a profitable book. Again a huge lack of understanding displayed.

You sound a lot like, you know very little about an industry, but dont. To compare to a Journalist, any from mailonline will do!

You're funny, I like you....yes, I moonlight as a journo....you have clearly not read and just reacted. This has got nothing to do with TOBA's, that's simply a compliance and legal access to trade, rather than the actual binding authority (which can be amended by endorsement by agreement by insurers at any time during the policy period).

The majority of people are complaining about service and the company billing themselves as a specialist when they clearly are not! Equally, there is nothing in the terms and conditions that would be able to tell you what pro rata premium you would be charged for changing your car mid term or what additional premium you would be charged for adding another driver. Adrian Flux couldn't tell you that without sight of the info prior to the event. However, if I deal with a 'specialist' I would like to think that they could speak to the underwriter if the premium quoted came back and seemed excess....rather than just accept the algorithm that influenced the calculation or even worse, accept 'computer says no' response.

Don't try and baffle with BS and don't try to kid a kidder.

Oh this is tiring. Your asking about fee's charged. Firstly, a Broker will issue a TOBA to a client from the outset which states the fee's they will charge for any given action. As you correctly state they will not know the cost of adding an additional driver, however, how do you know that half of the "Moaning" PH member's spouses are all ACC free, the perfect risk, in the perfect scenario after already having drilled down the rate to the lowest achievable, why should they get something for free, if your moonlighting became a permanent occupation, would you do bits of your work for free if margins were low? Do you expect a magic wand to be waved? You state your an insurance professional however I'm surprised about your lack of understanding about the "broking systems" have you actively used any of these or interacted with an underwriting team for personal lines? If you had you wouldn't have asked the question about speaking to the underwriting team.

A Specialist is not always cheaper. Why do you think it is? For example, Sevens & Classics can be often more expensive than AT but you would rather go with them because of their status. It all falls down to peoples expectations. Do you really think they are going to fight for you who is moaning about your £300 premium for which the company probably only makes roughly 10% out of? You probably cost them more in administrative time.

The point, which I have gone into many times before is, when you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. I'm not saying the 2.5k product is the same as £200 admiral premium on go compare, because they tend to be dreadful, but dig a little deeper & for not much more (as you state) you can get a MNW or HNW policy for not very much more which is market leading by a long shot.

Oh you huff and you puff and you'll try and blow the house down, but ultimately you miss the point (as you did with your first throw away post).

You seem to understand personal lines but on a limited level. Yes I've used, built and implemented rating tools but that is irrelevant here in terms of what I've done. As an insurer and as soon as you use the word 'specialist' it attracts an expectation. Leaving product to one side as no one has yet complained about claims or product, the service and pro rata costs have been highlighted as a bone of contention; let's not address the discount scenario as that can be defended on the basis of semantics and accepted contract between buyer and provider.

If you are a 'specialist' you are implying that you have experience of a product and the insurance asset. This is not a phrase you throw around willy nilly. Speaking for people that buy insurance from me, they expect that to be underwritten. Again, you highlight personal lines and I appreciate its mass/frequency driven...but the differentiator here is the AF pose as though they can influence this decision. Perhaps they can if the correct fields are put into a spreadsheet but ultimately they have limited control over the insurance capacity i.e. It ain't their money!

There are 'specialist' insurers that have this capability so I will place with them. I can pick up the phone and talk to the underwriter or know that I will get a proper referral. If you want to play in an enthusiasts arena that is the service you have to provide.

The market is competitive and grubby for the vanilla buyer i.e. the 1.6 Honda Civic, of course the quote will be low as it' vanilla business! AF are on here and other members' forums as a 'specialist' when fundamentally they aren't.

The product is similar to other mainstream insurers and your service is being criticised by the people you target. I'd listen to that and change it. Maybe AF is a victim of its own success from years of 'sheep' buying mentality....they've got lazy as they have critical mass....customer service goes out the window as you treat buyers like mushrooms in a dark room.

To square the circle....where has anyone complained about product/claims that you are obsessed with? Most of the complaints have been about additions of cars with no justification for the huge price hike! Why are the renewal prices so high when they are then brought down again when challenged? This is not buyers expectations of 'specialists'.

You obsess about product which no one has complained about. Re/read your first post (which maintains its bellendry award), get off you shire horse and exercise some empathy.

[Mr Tidy]

Nice post crispyshark, I was still typing while you posted that!

Never used AF so cannot comment either way, other than that they are a recognised brand (i.e. one most have heard of) so at least have a reputation to try to protect.

Anyway recent personal experience is that I had a 123d insured through RAC Insurance Services online then bought a Z4C last June with the intention of selling the 123d privately. RAC wouldn't offer cover for both for even half an hour so I went to my local A-Plan office less than half a mile away (but sadly relocated now to somewhere with no parking FFS?). After consulting with a senior colleague I was offered a policy with Allianz for the Z4 that would mirror the NCD on the 123d on the understanding they would only honour this for 1 month. Thankfully sold the 123d with a few days to spare - phew! Then had the pleasure of cancelling the RAC policy!!

Then renewal for my daily came up in November so I went to A-Plan again, got a good deal and took it.

But this June renewal on the Z4 was way more than what I paid last year, so I did the inevitable meerkat comparison and called A-Plan - result was a revised renewal with a different insurer within 5% of the previous year. Why the f**k couldn't they have done that before they sent me the renewal? As someone said it feels like I am doing their job for them.

So my main point is DO NOT EVER agree to automatic renewals with any broker/insurer (my example is personal experience, but friends and family have experienced the same) - they rely on your lethargy to have you over!

I worked in the general insurance industry from 1977 to 2010 and when I started I did indeed work with proper underwriters who had total authority to quote whatever price they saw fit for the risk presented (but would get a proper bking if they got it wrong).

Sadly the guy who quoted successfully for the coach fleet that crashed with Bucks Fizz onboard would know only too well.

Nowadays I doubt there is anyone in the private motor part of the industry allowed to operate this way, so there are no underwriters, just quote monkeys!

And multi-car policies aren't a new invention - Cornhill Insurance as long ago as 1976 (now part of Allianz) would cover up to 4 cars on any private policy when I worked there. No admin. charges, additional cars were charged on a daily pro-rata rate, deleted cars the same. There's nothing "new" it's usually been done before, only better!

Protected NCD also meant no increase next year for one claim regardless of circumstances. Nowadays you may keep the same "discount" but a fault claim will get you a premium loading anyway so the "Protection" you pay for doesn't really seem to protect you from anything!!

Thankfully I had the good sense to move into claims within 2 years and handled claims for the next 30 odd years - so much more entertainment value!

Anyway, sorry for the thread hi-jack, but my experience is that the first person you deal with these days regarding any sort of insurance is fg clueless and you won't get anywhere with them - you MAY get somewhere with the next one but a competitor may be marginally better if you get lucky!

Rant over!

Good luck AF! Be warned, I may (read probably will) contact you in November if (or maybe when) A-Plan mess up again!

Edited by Mr Tidy on Saturday 3rd October 01:26

[HD Adam]

I've insured with AF for years but won't be doing so anymore.

We all know about the mythical 15% discount bullst. It's just not there. "Ah yes, we've already applied it as we are all psychic and knew you were a PH member". Of course you did

But their quotes were competitive for me so I went with them.

Anyway, this year, I got a cracked windscreen. It's covered with a 90 quid excess and up to 1000 quid so 910 lovely pounds to spend.

AF directed me towards their partner. I won't name them but it rhymes with Snortograss.

Bearing in mind that AF bill themselves as a specialist American vehicle insurer, Snortotts are a very strange choice as basically they had no clue whatsoever.
After much chasing on my part, they told me that they would have to import a screen, couldn't guarantee safe delivery and it would be approx 1600 quid.

I appealed back to AF, posted on here, Jordon got involved but the basic answer was "if you're not happy, you need to speak to the insurer yourself" Thanks AF. Happy to take my money as a broker but then not help or fight my corner.

Eventually, I sourced a correct screen in the country for 600 quid and had it fitted by my local Ford dealer for 110 quid.

Yay, under budget. Instead of the 910 AF would have had to pay out to their own specialists, I got it done for 710. Yes, 200 I saved them.

For that privilege, the subtracted 120 excess instead of 90 for not using their idiots.

Cheers AF

Yesterday I got a "Your insurance is due for renewal" email. WTF?

I checked it and my cover runs till April 2016.

I will never insure with them or recommend them. Total bellends.

[Mr Tidy]

HD Adam said:

I've insured with AF for years but won't be doing so anymore.

We all know about the mythical 15% discount bullst. It's just not there. "Ah yes, we've already applied it as we are all psychic and knew you were a PH member". Of course you did

But their quotes were competitive for me so I went with them.

Anyway, this year, I got a cracked windscreen. It's covered with a 90 quid excess and up to 1000 quid so 910 lovely pounds to spend.

AF directed me towards their partner. I won't name them but it rhymes with Snortograss.

Bearing in mind that AF bill themselves as a specialist American vehicle insurer, Snortotts are a very strange choice as basically they had no clue whatsoever.
After much chasing on my part, they told me that they would have to import a screen, couldn't guarantee safe delivery and it would be approx 1600 quid.

I appealed back to AF, posted on here, Jordon got involved but the basic answer was "if you're not happy, you need to speak to the insurer yourself" Thanks AF. Happy to take my money as a broker but then not help or fight my corner.

Eventually, I sourced a correct screen in the country for 600 quid and had it fitted by my local Ford dealer for 110 quid.

Yay, under budget. Instead of the 910 AF would have had to pay out to their own specialists, I got it done for 710. Yes, 200 I saved them.

For that privilege, the subtracted 120 excess instead of 90 for not using their idiots.

Cheers AF

Yesterday I got a "Your insurance is due for renewal" email. WTF?

I checked it and my cover runs till April 2016.

I will never insure with them or recommend them. Total bellends.

Oh dear, Snortograss haven't really changed in nearly 40 years then!

Strangely I have watched a few episodes of CAR SOS, etc. on TV and a few times there is rot in the scuttle panel and/or screen surround reportedly due to a poorly-sealed replacement screen - wonder who did that then??? But the £30 it cost you may have saved your car in the long term, so probably for the best in some ways........!

Change of plan, may not contact them in November

[HD Adam]

Like I said, if you are aiming your insurance at boggo Fiesta's or Astra's, then I could see you partnering up with a major chain but if you're chasing the specialist market, this makes no sense.

When I first contacted Snorto, it was very much a case of "computer says no" and "is it a hatchback?" They had no idea what my vehicle was and I think they just priced it high because they didn't want the work or hassle anyway.

Fair enough it's not their bread & butter but AF charging me 30 quid to do their job for them, was the icing on the cake.

Obviously not the money but the principle. When you get responses back like "You need to speak to Snortograss and book the work in", "sorry, nothing to do with us, you need to spesk to the insurer, we're only the broker" and "that's the rules", you can see why I will never use them again.

The only person to show an interest was Jordan on here when we took it offline but he couldn't do anything anyway.

It's all about the customer service. Theirs was non existent. Quite happy to take my money every year but when I needed something back, nada.

[anonymous-user]

Rtype said:

Oh this is tiring. Your asking about fee's charged. Firstly, a Broker will issue a TOBA to a client from the outset which states the fee's they will charge for any given action. As you correctly state they will not know the cost of adding an additional driver, however, how do you know that half of the "Moaning" PH member's spouses are all ACC free, the perfect risk, in the perfect scenario after already having drilled down the rate to the lowest achievable, why should they get something for free, if your moonlighting became a permanent occupation, would you do bits of your work for free if margins were low? Do you expect a magic wand to be waved? You state your an insurance professional however I'm surprised about your lack of understanding about the "broking systems" have you actively used any of these or interacted with an underwriting team for personal lines? If you had you wouldn't have asked the question about speaking to the underwriting team.

A Specialist is not always cheaper. Why do you think it is? For example, Sevens & Classics can be often more expensive than AT but you would rather go with them because of their status. It all falls down to peoples expectations. Do you really think they are going to fight for you who is moaning about your £300 premium for which the company probably only makes roughly 10% out of? You probably cost them more in administrative time.

The point, which I have gone into many times before is, when you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. I'm not saying the 2.5k product is the same as £200 admiral premium on go compare, because they tend to be dreadful, but dig a little deeper & for not much more (as you state) you can get a MNW or HNW policy for not very much more which is market leading by a long shot.

You're an illiterate fool. I think you may have suggested in an earlier post that most on this thread were 'thick'. How ironic.

[Loplop]

Flux were great when I got my first policy on my own.

Everywhere wanted around £2600 for my Civic with a few sensible mods but Flux quoted me £1500, result!

Then renewal came around and despite gaining my first years NCB and being a year older (obviously!) they only went down to £1300 and that was TPF&T.

Did a bit of shopping around and managed to get it down to £800 with Elephant, Fully Comp. They were great on the phone and I've dealt with them three times since, being quick and easy to talk to.

Then around 3 months ago it came time for me to insure my BMW, an E34 540i. Now I knew it wasn't going to be cheap at 20 years old with only a years NCB but I thought with it being quite... 'specialist' I'd try Flux again. After a massive headache of trying to explain the difference between Optional Extra alloy wheels and non-standard ones they eventually quoted me north of £3000 for TPF&T cover!!!

Quick call to Elephant they swapped my policy over for £460, which with a little maths into play would make my insurance ~£115 a month which means it was only a little bit more to insure my 540i with Elephant than Flux wanted for my bloody Civic!!!