Affordable drivers car for a 22 year old?

[RoverP6B]

A car that isn't RWD is inevitably compromised by sending some/all of its power to the front. It's simply not as good. However, there have been some good front-drivers (mainly Italian and French), and 4WD is good for things like Range Rovers, Subarus and the very odd Audi... B7 RS4 springs to mind...

[Yesthetomo]

Peugeot 306 gti6/rallye would be cheap to buy and run, aswell as leaving plenty left over for upgrades if desired

Maybe something like an E21 BMW?

Both lower end of the budget

[TOM500]

Change of plan. You are fortunate enough to have had your post flagged as being of high enough importance as to be highlighted on the front page of the shop. It is now your duty to marry SOTW with ToTD and buy the Nova. You'll have plenty of cash to spare and if interest in this thread is maintained then literally thousands of people will be able to add advice on maintaining and no doubt "improving" the Nova. Everyone a winner! If this was a democracy, and the options were M3, TVR, Elise, Porsche or any of the other highly attractive names alongside "This weeks shed of the week" then I wouldn't want to bet against the Nova!

[MK1RS Bruce]

RoverP6B said:

A car that isn't RWD is inevitably compromised by sending some/all of its power to the front. It's simply not as good. However, there have been some good front-drivers (mainly Italian and French), and 4WD is good for things like Range Rovers, Subarus and the very odd Audi... B7 RS4 springs to mind...

Ahh the old front wheels can't steer and power the car argument, I own and drive supposedly the worst culprit of this in modern times the Mk1 FRS and it is without a doubt one of the best drivers cars of its generation, don't get me wrong RWD is fun but please don't kid yourself thinking that because your car is RWD, it is somehow faster or superior to a good FWD or 4WD car!

Moral of the story, like you should with people treat each car as an individual!

[BrownBrown]

I am in the same situation, 21, No points 3 years driving xp and 3 no claims, however don't have £15k to spend on a car.

However we all dream, It might be worth looking at the 4.2L/4.5l Cerbera- here is an example I have just got quoted £1069 fully comp for this;

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...

Quite surprised to be honest on that price.

Food for thought.

[rb5er]

RoverP6B said:

A car that isn't RWD is inevitably compromised by sending some/all of its power to the front. It's simply not as good.

Such drivel again.

In what way is awd compromised?

I can think of plenty of reasons why a rwd car is compromised over an awd car.

I can also think of plenty of fwd cars that are much better to drive than plenty of rwd cars.

[xjay1337]

How many people suggesting things like BMW Z4s, Elises, etc, are actually even remotely close to being 22?

I'm 24 and despite having 6 years no claims still find it prohibitively expensive.
My Golf GTI was £700 with all it's mods declared (air ride, stupid wheels, RS4 seats etc). That's much more affordable.
Similarly an MX5 would also be cheaper to insure.

Currently an RS4 B7 is £3500 to insure with 6y NCB
BMW Z4M is £2800ish.
330d E46 weirdly £1800

My Rocco TDI with 250bhp costs me £700 now. Perfectly good fun for me.

I think FWD would be cheaper to insure. And just as much fun with a good chassis. As how often do all of you "big boys" in your massive RWD BM's and Merc AMGs do drifts at every roundabout...probably none lol :-)

[RoverP6B]

Any power being fed to the front wheels inevitably corrupts the steering to some extent. Even where there's a distinct rearward bias, in a 600bhp Lamborghini with a 30:70 F:R split, you're still getting 180bhp to the front wheels, which means torque steer. A Bugatti Veyron is worse still - especially the Supersports. 30% of 1200bhp still comes to 360bhp - so, while the rear does most of the pushing, the front still torque steers horribly.

[xjay1337]

I have 250bhp and nearly 400lb ft of torque. I get a TINY bit of torque steer if I plant the throttle in 1st from 10mph to redline. In second it goes straight. It's not aggressive and if you are holding the wheel you don't even notice it.

The whole "you can't have fun in a FWD and they all torque-steer" car is very pathetic and old. Maybe true in the 1980s when you bolt a massive turbo to a Ford Escort FWD but these days we have better suspension, tyres, bushes, etc.

Anyone else suggested a Clio 172/182?



Honda Civic/Integra Type R's, Megane R26 R, Golf GTI Mk5, Clios etc. All brilliant FWD cars, all marked as highly rated drivers cars by leading enthusiast magazines (like Evo).

[Drgray]

Get yourself an Alfa Romeo 159 TI 3.2 v6 (if you can find one) or there is the 2.4 diesel or the 1.8tbi engines. Beautiful car, not common and they arent unreliable as people suggest. I owned an Alfa GT for 5 years without an issue.

Alfa all the way. I win

[ThePurpleBeemer]

I'm also 22, with 5 years NCB and no points somehow. With Admiral Multi car, insurance for my E46 M3 is £800 a year, and £400 for my Jag STR (I'd always wanted a v8 since about age 13!), the M3 on it's own would have been £1300 to insure. So buy a supercharged v8 and save your self £100 on insurance!

The engine in the M3 really is a masterpiece, but to avoid droning on, it's only really a joyous car to drive at 9 tenths and beyond (I get 1500 miles out of a set of rear tyres!), and even then the brakes are st. Also, not a gripe, but a relevant piece of advice (it doesn't bother me!), the traction control must be off at all times otherwise it'll cut in at the slightest change in road camber and it takes what feels like a year to give you some power again. Well probably only about a second, but it's a very awkward second when you're trying to nip out a junction or round about!. Oh and for commuting the ride is rubbish, so in summary excellent, but they're more of an acquired taste than people think.

Anyway I've sidetracked... with my previous 4 pot e46 (with bilsteins) you could get into a real 'flow' on a good road and it's as enjoyable to drive at 4 tenths as it is at 10 (best at about 7).

The STR is just excellent in every conceivable way, but I'll not write much about that as it seems to take a bit of a weird and wonderful taste in cars to even consider an R Jag saloon

Insurance matters aside, for a drivers car that you can really get into and find your self eating miles and miles of corners in, you want to try and avoid getting drawn in by the appeal of big power and look for a crisp turn in decent suspension and appropriately sized brakes that you can enjoy driving at less than 10 tenths.

I think your best bet is something Jap, or a BMW 130/ 135i!. I've always wondered about a 350z/ 370Z, a 200sx is actually really quite good to drive so I'm sure an R33 Skyline would more than live up to it's hype (except that they require a LOT of engine maintenance). An S2000 would work well, but there's much more special things available within your budget.

An S2 elise would fall within your budget, which would pretty much meet my previously stated ideal recipe for a car, (not really sure why I don't own one now that I think about it, I've been meaning to re asses my fleet for a while now!). You could get a Porsche 996 within budget, but budget around £2k at the start to have all the common fail points rectified.

Or you could go really interesting and get a Clio V6!!

[jsc848]

Been lurking on PH for a while now so first post on here!

I was in the exact same position as you were for 6 months being 22 and looked at nearly all the options people have stated above, ended up buying a 135i and loving every minute of it

Easy to drive quickly (torque everywhere), seats 4 so can squish in your friends, 1k insurance in a London postcode and fairly economical (around 26mpg)

Also debadged so people think its a slow diesel, I'm tempted to stick on 116d badges on the back as well..
Makes a good noise as well up in the rev band as well Ideal if you want something less shouty than an M3 with similar straight line speed.

[danzman1991]

Lotus Elise

[1598Craig]

im 24 at the moment and at 22, similar budget went for a 208 GTi, (on finance) insurance around 1.3k a year but thats with an accident and 6 points - could do a year old hot hatch, make a massive saving on it compared to new and get a car thats modern in terms of kit/safety and should be trouble free for a good few years at least.

plus i know a cracking 208 thats just coming up for sale

[rb5er]

RoverP6B said:

Even where there's a distinct rearward bias, in a 600bhp Lamborghini with a 30:70 F:R split, you're still getting 180bhp to the front wheels, which means torque steer. A Bugatti Veyron is worse still - especially the Supersports. 30% of 1200bhp still comes to 360bhp - so, while the rear does most of the pushing, the front still torque steers horribly.

I have no idea if a 1200bhp Veyron torque steers, never driven ine and limely never will. Have you or did you read it somewhere?.

What I do know and can categorically tell you is that a 300bhp impreza or 400bhp evo do not torque steer at all so if you think they do too then you are mistaken.

[j_s14a]

rb5er said:

What I do know and can categorically tell you is that a 300bhp impreza or 400bhp evo do not torque steer at all so if you think they do too then you are mistaken.

Of course they do. It is a side effect of having power transmitted through the steering wheels. How badly this happens is totally dependent on the setup, but it is a tradeoff.

I'm not getting involved in a debate over which engine/drivetrain layout is best, because they all have their merits and flaws and I enjoy them all, but AWD/FWD cars on the whole don't have the feel/putiry of RWD. Although I will concede that the current PAS/EPAS systems fitted to modern cars genuinely negate any advantage 99% of the time.

[Thatbitterlemon]

I have Owned a Honda S2000 since I was 19 - now 21 and its such a amazing car, I've done 35,000 miles in her and only had to do general maintenance (oil/ filters brakes and such..). It just gives you the best feeling every time you floor it, and its so rewarding when you drive it properly. Only issues are expensive tax mines a 06 so £495 and insurance is not cheap at all on it but I felt it was worth it, my first year was £2700 - this went down to £1200 but I do have a at fault claim on me.

My advice would be to bite the bullet and get one but you must take it easy and learn the car because as it was previously said this car will punish you if not driven right.

[Mario149]

I've already chipped in with Clio 17/82, Z4M and 996 suggestions, but I'll second a few other people and add an S2000 to those. They're basically a modern classic now I think as the interior has gone from being cool modern to until c2006, to old fashioned until c2014 and now back to retro cool the car is flawed (I found the handling a bit snappy in the damp): the mpg is laughable, and it's not fast unless you rag the nuts of it, but when you do, you really can't argue with a 9K rpm redline and 120bhp/litre plus you always supercharge it at a later date

[Zoobeef]

Vx220

[RoverP6B]

Don't recall where exactly but was a review in one of the major UK mags.