EV cars, would you, wouldn't you?

[hufggfg]

All this chat has made me really want an i3... I have absolutely no need for one and too many cars already (and unfortunately it couldn't replace any of the cars I currently have), but I now want one. Damnit.

[Guvernator]

I would definitely buy an EV car? Hell yes, I've wanted one ever since Will Smith drove his futuristic electric Audi in iRobot. Unfortunately those that are available at the moment are crushingly boring (Leaf), weird looking for weirdness sake (i3) or those that are decent are astronomically expensive for what they offer (Tesla, i8)

As soon as someone releases a good looking mid level exec car with a genuine 300 mile range for £35k, I'm there. A lot of people are saying the Tesla Model 3 could be that car. If they get the looks and drive right I could be interested.

I also think we need more EV sportscars. Sure we all like our evocative petrol engines but if someone made a futuristic but nice looking low slung sports car and gave it a sound like a TIE fighter, I'd be there. I feel a lot of the time the EV makers are missing some very important tricks in making their EV cars more appealing, they need to watch more Star Wars\Sci-Fi to learn how to make EV cars cool for more than just the eco-mental crowd.

[J4CKO]

Just a quick question off topic if I may,

With the EV's like the Model S that was just shown destroying some big V8's, it does that with one gear doesnt it ?

Whats the physics behind this, I know its about torque from zero rpm and the number of revs but is the single gear ration a compromise, would there be any benefit to a gearbox and would it counter the tapering off in acceleration as speeds rise ?

[pherlopolus]

J4CKO said:

Just a quick question off topic if I may,

With the EV's like the Model S that was just shown destroying some big V8's, it does that with one gear doesnt it ?

Whats the physics behind this, I know its about torque from zero rpm and the number of revs but is the single gear ration a compromise, would there be any benefit to a gearbox and would it counter the tapering off in acceleration as speeds rise ?

I think it introduces energy losses into an otherwise fairly efficient system, so you might lose 20% efficiency which would be 20 miles in a leaf or 40-60 in a tesla.

[Greg_D]

Jimmyarm said:

We have one.

It is awesome and does exactly what we want it too and can use it for 99% of our journeys.

Once you have owned one, if it fits with your driving habits, you wonder why all those other people on the road haven't cottoned on.

you saved me typing exactly the same thing.....

[Greg_D]

98elise said:

The last two companies I've worked for have had dedicated charging bays, and the public car park I'm currently using has charging bays. When I was working in exeter every public car park seemed to have them.

Planning regs! every application i put in has to have provision for leccy charging

[gifdy]

Greg_D said:

Jimmyarm said:

We have one.

It is awesome and does exactly what we want it too and can use it for 99% of our journeys.

Once you have owned one, if it fits with your driving habits, you wonder why all those other people on the road haven't cottoned on.

you saved me typing exactly the same thing.....

Perfect summary. I worked out the majority of our journeys were <10 miles - the wife's daily commute, taxi service for daughter etc, so we got a Zoe. It's an absolute hoot around town. You find yourself looking at people in petrol/diesel cars (usually in the rear view mirror with a startled expression on their face after you've burned them off at the lights) wondering why more people don't have them.

We charge up once or twice a week at home and fight over the keys. The 'back-up' estate car sits on the drive, forgotten.

We may be in an early adopter sweet spot in terms of charging though. It's easy enough to get access to public charging points and they don't cost, but I can see there being issues if the number of points don't keep up with the number of EVs.

[TransverseTight]

RossP said:

We have an i3 and an M4. Both utterly brilliant at what they do.

Have you drag raced them yet? I've read, but not seen demonstrated the i3 can beat an M4 across the lights if launch control is not enabled and you aren't sitting there at 4,000 sounding like a nob.

Trouble is 2 seconds later the M4 will come screaming past. Still handy if you want to be first to the last free petrol pump in a Rex

If you haven't well, you need to get it done and post the results on you tube. With and without launch control please

My hunch is what 0-60 times dont include is add revs, release handbrake a bit, start to release clutch, add more revs and fully release handbrake. I.e. 90% of joe public will find 0-60 is just like MPG about 30% less in the real world.

Edited by TransverseTight on Thursday 8th October 17:16

[Phunk]

300bhp/ton said:

gangzoom said:

Phunk said:

60-80 miles.

Renault Zoe is approx the same, perhaps 5 miles more.

However Nissan have just released a Leaf with a bigger battery which should give a real world 90-110 mile range

I've had my Leaf over 6 months. The 100-0% range is actually very close to 90 miles. But you never will go to 0% - Your be stuck overwise. I recharge it once the battery drops to below 20%, so I plug mine in every 70 miles or so. Which for me is about twice a week.

Nissan has just released a new Leaf with a bigger battery which should mean a 100-0% range of 110+ miles. This is actually enough for me to go from Leicester to London without worry - My current Leaf can just about do it non-stop but the last 5-10 miles is very tight on charge - but it's good fun

So doing a 75 miles a day commute if probably not practical in one of these. Thanks. I did wonder if they would be viable, given fuelling them should be cheap.

The new Leaf with the larger battery would certainly work.

No change of getting a charge at work?

[TransverseTight]

J4CKO said:

Just a quick question off topic if I may,

With the EV's like the Model S that was just shown destroying some big V8's, it does that with one gear doesnt it ?

Whats the physics behind this, I know its about torque from zero rpm and the number of revs but is the single gear ration a compromise, would there be any benefit to a gearbox and would it counter the tapering off in acceleration as speeds rise ?

Tesla tried dual ratio transmissions whrn Testing the lower power S. It merit ripping them apart. 1 gear is enough.

That said in the new dual motor cars they are geared diffetently... the rear is lower geared for acceleration the front higher geared for cruising. You can also use both together

So there's a bit of efficiency loss from a single gear at higher speeds but not as much as you'd have from losses in a multi speed set up.

EV motors are a whole new world of mental pain. I started off studying electrical and electronics. I can barely describe how an AC induction motor works, let alone a variable frequency one like those used by Tesla.

I used to understand how DC motors worked like the one in the i3, but BMW designed a new tyoe. Some weird science going on in these cars.

What is scary we are at the dawn of the electric revolution. Look what Tesla had done in less than 10 years. The P85D can stick out half a megawatt of power! Or 500kW if you prefer. Imagine what will happen when the collective might of the auro industry is churning these out in masses. The best part with 700hp EV motors. If you only use 50hp pottering around town they are just as efficient as a 50hp motor. No electron guzzlers with huge fuel bills.

The Tesla only uses a little bit more than my i3 not because of the motors but becuase it weighs 2 tonnes vs just 1300kg. The battery only i3 is 1180ish kg.

[MrBarry123]

When I can do a 600 mile round trip in an EV with no more inconvenience than I have currently (i.e. 10 minutes spent refuelling after 400 miles) then I will have absolutely no hesitation about looking at one seriously.

Until then, no thanks.

[ORD]

More importantly, anyone who thinks more power will make road driving any more fun clearly lives somewhere other than the UK. It is hard enough to make use of 300bhp, let alone 700 - the rest is just pub numbers.

[FiF]

ORD said:

More importantly, anyone who thinks more power will make road driving any more fun clearly lives somewhere other than the UK. It is hard enough to make use of 300bhp, let alone 700 - the rest is just pub numbers.

Quite, the message about how dismal the authorities have made things hit me some years back when I took a Daewoo Matiz out for an Italian tune up to try and blow the cobwebs out from years of pensioner pottering. Realised that even in a car as awful as that thing was could have lost my licence in a morning just from speed camera sites on NSL roads. Since then many of those NSLs have disappeared.

[otolith]

J4CKO said:

Whats the physics behind this, I know its about torque from zero rpm and the number of revs but is the single gear ration a compromise, would there be any benefit to a gearbox and would it counter the tapering off in acceleration as speeds rise ?

I think essentially gearboxes are there to work round the limitations of IC engines.

[gangzoom]

For people after drama and noise, I suggest you guys try something much more manly than a V8 or V12....



That way you can have your 'fun' in your outdated antiquated toys, and leave the public roads clear for the rest of us to enjoy faster, more efficient machinery

[ORD]

gangzoom said:

For people after drama and noise, I suggest you guys try something much more manly than a V8 or V12....



That way you can have your 'fun' in your outdated antiquated toys, and leave the public roads clear for the rest of us to enjoy faster, more efficient machinery

Apart from the fact that almost all EVs are still glacially slow and built of cardboard. Early adopters really do feel the need to talk up something that remains half baked.

[coppice]

Well , I suggest if you had ago in a Tesla you may change your mind.Other stuff that impressed me was a an i3 at Harewood Hillclimb - surprisingly brisk and various i8s . OK , they are hybrids but I'd have one tomorrow .Nothing beats the feel and sound of an angry smallblock Chevy V8 or a Ferrari V12 but most us drive round in cars with anodyne white goods IC engines and for everyday A to B stuff EVs tick most boxes

[PanzerCommander]

coppice said:

Well , I suggest if you had ago in a Tesla you may change your mind.Other stuff that impressed me was a an i3 at Harewood Hillclimb - surprisingly brisk and various i8s . OK , they are hybrids but I'd have one tomorrow .Nothing beats the feel and sound of an angry smallblock Chevy V8 or a Ferrari V12 but most us drive round in cars with anodyne white goods IC engines and for everyday A to B stuff EVs tick most boxes

Yup.

I guess I am lucky in a way to be able to drive a V8 on a day to day basis (the lease cost of a Tesla Model S is still 4x more than my monthly fuel bill so as I said before I won't be swapping to an EV any time soon; but that’s on cost grounds rather than "because it’s st innit".

I echo other posters in the difficulties of high HP on the roads, using the 320bhp in my Mustang is hard enough. If you overtake a truck on a single carriageway NSL road you are well into licence losing speeds by the time you pull in (if you keep your foot down). Even overtaking a dawdler in a car, you are doing 80+ by the time you pull in. That being said a slower car would frustrate me as it makes overtaking morons far more difficult.

[CorvetteConvert]

coppice said:

Well , I suggest if you had ago in a Tesla you may change your mind.Other stuff that impressed me was a an i3 at Harewood Hillclimb - surprisingly brisk and various i8s . OK , they are hybrids but I'd have one tomorrow .Nothing beats the feel and sound of an angry smallblock Chevy V8 or a Ferrari V12 but most us drive round in cars with anodyne white goods IC engines and for everyday A to B stuff EVs tick most boxes

I agree about the Tesla. I had a drive of their 2014 sports car and the 'lag-free' shove from the very first instant is amazing. It's so different also to when you have an accompanying engine growl or scream. You just goooooooooo and it's so weird feeling the sensation of massive acceleration with almost no noise. Yes, up top it all tails off when a big V8 like either of mine would be really getting going, but 99.9% of us spend 99.9% of our time under 120 mph anyway so the best EVs certainly have a place amongst us.
I agree about the sound of a small-block V8. Mine revs to 7,000 rpm, despite having 7,011cc and is certainly 'angry' through it's sports exhaust! :-)

[98elise]

J4CKO said:

Just a quick question off topic if I may,

With the EV's like the Model S that was just shown destroying some big V8's, it does that with one gear doesnt it ?

Whats the physics behind this, I know its about torque from zero rpm and the number of revs but is the single gear ration a compromise, would there be any benefit to a gearbox and would it counter the tapering off in acceleration as speeds rise ?

A gearbox is actually needed to make up for the ICE limitations. It can't produce enough low down torque to move a car, and produce enough rpm to propel it to a decent speed. To do both it needs a gear box. In addition it needs a clutch because it can't pull from zero revs. There is also the issue of keeping the engine in a reasonably economic rpm range when at speed.

Electric motors can pull from zero with maximum torque, and can spin at much higher revs Losses are very little so the is no need to go up a gear unless you really need more top end speed. It wouldn't increase acceleration at all because you would be going up a gear, not down.

In short EV's don't really need them, so why fit one.