EV cars, would you, wouldn't you?

[FiF]

If anyone has actually been reading what written so far, personally modern cars are just too competent for any fun element on public roads without great risk to licence and possibly even other road users. So that for me sets the fun side of the equation down the classic route. Not used everyday so ultimately daily drive reliability not required, would be nice but not a deal breaker.

For the daily, reliability is a key, but also 99%+ of journeys are doable easily by current EV. Except also need an estate / load lugger. Current EVs don't fit that mould in the slightest. Which means either having a third for load lugging , dog carrier duties if the main daily is an EV, or the industry brings out other designs. So agree with above comments that they have to start diversification into other body styles.

[kambites]

FiF said:

For the daily, reliability is a key, but also 99%+ of journeys are doable easily by current EV. Except also need an estate / load lugger. Current EVs don't fit that mould in the slightest. Which means either having a third for load lugging , dog carrier duties if the main daily is an EV, or the industry brings out other designs. So agree with above comments that they have to start diversification into other body styles.

The Model-X appears to provide what you're after, albeit not cheaply.

[RossP]

Regularly use the i3 for tip runs with the back seats down

[Guvernator]

otolith said:

Early hybrids and EVs were apologetically styled for people who thought they were buying a lesser evil. To gain traction, they need to be styled to attract people who think cars are great.

Nail on the head, it's almost as if they were trying to disguise the fact it's a car, which is fine for easing the concious of the eco-mentalists but I want a car to look like a car, preferably a pretty one.

[lostkiwi]

I would definitely include an EV in the garage alongside a petrol one (or two). An EV would suit my commuting perfectly.

[CorvetteConvert]

kambites said:

Like it or not, the idea of a sports car with a manual gearbox or a high-reving engine is dead or at least dying. Once you're stuck with relatively low-reving turbos and automatic gearboxes I don't really see how an ICE powered car is any more fun than an EV.

I suspect the Tesla Roadster is at least as interactive and feelsome to drive as the most commonly specced current 911. When the next full generation of "sports cars" hit with even more grip, no manual option and four-pot turbos in everything the balance will shift towards EVs being the more interesting choice for me (assuming, that is, that one can buy a decent electric sports car by then).

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 13th October 09:28

Correct, i had to eat my words about EVs after i had a drive in a Tesla and after i used a Leaf as a courtesy car for a few days. ORD, the Tesla was amazing fun and my regular car was a 996 turbo at the time.
Heel and toe is all very well but less and less relevant on our public roads.
Many modern auto/dsg 'boxes are as much fun as a manual imo and the truth is they change cogs quicker than we can.

[andburg]

Sure I agree with a lot of people here
company car so if I could go EVI would, save myself a small fortune in tax and use the savings to buy a 2nd bike or upgrade the boss's fiesta to something with no roof and some power

[ORD]

CorvetteConvert said:

Correct, i had to eat my words about EVs after i had a drive in a Tesla and after i used a Leaf as a courtesy car for a few days. ORD, the Tesla was amazing fun and my regular car was a 996 turbo at the time.
Heel and toe is all very well but less and less relevant on our public roads.
Many modern auto/dsg 'boxes are as much fun as a manual imo and the truth is they change cogs quicker than we can.

Ah. We like very different things about driving Explains it. I heel and toe to the shops (to use an old PH cliche). I also disagree completely re dual clutch boxes - quicker but nothing like as much fun; and torque converter boxes should not be allowed in any car that is supposed to be driven for enjoyment.

(As a final nail in the coffin of us having nothing in common, I dont like turbos, even 911 Turbos.)

[Horse Pop]

Yes.

Why not? The drivetrain characteristics look ideal for commuting.

[TransverseTight]

ORD said:

You've been able to do that on the PlayStation for years

A lot of us think that actually driving a car, rather than guiding a dodgem or pressing buttons to go and buttons to stop, is more involving and rewarding. If you cant change gear as well as controlling your speed and judging corners, you are either a terrible driver or are driving way too fast for the road.

The idea that an i3 is fun to drive on a country road would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I'm not sure whether you are serious comparing a car that can actually transport you somewhere and doesn't have to model the phyiscs to work out if the car should crash into a hedge?

I don't like autos as they always change gear just when you don't want them to. But EVs are different. No gears is a lot of problems removed. Yes in a manual you can upshift and down shift mid corner but you're interupting the flow and smoothness of the line (especially if you misjudge a double apex corner and come in too fast).

I don't see how you think having fun [in anything] is sad? I know is not an Exige but with 175hp and 1300kg means you can have fun at legal speeds. The best part is coming out of slow speed corners. .. 20mph and feeling the car just give a constant shove until you get to the next. You never run out of revs mid corner unless your going 35mph over the legal limit

I know is not everyone's cup of tea I totally get that, but for a small family hatchback is not boring by any means. Hence i use the word fun rather than fast.

A few mates have swapped from high powered customs into things like Mitos and Fiat 500s just becuase you can't use 300hp on a regular basis on UK roads. Yeah it makes it easy to get to 100mph quicker but in day to day driving you'll just get a stream of cars in both directions and sit frustrated you can't get anywhere. A sports bike is a better bet

The i3 excels at commuting and on nights like yesterday you can have a fssssssshh (noise an electric motor makes when you floor it) down the back roads without annoying anyone. One thing to try. .. 20mph on a country lane with the windows down. You can hear the birds. Don't think that works in a Mustang.

[J4CKO]

I think driving a manual will be a dying skill but to be honest, i think my granddad used to mourn the loss of crash gearboxes and double-de-clutching, he used to say cars had a thingy where you could adjust the ignition advance via a lever on the steering wheel.

I drove to work in my car this morning, roof down, V6 making a racket and changing gear, enjoying matching the revs to the road speed but that is only because what I am used to, a kid being born now wouldn't have 45 years of exposure to it so it isn't like they will miss it, they will just look at it as if we are daft or explaining how to drive a Steam Locomotive.

These "skills" dying out dont really matter, am sure someone will keep it going for the sake of history but it doesnt really make you a better driver being able to heel and toe and all that, like the gearboxes without syncro and other arcane aspects of motoring from the past, they only exist because the technology meant it had to because it was sub-optimal, EV's dont need multi speed gearboxes and being good at driving means going from 17 to 80 or whatever without hurting anyone, damaging property or annoying the st out of everyone else as you go about it.

[kambites]

J4CKO said:

I think driving a manual will be a dying skill but to be honest, i think my granddad used to mourn the loss of crash gearboxes and double-de-clutching, he used to say cars had a thingy where you could adjust the ignition advance via a lever on the steering wheel.

I'm 35 and I'd have a crash gearbox and manual timing advance in a "fun" car for preference, great fun things to master. In fact I'm drawn more and more to getting something like an Austin Seven for fun driving.

[TransverseTight]

Guvernator said:

otolith said:

Early hybrids and EVs were apologetically styled for people who thought they were buying a lesser evil. To gain traction, they need to be styled to attract people who think cars are great.

Nail on the head, it's almost as if they were trying to disguise the fact it's a car, which is fine for easing the concious of the eco-mentalists but I want a car to look like a car, preferably a pretty one.

Def agree with this. I like gadgets and electrical things (did Electrical and electronics at uni hence the obsession) back in 2004 I tried out a Gen 2 Prius when they came out. Decided to get a used E46 330Ci instead Given it predated emmissions taxes it was cheapish to run. Until I had to replace half the electrics and suspension. 7 year old car Cost me £10k in parts and depreciation over 2 years. Ouch!

[Catatafish]

If the energy used to charge them came ONLY from renewables and nuclear, and there was decent performance to boot, then yes.

Whilst fossil fuels make up a big part of the national grid, you might as well burn them directly in your vehicle.

[kambites]

Catatafish said:

If the energy used to charge them came ONLY from renewables and nuclear, and there was decent performance to boot, then yes.

Whilst fossil fuels make up a big part of the national grid, you might as well burn them directly in your vehicle.

That depends rather on your reason for buying an EV, doesn't it? I want an electric family car primarily because I want an electric family car, not because I want to reduce my CO2 footprint (although if it does that it would be a happy side-effect).

[J4CKO]

kambites said:

J4CKO said:

I think driving a manual will be a dying skill but to be honest, i think my granddad used to mourn the loss of crash gearboxes and double-de-clutching, he used to say cars had a thingy where you could adjust the ignition advance via a lever on the steering wheel.

I'm 35 and I'd have a crash gearbox and manual timing advance in a "fun" car for preference, great fun things to master. In fact I'm drawn more and more to getting something like an Austin Seven for fun driving.

What do you have with a crash gearbox ?

350Z has more or less a crash box until its warmed up, its horrible when its cold.

[kambites]

J4CKO said:

What do you have with a crash gearbox ?

Nothing at the moment, sadly. The closest I've had is my (probably) 150k mile MGB whose syncromeshes have long since disintegrated.

[mat205125]

I inclined to think that my perfect 2 car garage would be a Tesla saloon (don't know the name, sorry) for daily duties, and a proper analogue sportscar/saloon/coupe/supercar for the weekend. Probably a motorbike too.

I think that full electric is the way forwards for daily commuter motoring, however I have concerns of conscious regarding the environmental impact and sustainability of the battery manufacturing process, and the need for sustainable sources of electric energy ..... Advancements in solar energy is key here, however that doesn't mean that I want the whole countryside full of hundreds of tonnes of box section and cells.

Unnecessary apologies to some of the repliers above ........ Electrical propulsion and enjoyable and involving motoring are not mutually exclusive!!!

[Devil2575]

kambites said:

J4CKO said:

I think driving a manual will be a dying skill but to be honest, i think my granddad used to mourn the loss of crash gearboxes and double-de-clutching, he used to say cars had a thingy where you could adjust the ignition advance via a lever on the steering wheel.

I'm 35 and I'd have a crash gearbox and manual timing advance in a "fun" car for preference, great fun things to master. In fact I'm drawn more and more to getting something like an Austin Seven for fun driving.

You are one of the the exceptions though.

I know a lad who's in his 20s and who has a Little Austin 7 that he takes to shows. Not how most lads his age spend their free time.

These things are great to master until they become completely irrellevant and then they will die. One day the only cars with manual gear boxes and internal combustion engines will be in museums.

[kambites]

Devil2575 said:

One day the only cars with manual gear boxes and internal combustion engines will be in museums.

The day will certainly come when they are no longer used for practical transport; I think there will always be a few weird enthusiasts who keep them on the road for fun. Same as with things like steam powered cars today, really.