BMW Design - What happened?
Discussion
GroundEffect said:
r11co said:
The F30 is an E90 with a fat arse and a broken nose (the latter entirely due to upgrading of the pedestrian safety ratings of the platform). From the trailing edge of the fuel flap to the start of the front wheelarch there is practically nothing to distinguish them.
For any other manufacturer the transition from one to the other could have passed as a facelift.
The E9x series had already had its facelift in 2010 so it was per the normal cadence that they'd do a new model. I am probably biased but the E92 M3 with competition pack is the best looking BMW in a long while.For any other manufacturer the transition from one to the other could have passed as a facelift.
Edited by r11co on Monday 5th October 11:29
jamieduff1981 said:
DJP said:
"BMW Design - What happened?"
Well, they always looked like a 70s Lada.
Yeah, handling finesse, performance and all that - well, they slowly got there. They became dynamically good.
But they still looked like a 70s Lada.
Hell, in the 80s and 90s, the interior trim and standard equipment level was exactly per a 70s Lada.
But they became very competent cars.
But, as for design, well let's be fair: They've never had it.
And now they look like a poshed-up 70s Lada...
This really. BMW are not the only ones who have ever made cars that are good to drive. They tell you they are, but they're not.Well, they always looked like a 70s Lada.
Yeah, handling finesse, performance and all that - well, they slowly got there. They became dynamically good.
But they still looked like a 70s Lada.
Hell, in the 80s and 90s, the interior trim and standard equipment level was exactly per a 70s Lada.
But they became very competent cars.
But, as for design, well let's be fair: They've never had it.
And now they look like a poshed-up 70s Lada...
Design wise that drug-dealer 7 series looked quite nice as was the Z8 (I thought) but the rest of what they have produced has that distinctly German flair of having no idea what constitutes asthetic appeal.
The Germans excel at ugly stuff. They always have. They built attractive looking warships under Hitler but in general they specialised in ugly. When Britain was accidently designing Spitfires, Mosquitos and Tempests which not only worked really well but happened to look great too, Germany deftly defied that old addage "if it looks right, it probably is right" with the Messerschmitt Bf109, Ju87 Stuka and Ju88. Britain designed the brilliant but cute Mini and Germany inflicted the VW Beetle on us.
It's not just BMW. Porsches look weird. The Audis look like half an easter egg. Old Mercs look like they were made from Lego and new ones look they've melted in the paint ovens.
German goes hand in hand with unrepentant ugliness, carried off with the sort of arrogance that some people actually identify with and want to buy in to. I don't get it...
They usually look aggressive, but I've never associated BMW with making good looking cars. Infact both inside and out I find them unappealing enough to put me off everything I've ever had an interest in from a mechanical perspective.
I don't entirely agree but I was amused. For me most old (80s and earlier) BMWs look fantastic, after that it's all rather hit and miss. Some of them look great to me, others are absolute munters. They do seem to attract the most rabid fanboyism of any manufacturer for some reason, there's a whole genre of people for whom they can do no wrong no matter how much of an abortion the car looks like to sane folk.
Good efforts (IMHO) include:
Seriously poor efforts (IMHO) include:
And of course their most spectacularly appalling effort to date:
No wait, that's not it. Here we go:
In fact now I think about it, pretty much everything they make with two doors and a fixed metal roof looks great, everything they make with four wheel drive looks absolutely ghastly and everything else is more of a lottery.
jamieduff1981 said:
This really. BMW are not the only ones who have ever made cars that are good to drive. They tell you they are, but they're not.
Design wise that drug-dealer 7 series looked quite nice as was the Z8 (I thought) but the rest of what they have produced has that distinctly German flair of having no idea what constitutes asthetic appeal.
The Germans excel at ugly stuff. They always have. They built attractive looking warships under Hitler but in general they specialised in ugly. When Britain was accidently designing Spitfires, Mosquitos and Tempests which not only worked really well but happened to look great too, Germany deftly defied that old addage "if it looks right, it probably is right" with the Messerschmitt Bf109, Ju87 Stuka and Ju88. Britain designed the brilliant but cute Mini and Germany inflicted the VW Beetle on us.
It's not just BMW. Porsches look weird. The Audis look like half an easter egg. Old Mercs look like they were made from Lego and new ones look they've melted in the paint ovens.
German goes hand in hand with unrepentant ugliness, carried off with the sort of arrogance that some people actually identify with and want to buy in to. I don't get it...
They usually look aggressive, but I've never associated BMW with making good looking cars. Infact both inside and out I find them unappealing enough to put me off everything I've ever had an interest in from a mechanical perspective.
So if we ignore any subjectivity in individual preferences on styling, surely German cars can't look quite as naff/crap/obsolete as modern Jaguars ?Design wise that drug-dealer 7 series looked quite nice as was the Z8 (I thought) but the rest of what they have produced has that distinctly German flair of having no idea what constitutes asthetic appeal.
The Germans excel at ugly stuff. They always have. They built attractive looking warships under Hitler but in general they specialised in ugly. When Britain was accidently designing Spitfires, Mosquitos and Tempests which not only worked really well but happened to look great too, Germany deftly defied that old addage "if it looks right, it probably is right" with the Messerschmitt Bf109, Ju87 Stuka and Ju88. Britain designed the brilliant but cute Mini and Germany inflicted the VW Beetle on us.
It's not just BMW. Porsches look weird. The Audis look like half an easter egg. Old Mercs look like they were made from Lego and new ones look they've melted in the paint ovens.
German goes hand in hand with unrepentant ugliness, carried off with the sort of arrogance that some people actually identify with and want to buy in to. I don't get it...
They usually look aggressive, but I've never associated BMW with making good looking cars. Infact both inside and out I find them unappealing enough to put me off everything I've ever had an interest in from a mechanical perspective.
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 5th October 12:23
GroundEffect said:
The E9x series had already had its facelift in 2010 so it was per the normal cadence that they'd do a new model.
By BMW rules then yes, but BMW 'LCI' usually means little more than new light clusters with LEDs, some new front and rear bumper mouldings, and a thin smattering of interior trim tweaks.There's a youtube video where some Americans put an E90 and an F30 on ramps side by side to compare the suspension components and floorpan. From underneath they are practically identical.
nickfrog said:
So if we ignore any subjectivity in individual preferences on styling, surely German cars can't look quite as naff/crap/obsolete as modern Jaguars ?
Really?Edited by nickfrog on Monday 5th October 12:23
I think that is fabulous. The XF isn't bad either, the XK was sensational, the F-type is no munter and I actually quite like the XE too, I would say jaguar have got it fairly well nailed with their styling recently (that stupid new SUV thing excepted).
TurboHatchback said:
nickfrog said:
So if we ignore any subjectivity in individual preferences on styling, surely German cars can't look quite as naff/crap/obsolete as modern Jaguars ?
Really?Edited by nickfrog on Monday 5th October 12:23
I think that is fabulous. The XF isn't bad either, the XK was sensational, the F-type is no munter and I actually quite like the XE too, I would say jaguar have got it fairly well nailed with their styling recently (that stupid new SUV thing excepted).
TurboHatchback said:
nickfrog said:
So if we ignore any subjectivity in individual preferences on styling, surely German cars can't look quite as naff/crap/obsolete as modern Jaguars ?
Really?Edited by nickfrog on Monday 5th October 12:23
I think that is fabulous. The XF isn't bad either, the XK was sensational, the F-type is no munter and I actually quite like the XE too, I would say jaguar have got it fairly well nailed with their styling recently (that stupid new SUV thing excepted).
pits said:
I am sure you're happy, and I am sure it is a great car but really there is only a handful of people who will notice you have bought a 4 series, the rest will think it is a 3 series.
You will then explain that it's a 4 series
They will then as "So you have a 4 door version of the 2 door version car, which is to compete with the 4 door version of the 4 door version of the 2 door version car?"
You will have to reply "Ah yes, I have but it is a coupe"
"But it has 4 doors?"
Next thing you know you've killed a man to death with a mannequin and the police are after you, but you get away by hiding in with a load of 3 series parked up, because they wont be able to tell.
Still it does look good, and I am sure it is fantastic it's not a go at you, it's at BMW
No I don't explain anything. Everyone think it's a really nice car. I nod. We smile and live on. Though I have one friend (who's into BMW's...) who keep calling it the 3 GT. That annoys me. Other than that, people don't care. You will then explain that it's a 4 series
They will then as "So you have a 4 door version of the 2 door version car, which is to compete with the 4 door version of the 4 door version of the 2 door version car?"
You will have to reply "Ah yes, I have but it is a coupe"
"But it has 4 doors?"
Next thing you know you've killed a man to death with a mannequin and the police are after you, but you get away by hiding in with a load of 3 series parked up, because they wont be able to tell.
Still it does look good, and I am sure it is fantastic it's not a go at you, it's at BMW
However, people do notice, because the car gets much much more attention than when I was driving an F30 and F10.
I hadn't even realised there was such a thing as a 4-door 4-series, it looks almost exactly the same as the 3-series. Audi seem to have this entirely pointless niche covered with their A5 4-door, Mercedes has obviously missed a trick by forgetting to make a C class that isn't a C class that is a C class because it's exactly the same 
.
.Leins said:
Sorry, but that just looks a mess to me. The F-Type wasn't bad to my eyes initially, but is losing its appeal fast the more of them I see
yonex said:
Modern cars in general are a bit bland. That XJ IMO looks quite dull, that's the point, people want discreet cars I guess? But then, I like the original 1 series..... 
nickfrog said:
Subjectively, it's beautiful. But not for me. Hence me trying and failing to highlight that design is very subjective.
It is indeed subjective but....... madmen the lot of you.
king ugly piece of crap. Particularly from the back.Haha, love these threads, had Mercedes last week, now BMW and I guess Audi next week?
People driving old cars say how badly designed modern ones are, people driving modern cars say how nice they think they look. What a surprise.
Most of the older BMW "Classics" just look a chavy now when you see them on the road. Sure they were nice at the time, but I don't think many have dated that well.
Can't say I get excited about anything in the BMW range at the moment, I have a current X3, but it is the family car, it does it what it does well and I quite like the look of it, nothing more than that though. Went to get a touch up pen the other day and I didn't even have a look at the cars in the showroom, nothing there I would want.
People driving old cars say how badly designed modern ones are, people driving modern cars say how nice they think they look. What a surprise.
Most of the older BMW "Classics" just look a chavy now when you see them on the road. Sure they were nice at the time, but I don't think many have dated that well.
Can't say I get excited about anything in the BMW range at the moment, I have a current X3, but it is the family car, it does it what it does well and I quite like the look of it, nothing more than that though. Went to get a touch up pen the other day and I didn't even have a look at the cars in the showroom, nothing there I would want.
I think people are seriously spoilt for choice these days.
In reality, none of these cars are bad looking - and no one here can design most of these any better, given the constraints on copying others, safety, having to reinvent hot water, re-using components between models etc.
It's like comparing FHM models and saying "that one is a munter". Really?
I look at most modern cars now and see good elements in nearly all of them. Lets face it, a boggo 116d can't look like a frigging Lambo can it?
Lets remind ourselves where we came from in a short space of time just a few years ago.
There are many more.
1 series doesn't look so bad now does it?
In reality, none of these cars are bad looking - and no one here can design most of these any better, given the constraints on copying others, safety, having to reinvent hot water, re-using components between models etc.
It's like comparing FHM models and saying "that one is a munter". Really?
I look at most modern cars now and see good elements in nearly all of them. Lets face it, a boggo 116d can't look like a frigging Lambo can it?
Lets remind ourselves where we came from in a short space of time just a few years ago.
There are many more.
1 series doesn't look so bad now does it?
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