EV cars, would you, wouldn't you?

[kambites]

300bhp/ton said:

Again, not saying this is a bad thing. But EV's simply aren't cars you can park up and leave, and then just jump in and use.

Nor are petrol cars, you have to drive them to a bloody fuel station all the time. It'd be far more convenient (for me) to plug in a cable every night than drive to a petrol station every other week. It's a twenty minute round trip to the nearest petrol station for me; the car is parked within 18 inches of a power socket every day.

Edited by kambites on Monday 5th October 15:00

[300bhp/ton]

kambites said:

300bhp/ton said:

Again, not saying this is a bad thing. But EV's simply aren't cars you can park up and leave, and then just jump in and use.

Nor are petrol cars, you have to drive them to a bloody fuel station all the time. It'd be far more convenient (for me) to plug in a cable every night than drive to a petrol station every other week.

I struggle to believe driving to a petrol station twice a month is really an issue. And surely it's can't be much of a drive, even in the most remote parts of Scotland.

In most parts of the UK there are petrol stations everywhere. So you could park a car up with the fuel light on, leave it 5 days and jump in it, grab a tank of fuel on the way to 'x'.

You simply couldn't do this with an EV, you'll have to actively remember to charge it. Considering the number of people who struggle to keep their mobile phone charged, then I'm 100% convinced this is likely to be a real world problem for EV's for a lot of potential buyers.

[TWPC]

London424 said:

Harry H said:

I would have thought the obvious answer would be to have batteries as cassettes. Standardised across all manufacturers.

All the petrol stations could then have a charging/ change over unit. Simply drive your EV in, machine swaps the dead battery for a pre charged one and off you go again.

Yes occasionally you'd end up with a battery that has less performance but the charging could be based on miles done/ amps used since the last swap so apart from the inconvenience of having to stop sooner it wouldn't really matter too much. Government could tax it nicely as well.

With the quietness/ performance these EV's are now getting added to the simplicity of above why wouldn't we all be driving them.

Edited by Harry H on Monday 5th October 13:13

Tesla tested this in California but customers didn't use it. When the supercharger network is good and you leave your house every day with a 'full tank' range really isn't an issue for most people.

An Israeli company called Better Place tried offering such a system. Unfortunately it went bust in 2013. See here:
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24572865/ba...

Here's one article trying to explain why it failed - two issues among many include the introduction of Tesla's fast chargers and the fact that to maintain the network of charging stations the effective cost of the replaceable batteries meant the fuel cost was 80% that of petrol.
http://qz.com/88871/better-place-shai-agassi-swapp...

[kambites]

300bhp/ton said:

I struggle to believe driving to a petrol station twice a month is really an issue. And surely it's can't be much of a drive, even in the most remote parts of Scotland.

The nearest I approach to a petrol station on my commute is about two miles away but if I go in the rush hour there's often a 10 minute queue. I'm trying to remember the last time my car was left anywhere overnight except outside my house or the house of a relative, either of which have a handy power source and it certainly wasn't in the last two years.

Obviously different people have different requirements... but that's the point, different people have different requirements. For some people an EV will be inconvenient but for just as many people a petrol/diesel car will be just as inconvenient. For me a car that I can refuel at home is always going to be vastly more flexible and convenient than a car I have to drive four miles from home to refill.

Edited by kambites on Monday 5th October 15:08

[300bhp/ton]

kambites said:

The nearest I approach to a petrol station on my commute is about two miles away but if I go in the rush hour there's often a 10 minute queue.

Maybe so, but this suggests there are 65 petrol stations in the area. So I still struggle to believe visiting one of them twice a month is really much of an issue.

[kambites]

300bhp/ton said:

kambites said:

The nearest I approach to a petrol station on my commute is about two miles away but if I go in the rush hour there's often a 10 minute queue.

Maybe so, but this suggests there are 65 petrol stations in the area. So I still struggle to believe visiting one of them twice a month is really much of an issue.

It's not much of an issue, it's just an order of magnitude more of an issue than unhooking a cable from the wall and plugging it into the car.

[Alfa numeric]

300bhp/ton said:

I struggle to believe driving to a petrol station twice a month is really an issue. And surely it's can't be much of a drive, even in the most remote parts of Scotland.

We've got a Leaf- our nearest charger is on our drive. It's much more convenient than driving to the nearest petrol station (which is on the A421 and 5p a litre dearer than the Sainsbury's in town) and costs about 20% of the price of the same distance in my diesel saloon. It's perfect for my wife's 10 mile commute and the occasional short trip that wouldn't even let an ICE warm up properly.

I must admit I love driving it, it's not a sports car and doesn't pretend to be. It's relaxed, quiet and civilised. And there's something gratifying about rolling down a hill and knowing that you're gaining range rather then pointlessly burning a fossil fuel. Having said that though I wouldn't want to drive to Glasgow in it!

simonrockman said:

Others like the Leaf and particularly the Twizzy are dislikeable cars. The Leaf is patronising and lies about the range big time. I've drive several, and even in ECO mode if it says you have 200 miles of range and drive ten miles it will then say you have 180 miles of range. It makes journeys where you are not comfortably in the range really tense.

Are you sure you've not got it set to KM? Nissan says it's real-life range is 80-100 miles and ours is always pretty accurate in its estimates.

[J4CKO]

kambites said:

300bhp/ton said:

I struggle to believe driving to a petrol station twice a month is really an issue. And surely it's can't be much of a drive, even in the most remote parts of Scotland.

The nearest I approach to a petrol station on my commute is about two miles away but if I go in the rush hour there's often a 10 minute queue. I'm trying to remember the last time my car was left anywhere overnight except outside my house or the house of a relative, either of which have a handy power source and it certainly wasn't in the last two years.

Obviously different people have different requirements... but that's the point, different people have different requirements. For some people an EV will be inconvenient but for just as many people a petrol/diesel car will be just as inconvenient. For me a car that I can refuel at home is always going to be vastly more flexible and convenient than a car I have to drive four miles from home to refill.

Edited by kambites on Monday 5th October 15:08

My last fill up took 15 mins, mainly as the bloke in front was claiming £35 in lottery winnings, which the cashier couldnt work out how to pay on the till, then rang his boss to check and it worked, then the winner decided he wanted another £35 worth of scratch cards but the guy couldnt get them out of the plastic housing, he says not to worry about it, I pay and then go to post a parcel and the bugger is in the Post Office procuring scratch cards.

Cool story bro, but it isnt always adding fuel that takes the time !

And scratch card man had a kinky reg plate with 69 in it.

[JD]

300bhp/ton said:

Nope not simpler at all. Infact probably more complicated when all said and done. And it still has breaks and steering. The only thing it doesn't need is an oil and filter change. But seeing as the cost of doing this is £50 for most cars, maybe once or twice a year, it's not a big saving. And I'm sure Nissan still have a servicing package and plan for the Leaf.

Why do people always think and EV is more complicated than one with an angine?

My Petrol engined car, has many many more electric motors in it than any EV!

[gazchap]

300bhp/ton said:

You simply couldn't do this with an EV, you'll have to actively remember to charge it. Considering the number of people who struggle to keep their mobile phone charged, then I'm 100% convinced this is likely to be a real world problem for EV's for a lot of potential buyers.

It takes less time for me to plug my Leaf into charge overnight than it does for me to put a fuel filler into the nozzle of my ICE car and wait for the pump to be authorised. It's a non-issue, and if someone forgets to charge it and runs out of juice on the middle of their journey, they won't make the same mistake again.

I did have a longer reply typed out with the other post in but the forum lunched it with a connection error and I can't be bothered to type it again.

The only real issue EVs have is the lack of charging infrastructure for people that can't park near their homes. Everything else just flat out isn't a problem, because you wouldn't (and shouldn't!) buy an EV if your usage patterns don't suit one. They are no more expensive than typical ICE cars - especially when leased/PCP'd like I am - but fuel savings add up.

I did the maths, and my Leaf will pay for itself (and then some) every month, just on fuel savings alone - I changed from a BMW 750i, and it's telling that the perceived level of "luxury" in the Leaf is not really any different and in some ways is better...

[300bhp/ton]

JD said:

300bhp/ton said:

Nope not simpler at all. Infact probably more complicated when all said and done. And it still has breaks and steering. The only thing it doesn't need is an oil and filter change. But seeing as the cost of doing this is £50 for most cars, maybe once or twice a year, it's not a big saving. And I'm sure Nissan still have a servicing package and plan for the Leaf.

Why do people always think and EV is more complicated than one with an angine?

My Petrol engined car, has many many more electric motors in it than any EV!

Why would number of electric motors have any bearing on this. That said, engines I own only have a starter and an alternator, that you wouldn't get on an EV. But an EV's obviously have components that IC engines don't too.

[coppice]

Well..I have to say that after riding in a frind's Tesla I was utterly blown away , what a fantastic piece of kit. Silent, felt hewn from solid , laugh out loud quick and he is absolutely happy with its range.I am not in the market for a big saloon and even if I were my piggybank ain't big enough but , if I were, thee search would end with the Tesla- I loved it. Even an S Class Merc seems suddenly very old school - why wouldn't you ?

[300bhp/ton]

Alfa numeric said:

We've got a Leaf- our nearest charger is on our drive. It's much more convenient than driving to the nearest petrol station (which is on the A421 and 5p a litre dearer than the Sainsbury's in town) and costs about 20% of the price of the same distance in my diesel saloon. It's perfect for my wife's 10 mile commute and the occasional short trip that wouldn't even let an ICE warm up properly.

I must admit I love driving it, it's not a sports car and doesn't pretend to be. It's relaxed, quiet and civilised. And there's something gratifying about rolling down a hill and knowing that you're gaining range rather then pointlessly burning a fossil fuel. Having said that though I wouldn't want to drive to Glasgow in it!

I'm certainly not against EV's. But I have no drive way, so no possible way to charge at home. I also drive circa 75 miles a day round trip. But traffic can mean you may spend a lot longer than you think it would. It took me 1h 40min this morning, but when clear could be 50min. I suspect this would have a big impact on an EV's range.

I have also had to take a detour more than once because a road is closed, this can add 10 miles+ to the journey. Or I've had to call and pick someone up on my way home from work or need to drop something off. This could add 50+ miles onto the journey depending on the circumstances, but I would be unlikely to know about it until the day, or maybe hours before.

There is no chance of charging an EV vehicle at my workplace either.

I don't know what sort of range a Leaf has. But if you end up with a long day and heavy traffic on the way home, you get back, maybe in the rain and dark and all you want to do is have some dinner and go to bed. I'm sure it's ever so easy to pull up and forget to plug it in. Only realising in the morning as you walk out to the car that "oh f*ck" you forgot to charge it.

Should I forget to go an get petrol the night before, worst case is I'll have to take a slight detour on the way to work.

[djt100]

Phunk said:

It's like any car, you buy what suits your needs. You don't buy a Ferrari to take 4 kids on the school run every day.

I see a milf driving a FF with 3 kids in most mornings....

[gazchap]

300bhp/ton said:

Only realising in the morning as you walk out to the car that "oh f*ck" you forgot to charge it.

As a point of interest, you can configure the Leaf's internal software to send you an e-mail at preset times to remind you to plug the car in if it detects that you haven't.

[Dr G]

Actively looking forward to getting/having one when circumstances allow

[London424]

300bhp/ton said:

Alfa numeric said:

We've got a Leaf- our nearest charger is on our drive. It's much more convenient than driving to the nearest petrol station (which is on the A421 and 5p a litre dearer than the Sainsbury's in town) and costs about 20% of the price of the same distance in my diesel saloon. It's perfect for my wife's 10 mile commute and the occasional short trip that wouldn't even let an ICE warm up properly.

I must admit I love driving it, it's not a sports car and doesn't pretend to be. It's relaxed, quiet and civilised. And there's something gratifying about rolling down a hill and knowing that you're gaining range rather then pointlessly burning a fossil fuel. Having said that though I wouldn't want to drive to Glasgow in it!

I'm certainly not against EV's. But I have no drive way, so no possible way to charge at home. I also drive circa 75 miles a day round trip. But traffic can mean you may spend a lot longer than you think it would. It took me 1h 40min this morning, but when clear could be 50min. I suspect this would have a big impact on an EV's range.

I have also had to take a detour more than once because a road is closed, this can add 10 miles+ to the journey. Or I've had to call and pick someone up on my way home from work or need to drop something off. This could add 50+ miles onto the journey depending on the circumstances, but I would be unlikely to know about it until the day, or maybe hours before.

There is no chance of charging an EV vehicle at my workplace either.

I don't know what sort of range a Leaf has. But if you end up with a long day and heavy traffic on the way home, you get back, maybe in the rain and dark and all you want to do is have some dinner and go to bed. I'm sure it's ever so easy to pull up and forget to plug it in. Only realising in the morning as you walk out to the car that "oh f*ck" you forgot to charge it.

Should I forget to go an get petrol the night before, worst case is I'll have to take a slight detour on the way to work.

How much energy do you think an EV uses when you are sat stationary in traffic?

[300bhp/ton]

gazchap said:

As a point of interest, you can configure the Leaf's internal software to send you an e-mail at preset times to remind you to plug the car in if it detects that you haven't.

Interesting. I assume it needs some sort of internet connectivity to do this however? Does it have an integrated phone system or some other mechanism to do this?

[300bhp/ton]

London424 said:

How much energy do you think an EV uses when you are sat stationary in traffic?

It must still use power, and it's not as if you are sat completely motionless, most heavy traffic is stop start, crawl along. Today would have meant side lights (or more), wipers, blowers and the stereo on.


I have no idea what affect such driving conditions would have on an EV, but driving 35 miles on clear roads with an average speed of say 40-50mph+, is likely to be vastly different to the same journey with an average speed of say 15mph.

[TREMAiNE]

I'm open to owning EV's in the future, however, no chance I would have one now.

The ICE is on its way out, thats a fact - whether it has 10 years left or 100 years left its going to go eventually.

I want to enjoy the ICE whilst I can and embrace EV's when they're all that's left.