EV cars, would you, wouldn't you?

[kambites]

I'd imagine electronic systems can be far better than humans at both of those things. Eye tracking is very easy and a computer could do it much more accurately and from significantly further away than a human can manage; with the dear example, the computer could obviously spot and track it and it wouldn't even need light to do so; the combination of IR cameras, radar, etc. can spot things a human couldn't even hope to see.

[CorvetteConvert]

Really, they could sense the look in a kid's eye or gauge the body language? Long before they actually move?

[kambites]

CorvetteConvert said:

Really, they could sense the look in a kid's eye or gauge the body language? Long before they actually move?

Absolutely. Probably much better than a person can do it.

I don't think there's any element of driving that a computer couldn't do better than the average human; I'm not even sure there are any that a computer couldn't do better than the best humans. The only question is whether we can trust car manufacturers to implement such systems properly; there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it's possible.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 14th October 14:07

[CorvetteConvert]

kambites said:

CorvetteConvert said:

Mind you, if you don't like Porsche 911 turbos, one of the finest sports cars ever sold to the public, then i am not sure if anything anywhere will ever float your boat, never mind a Tesla or Leaf!

I don't like 911 turbos and I'd love a Tesla.

If i could afford it i would add both of those to my garage but i can't and it would cause almost certain divorce!

[CorvetteConvert]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

HUH?
Please do explain why a dsg or pdk gearbox, swapping cogs more quickly, for a quicker 0-60, 0-100, 30-80, 50-150, (whatever speed) time and being able to judge the best gear for a given situation better than you or i would NOT make you quicker?

[FiF]

kambites said:

CorvetteConvert said:

Really, they could sense the look in a kid's eye or gauge the body language? Long before they actually move?

Absolutely. Probably much better than a person can do it.

I don't think there's any element of driving that a computer couldn't do better than the average human; I'm not even sure there are any that a computer couldn't do better than the best humans. The only question is whether we can trust car manufacturers to implement such systems properly; there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it's possible.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 14th October 14:07

So computer would have to have sense of smell too then. Possible, but economically practicable?

[kambites]

FiF said:

So computer would have to have sense of smell too then. Possible, but economically practicable?

I assume you mean with respect to detecting impending mechanical failure? I can't remember the last time a sense of smell had any bearing on my driving.

[J4CKO]

kambites said:

FiF said:

So computer would have to have sense of smell too then. Possible, but economically practicable?

I assume you mean with respect to detecting impending mechanical failure? I can't remember the last time a sense of smell had any bearing on my driving.

Drop one and it autonomously winds down all the windwows

[qube_TA]

feef said:

qube_TA said:

And as an ICE will provide lots of heat to keep the car warm, if I've got to run heaters to stay warm and the windows clear how will that affect the range?

Some modern ICE vehicles are so efficient that they don't even need radiators if the temps are moderate

Not going to help the people in the car, if it's freezing outside then I don't want to drive a car that's freezing inside. You'll need at least a kW of heating inside the cabin to keep it warm. My wife likes the climate control set to 28 degrees when she's driving!

What I'm lost on is how many kWh's does it take to charge one of these cars up, and how quick is that process.

So in the UK electricity is about £00.108 / kWh if I need 100 of those to charge up my car then that's £10.80, how many miles will that get me?

Diesel is £1.07 per litre at the moment, my Mondeo will easily do 700 miles for 60 of those, so 9p / mile. If 100kWh's will get me 100 miles (for arguments sake) in an EV then I'm no better off.

I'd want a car that is as big as the Mondeo, will take 3 people over 6' tall and will cruise on the motorway with reasonable grunt (i.e around 120 horses or better). Now If I have to stop every 200 miles for a few hours to recharge (I've no idea how long they take now) then I'd want it to require much less than a 200kWh recharge to make savings that offset the range and time (and maintenance) issues.

Also if everyone starts driving EV's and leaving them on charge over night then given the energy companies / national grid will need to provide a considerable amount of extra power (all that lovely off peak stuff will be a thing of the past) then energy prices will be forced to rise considerably reducing the appeal of EV's.

I work for a company that runs several large data centres, they all chew megawatts of electricity 24 hours a day, I optimise systems to use more power at night when the unit price is much cheaper, if off peak power goes because of mass adoption of EV's then that would cost us about a £million per year per site more, that'll push your broadband prices up a smidge

[otolith]

FiF said:

So computer would have to have sense of smell too then. Possible, but economically practicable?

Sense of smell is possible, but perhaps unlikely. It can be given many more senses than we have, though, and the ability to network with other cars in the area and receive information about things the people on board could not possibly see yet. We don't have sonar, we don't have radar, we can't see outside the narrow range of the visible electromagnetic spectrum.

[FiF]

kambites said:

FiF said:

So computer would have to have sense of smell too then. Possible, but economically practicable?

I assume you mean with respect to detecting impending mechanical failure? I can't remember the last time a sense of smell had any bearing on my driving.

Smell of diesel dropped on the road?
Smell of new mown grass and a few fresh clippings in the gutter could equal verge cutting just round the corner, forewarned =forearmed.

Two examples just from this week.

So computer would have to have sense of smell to do everything better than humans. QED

[otolith]

qube_TA said:

What I'm lost on is how many kWh's does it take to charge one of these cars up, and how quick is that process.

So in the UK electricity is about £00.108 / kWh if I need 100 of those to charge up my car then that's £10.80, how many miles will that get me?

Diesel is £1.07 per litre at the moment, my Mondeo will easily do 700 miles for 60 of those, so 9p / mile. If 100kWh's will get me 100 miles (for arguments sake) in an EV then I'm no better off.

US based calculator here should answer your questions;

http://www.teslamotors.com/models-charging#/calcul...

[otolith]

FiF said:

Smell of diesel dropped on the road?
Smell of new mown grass and a few fresh clippings in the gutter could equal verge cutting just round the corner, forewarned =forearmed.

Two examples just from this week.

So computer would have to have sense of smell to do everything better than humans. QED

How will your approach to the corner differ? Do you not always go round it as if there might be verge cutting?

[kambites]

How slowly were you going that you could smell diesel before you reached it?

Anyway if there was actually a compelling reason, then yes of course you could fit a vastly more sensitive "sense of smell" than a human has. I'm pretty sure there isn't, though.


I can confidently say that my sense of smell has never played a part in my driving, except for the negative aspect of taking my eyes off the road to adjust the ventilation when I drive past something smelly.

[FiF]

otolith said:

FiF said:

Smell of diesel dropped on the road?
Smell of new mown grass and a few fresh clippings in the gutter could equal verge cutting just round the corner, forewarned =forearmed.

Two examples just from this week.

So computer would have to have sense of smell to do everything better than humans. QED

How will your approach to the corner differ? Do you not always go round it as if there might be verge cutting?

Obviously you still travel so as to be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear and know will still be clear when you get there. If you don't get the point you don't get the point, which is a shame. But then 97% of the population don't learn how to drive properly, but not convinced that computers will be able to do everything better than humans in this scenario without significant expense and compromises on progress along the journey, i.e. slower and more stops while it figures things out.

[FiF]

kambites said:

How slowly were you going that you could smell diesel before you reached it?

Anyway if there was actually a compelling reason, then yes of course you could fit a vastly more sensitive "sense of smell" than a human has. I'm pretty sure there isn't, though.


I can confidently say that my sense of smell has never played a part in my driving, except for the negative aspect of taking my eyes off the road to adjust the ventilation when I drive past something smelly.

Seeing my answer to otolith, clearly you're one of the 97%.

[otolith]

FiF said:

otolith said:

FiF said:

Smell of diesel dropped on the road?
Smell of new mown grass and a few fresh clippings in the gutter could equal verge cutting just round the corner, forewarned =forearmed.

Two examples just from this week.

So computer would have to have sense of smell to do everything better than humans. QED

How will your approach to the corner differ? Do you not always go round it as if there might be verge cutting?

Obviously you still travel so as to be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear and know will still be clear when you get there. If you don't get the point you don't get the point, which is a shame. But then 97% of the population don't learn how to drive properly, but not convinced that computers will be able to do everything better than humans in this scenario without significant expense and compromises on progress along the journey, i.e. slower and more stops while it figures things out.

I get the point. I just suspect that the benefit of the warning is only of any value in the context of human frailty (i.e. the computer doesn't need warning to be extra careful, because it is always extra careful).

[FiF]

otolith said:

FiF said:

otolith said:

FiF said:

Smell of diesel dropped on the road?
Smell of new mown grass and a few fresh clippings in the gutter could equal verge cutting just round the corner, forewarned =forearmed.

Two examples just from this week.

So computer would have to have sense of smell to do everything better than humans. QED

How will your approach to the corner differ? Do you not always go round it as if there might be verge cutting?

Obviously you still travel so as to be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear and know will still be clear when you get there. If you don't get the point you don't get the point, which is a shame. But then 97% of the population don't learn how to drive properly, but not convinced that computers will be able to do everything better than humans in this scenario without significant expense and compromises on progress along the journey, i.e. slower and more stops while it figures things out.

I get the point. I just suspect that the benefit of the warning is only of any value in the context of human frailty (i.e. the computer doesn't need warning to be extra careful, because it is always extra careful).

So we are in agreement then?

[NRS]

FiF said:

Smell of diesel dropped on the road?
Smell of new mown grass and a few fresh clippings in the gutter could equal verge cutting just round the corner, forewarned =forearmed.

Two examples just from this week.

So computer would have to have sense of smell to do everything better than humans. QED

As mentioned how big was the spill that you could smell diesel on the road before getting to it?

I disagree that you'd need a sense of smell though. You're just assuming it has to be human senses to pick up the grass clipping. Whereas a computer could actually be using some kind of spectroscopy camera or similar to see that on the road there is a different combination of elements than the normal road surface, with these being composed of xyz organic matter and therefore is likely to be slippery. And when the system is mature enough cars would probably communicate together, so the cars in front would warn the car behind about situation xyz. Therefore it doesn't need to be super slow.

And to be honest, how many accidents and deaths are there from sliding on grass compared to a human being distracted or similar?

To be honest I like driving and in many ways would like to continue to do so. However when it comes down to it we make far more mistakes doing repetitive tasks like driving than a machine would do if it is programmed properly with the right sensors. It would have more sensing techniques than us, plus be able to calculate the probabilities of things almost instantly and so make the best choice in a bad situation.

A car is on the wrong side of the road and coming towards me. I am travelling at speed a, the other car is travelling at speed b. The cars behind it are travelling at speed c. Is there time to steer into the other lane and stay within the grip levels of the car to steer back into my lane before the cars on the other side arrive? Or should I drive into the side onto the grass. This will have a much lower grip level and will mean the car stops in distance x. Within that there is a tree at angle z so to avoid that you need to steer at this exact time and angle. We'd just make an instinctive reaction if we had very little warning and came across that situation and have to hope for the best.

[Devil2575]

Why would electric cars need to know about diesel on the road? Surely once they replace IC engines there will be no chance of oil,diesel or petrol spills.

Also if anyone here thinks they can smell diesel on the road a meaningful distance before they reach it then they are either encountering massive spills i.e. tonnes, or they are confused. Given it's relative lack of volatility is doesn't produce a strong odour at the best of times.

Edited by Devil2575 on Wednesday 14th October 15:57