EV cars, would you, wouldn't you?

EV cars, would you, wouldn't you?

Poll: EV cars, would you, wouldn't you?

Total Members Polled: 427

Yes, I would have an electric car: 72%
No, I have no interest, ICE all the way: 11%
No, technology and resources not available: 17%
Author
Discussion

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
JD said:
300bhp/ton said:
What collection of motors? confused
Off the top of my head I can think of; Starter motor, Throttle, Low pressure fuel pump, High pressure fuel pump, Water pump,

I am sure there are many more, and this is an old car with not that much technology attached.
Starter I mentioned many posts back.

Most of my cars don't really have most of the above. Cable throttle, mechanical water pump, etc.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Most of my cars don't really have most of the above. Cable throttle, mechanical water pump, etc.
You almost certainly can't buy a new car with a cable throttle anymore.

EVs are vastly mechanically simpler things than current ICE powered cars and are arguably electronically simpler too.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 6th October 13:43

durbster

10,223 posts

221 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
kambites said:
What that really shows is how ridiculous its ability to get its power down to the road is. Even 4wd ICE powered cars with launch control don't seem to be able to get close to it from 0-10. Anyone RWD is so far beyond by the time it gets any sort of traction that it has no chance over such a short run.
Yep, which begs the question why nobody seems to be making an electric off-road vehicle.

A motor in each corner generating massive amounts of torque would be amazing off road wouldn't it?

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
durbster said:
Yep, which begs the question why nobody seems to be making an electric off-road vehicle.

A motor in each corner generating massive amounts of torque would be amazing off road wouldn't it?
I think one problem with that idea is that it's very hard to cool the motors without significant air-flow over them. I remember reading a while back that Lexus' hybrid SUV which had electric motors driving the rear wheels and the ICE driving the fronts was great off-road... for about ten minutes, after which the motors shut down due to insufficient cooling.

JD

2,769 posts

227 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
Most of my cars don't really have most of the above. Cable throttle, mechanical water pump, etc.
Congratulations.

I am not sure what bearing that has on cars that you can currently buy though?



jamieduff1981

8,022 posts

139 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
kambites said:
jamieduff1981 said:
it photographs better than it is in reality
It's funny, I thought exactly the opposite - I think the interior looks awful in pictures but in the flesh I prefer it to the current 5-series/E-class interiors although it can't match things like the S-class.

I still don't like the idea of accessing common functions via a touch screen or menu system though. Give me a dashboard covered in buttons and knobs which I can find by touch any day.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 6th October 09:17
I agree with you there - I am gobsmacked at how people fawn over the E class interior. You get a lot of those as taxis in Norway too and if nobody told you the German big 3 were apparently the best at interiors you'd think it was a reasonably priced Korean brand.

A Jag, Land Rover or Lexus interior is a far more expensive feeling place to be.

The E-class has a moulded plastic dashboard like a Mondeo. On a Mondeo that's fine. In a Mercedes that people fall over themselves to tell you it's better than a JLR interior by a large margin it's just bemusing.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
gazchap said:
The car has an infoscreen on the head unit which shows live energy usage. When at a standstill, or even in stop-start traffic, power usage is so low it barely registers on the "power meter" - and it separates out usage for the climate control so you can see what effect that has (FWIW, hardly any effect at all)

Wipers and the stereo use barely any power at all, and switching the lights on pushes energy usage up by about 0.2 kW
otolith said:
I suspect that an EV has a very different energy usage against speed curve to an ICE car.
I just found this post from another thread. Firstly it seems interesting that stop start traffic jam speeds it seems efficiency isn't actually very good.

And there seems to be a HUGE difference running the AC, so it gets you thinking that running other electrical items must indeed have an impact on range.


I suppose it would be nice to get some actual feedback from real world use.





pherlopolus said:
gangzoom said:
Slow/stationary traffic will add to range, it's the quick driving that drains it. The 550 mile record on one charge was set by someone doing 24mph avg for 26 hrs or something stupid like that.

If your trip is any thing like ours last weekend your be seeing plenty of jams. Not sure if it's just to do with the Rugby World Cup but around Newport/Cardiff it was like a car park.
I love graphs, the range drops off at lower speed...

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
otolith said:
I suspect that an EV has a very different energy usage against speed curve to an ICE car.
I just found this post from another thread. Firstly it seems interesting that stop start traffic jam speeds it seems efficiency isn't actually very good.

And there seems to be a HUGE difference running the AC, so it gets you thinking that running other electrical items must indeed have an impact on range.
This is the Tesla page I got the graphs I posted from.

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/blog/model-s-effi...

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
gazchap said:
The car has an infoscreen on the head unit which shows live energy usage. When at a standstill, or even in stop-start traffic, power usage is so low it barely registers on the "power meter" - and it separates out usage for the climate control so you can see what effect that has (FWIW, hardly any effect at all)

Wipers and the stereo use barely any power at all, and switching the lights on pushes energy usage up by about 0.2 kW
otolith said:
I suspect that an EV has a very different energy usage against speed curve to an ICE car.
I just found this post from another thread. Firstly it seems interesting that stop start traffic jam speeds it seems efficiency isn't actually very good.

And there seems to be a HUGE difference running the AC, so it gets you thinking that running other electrical items must indeed have an impact on range.


I suppose it would be nice to get some actual feedback from real world use.





pherlopolus said:
gangzoom said:
Slow/stationary traffic will add to range, it's the quick driving that drains it. The 550 mile record on one charge was set by someone doing 24mph avg for 26 hrs or something stupid like that.

If your trip is any thing like ours last weekend your be seeing plenty of jams. Not sure if it's just to do with the Rugby World Cup but around Newport/Cardiff it was like a car park.
I love graphs, the range drops off at lower speed...
My anecdotal evidence of chatting to my taxi driver is 400km on a charge. That was with radio going, AC on etc. A mix of motorway driving from the airport into the city I would guess it a popular journey for them.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
otolith said:
This is the Tesla page I got the graphs I posted from.

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/blog/model-s-effi...
Thanks.


Certainly seems from their page that the use of climate control can have a massive affect on range, the page states 10-15% @ 50mph. So conceivable more at lower speed, if you look at the graph.

ICE would appear to be affected less by this.


So I guess it brings me full circle into wondering how the range is affected on EV when driving one in summer with no other electrical items on and driving one in the depths of winter with everything going. Lets assume same driving style and same roads and traffic conditions.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
otolith said:
This is the Tesla page I got the graphs I posted from.

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/blog/model-s-effi...
Thanks.


Certainly seems from their page that the use of climate control can have a massive affect on range, the page states 10-15% @ 50mph. So conceivable more at lower speed, if you look at the graph.

ICE would appear to be affected less by this.


So I guess it brings me full circle into wondering how the range is affected on EV when driving one in summer with no other electrical items on and driving one in the depths of winter with everything going. Lets assume same driving style and same roads and traffic conditions.
I would assume the same. Replace AC with Heater.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
London424 said:
I would assume the same. Replace AC with Heater.
If it has a condenser, then using it for warm air is good as it dehumidifies it. That said, unless it's really hot out, you don't need AC in summer, or you can roll the window down. However in winter you will want some heat.

+lights
+wipers (maybe, but that is the comparison I'm wanting to make)
+stereo (not a winter thing I know).


The graph would seem to suggest that AC alone can make a circa 40% reduction in range at 20mph.




My commute often results in an average speed of 22-27mph.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Tuesday 6th October 16:10

gazchap

1,523 posts

182 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
Anecdotal and from very limited use so far, but the Leaf's systems will tell you what the estimated range impact would be if you switched climate control on.

The most I've seen that say is 4 miles (which is about 5% of the range) and most of the time it's less.

AC is the range killer, supposedly - just using the heater without AC has barely any effect from what other people have said.

As I mentioned before though (unless that was in the post I errored out on) - it's far more efficient to heat the occupant rather than all of the space in the car, so you should be using the heated seats/steering wheel - these are less power hungry from the off, and feel (subjectively, I know) nicer anyway.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
London424 said:
I would assume the same. Replace AC with Heater.
If it has a condenser, then using it for warm air is good as it dehumidifies it. That said, unless it's really hot out, you don't need AC in summer, or you can roll the window down. However in winter you will want some heat.

+lights
+wipers (maybe, but that is the comparison I'm wanting to make)
+stereo (not a winter thing I know).


The graph would seem to suggest that AC alone can make a circa 40% reduction in range at 20mph.




My commute often results in an average speed of 22-27mph.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Tuesday 6th October 16:10
I'm struggling to understand what you are trying to get to the bottom of. The 'real world' range for a Tesla seems to be around 250 miles. That's in summer, winter, rain, sun whatever. The only caveat to that would seem to be if you are only motorway driving for a big chunk of it.

matsoc

853 posts

131 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
I would like one but not as my only car. At least one ICE conventional car will be alwasys in my garage as long it will be legal to drive it around. I don't get hybrid because they are too complex and just a step in evolution of personal drving. EV will probably be the answer to personal mobility.
I test drove an i3 and I liked it a lot. Also for parking is good and lving in a city that at the moment let you take some deserted central streets closed to ICE cars is a a huge plus point.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
London424 said:
I'm struggling to understand what you are trying to get to the bottom of. The 'real world' range for a Tesla seems to be around 250 miles. That's in summer, winter, rain, sun whatever. The only caveat to that would seem to be if you are only motorway driving for a big chunk of it.
Nothing sinister. Just curious to the impact an EV's range might have.

That chart clearly shows that at 25mph with the AC off you could get 380 miles range, but with the AC on it drops massively to just over 250 miles. That's a massive difference. So I was just curious how much additional impact you'd have on range if you had the wipers, lights and stereo also on (heated seats or whatever too).


This isn't specifically with the Tesla, but any EV. As range is ultimately the dictating point on if an EV is at all viable to a potential user.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

254 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
When I can get an EV with equivalent performance to my current car, which can be charged in a similar time it takes to fill a tank and which costs a similar amount to buy then I'll start showing some interest. Until then, no way Jose.

Oldandslow

2,405 posts

205 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
I couldn't have one as my only vehicle but multiple ownership is not a problem for me.

Ideally I'd want one for my 8 mile commute, the trip to my GF's house and shuttling me to the various garages I keep my proper cars in. Charging available at all locations.

Just need the price to drop to a couple of bags and I'll be in an EV. [/damphands]

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
Presumably the power drain of AC will depend on the ambient conditions.

Mr GrimNasty

8,172 posts

169 months

Tuesday 6th October 2015
quotequote all
Here is a diagram showing the relative 'damage' done by electric and gasoline cars, this was a scientific study taking into account all the usual pollutants cited.

All EVs do is shift the pollution to the power generation regions, and arguably make it worse over all.

(Sorry it is poor quality, but green = low, red = high and scale is same for both halves of diagram, gas left, EV right.)