BMW 330i or Mondeo ST220
Discussion
It was THE 90's after all..........kambites said:
ambuletz said:
caelite said:
MG ZS? Fills your criteria, cheap as all hell because Rover, probably one of the best handling FWD cars of its time. They also sound lovely and like to rev (provided your not afflicted with the inlet mani issue that affects a lot of old KV6s).
if they are that good why are they so cheap and forgotten? genuinely curious.
. The V6 isnt affect by that and there are even many many aftermarket multilayer HGs for the 4pots that most units are using now.And aye the interior. Looks like it was designed in the 80s, everything feels solid and clunky though but some really goofy design traits.
The only major issues with the V6 are terrible inlet manifolds (which took mine off the road literally the day I bought it, but its been fine since then :/) and sometimes the thermostats and clutch master cylinders fail due to s
tty placement and materials.Also it has somewhat marmite exterior looks, Tiff Nedel still called it the best handling FWD car he had ever driven though in 2001.
Absolutely not buying a ZS, sorry!
Mondeo ST220 appeals because I have always rated the Mk3 Mondeo having driven my neighbours TDCI a few times. They handle tidily, seem to go on forever and the ST is a proper rare beast and I love the paint job and wheels.
The 330i E46 I just think looks classy and having already driven one and nearly bought one a few years back I know how well they drive.
The reason for my post (In response to Dave ST220) is simply to gather views of people who have owned them or driven them, after all its what we do here isn't it, gas about cars?!!
GreenArrow said:
Mondeo ST220 appeals because I have always rated the Mk3 Mondeo having driven my neighbours TDCI a few times. They handle tidily, seem to go on forever and the ST is a proper rare beast and I love the paint job and wheels.
I think the ST220's suspension set-up is unique in the Mk3 range, it elevates it way above the standard type models in the range.Jakg said:
GreenArrow said:
Absolutely not buying a ZS, sorry!
ZT? Similar sort of thing to the ST220, albeit with a bit less power. Cheaper, though.I'd have the ST220, personally.
Driven both, owner the ST220.
I prefer the drive of the ST220. Nicer handling car to me (which surprised me when I drove the BM as I expected to conclude the other way round). I fitted my 220 with Eibach springs which lowered the car, improved handling and improved ride comfort all in one go and for £310 fitted. I also had Focus ST front brakes on mine as the standard brakes are weak. Was a great car. I'd happily have another.
I prefer the drive of the ST220. Nicer handling car to me (which surprised me when I drove the BM as I expected to conclude the other way round). I fitted my 220 with Eibach springs which lowered the car, improved handling and improved ride comfort all in one go and for £310 fitted. I also had Focus ST front brakes on mine as the standard brakes are weak. Was a great car. I'd happily have another.
I've just bought a 330Ci, and there are a lot of poor cars out there in the £2-3k range. Observation suggests that £3-4k should get you a sport with decent history, some options and 70-100k miles. Above this you're getting into increased cost for smaller incremental gains, for things like later, facelifted and super-low mileage cars.
Rust on arches is the primary enemy, with poor design and thin paint causing trapped water under the top of the arch lip. Don't be too worried about the front wings, as they are easily swapped and readily available. Rear arches are more of a pain, and cost a fair bit more to rectify.
Mechanically they are pretty straightforward and easy to work on. Cooling systems can give some headaches at this age, so do some reading. Good service history is worth paying for, as it's likely it will have been given a good once-over annually.
It's a lovely car to drive, and ahead of the Mondeo for enjoyment (in my opinion), provided that the (assuming you're looking at a sport) suspension is in good condition or has been refreshed.
Rust on arches is the primary enemy, with poor design and thin paint causing trapped water under the top of the arch lip. Don't be too worried about the front wings, as they are easily swapped and readily available. Rear arches are more of a pain, and cost a fair bit more to rectify.
Mechanically they are pretty straightforward and easy to work on. Cooling systems can give some headaches at this age, so do some reading. Good service history is worth paying for, as it's likely it will have been given a good once-over annually.
It's a lovely car to drive, and ahead of the Mondeo for enjoyment (in my opinion), provided that the (assuming you're looking at a sport) suspension is in good condition or has been refreshed.
I had an ST220. A friend has had two 330i E46`s. For me the I found them both about the same. Both were well enough screwed together and both had similar performance. The Mondeo made a better tune though on song. The Mondeo handles brilliantly and you`d never thing it was the size it was.
Both my pals 330i`s were autos. The thing is with petrol V6s they can cover ground at quite a rate effortlessly without shouting about it or pinning you in your chair. I found that overtaking in normal circumstances in the Mondeo meant using whatever gear you were in at the time 4th, 5th or 6th. It would provide enough go in any gear. I always found the speed much higher than I thought I was doing without realising.
If it were me I`d buy the best , lowest miles one I could find and pay that little bit extra for it regardless of choice.
Both my pals 330i`s were autos. The thing is with petrol V6s they can cover ground at quite a rate effortlessly without shouting about it or pinning you in your chair. I found that overtaking in normal circumstances in the Mondeo meant using whatever gear you were in at the time 4th, 5th or 6th. It would provide enough go in any gear. I always found the speed much higher than I thought I was doing without realising.
If it were me I`d buy the best , lowest miles one I could find and pay that little bit extra for it regardless of choice.
Edited by bigkeeko on Friday 9th October 14:35
RobM77 said:
I guess it depends what you're after. It would be an easy decision for me comparing a transverse engine front wheel drive car with a longitudinal engine rear drive car, but that's my priorities - yours may be different. No doubt I will now be told I'm wrong, but that's just PH for you...
I'd be wary of an early 330i, my 330ci was the worst car I've ever owned (along with many other PHers who said the same on a recent thread), but they did improve them after 2002 and if you want a silky smooth engine, relaxing quiet drive with superb balance and poise in the corners, then you can't go far wrong. Even post 2002 though they're far from perfect - I'm no fan of the way the TC element of the DSC works by grabbing single rear brakes and as a whole the DSC is a really sleepy system that's always two steps behind you and very slow both in intervening and letting you get on with things again. The steering's a bit lifeless too, so although it drives better than many sports cars, it doesn't feel like one. Personally I prefer the E36 that preceded it, which I owned before (a 325i) and after (a 328i SC) my E46 330ci, but they're getting a bit long in the tooth now and finding a decent one may be tricky. Looking to the nexct model on, the E90 isn't as pretty as the E46 (imho), but in my opinion they drive a lot better, along with the 1 series released around the same time, so if you can save a bit more and find a nice 130i or 330i from that model range, I would personally do that. It's the same silky smooth straight six, just wrapped in a more accomplished package.
When you say "steering a bit lifeless"; I assume that's based on a 2001 car? Apparently, the steering was revised in later models - my November 2003 320i had one of the best PAS systems in terms of feel, weight etc. that I've tried (much better than our current Mini JCW's EPAS).I'd be wary of an early 330i, my 330ci was the worst car I've ever owned (along with many other PHers who said the same on a recent thread), but they did improve them after 2002 and if you want a silky smooth engine, relaxing quiet drive with superb balance and poise in the corners, then you can't go far wrong. Even post 2002 though they're far from perfect - I'm no fan of the way the TC element of the DSC works by grabbing single rear brakes and as a whole the DSC is a really sleepy system that's always two steps behind you and very slow both in intervening and letting you get on with things again. The steering's a bit lifeless too, so although it drives better than many sports cars, it doesn't feel like one. Personally I prefer the E36 that preceded it, which I owned before (a 325i) and after (a 328i SC) my E46 330ci, but they're getting a bit long in the tooth now and finding a decent one may be tricky. Looking to the nexct model on, the E90 isn't as pretty as the E46 (imho), but in my opinion they drive a lot better, along with the 1 series released around the same time, so if you can save a bit more and find a nice 130i or 330i from that model range, I would personally do that. It's the same silky smooth straight six, just wrapped in a more accomplished package.
OP: I'd definitely have another E46; especially a late 330i / Ci.
Clivey said:
RobM77 said:
I guess it depends what you're after. It would be an easy decision for me comparing a transverse engine front wheel drive car with a longitudinal engine rear drive car, but that's my priorities - yours may be different. No doubt I will now be told I'm wrong, but that's just PH for you...
I'd be wary of an early 330i, my 330ci was the worst car I've ever owned (along with many other PHers who said the same on a recent thread), but they did improve them after 2002 and if you want a silky smooth engine, relaxing quiet drive with superb balance and poise in the corners, then you can't go far wrong. Even post 2002 though they're far from perfect - I'm no fan of the way the TC element of the DSC works by grabbing single rear brakes and as a whole the DSC is a really sleepy system that's always two steps behind you and very slow both in intervening and letting you get on with things again. The steering's a bit lifeless too, so although it drives better than many sports cars, it doesn't feel like one. Personally I prefer the E36 that preceded it, which I owned before (a 325i) and after (a 328i SC) my E46 330ci, but they're getting a bit long in the tooth now and finding a decent one may be tricky. Looking to the nexct model on, the E90 isn't as pretty as the E46 (imho), but in my opinion they drive a lot better, along with the 1 series released around the same time, so if you can save a bit more and find a nice 130i or 330i from that model range, I would personally do that. It's the same silky smooth straight six, just wrapped in a more accomplished package.
When you say "steering a bit lifeless"; I assume that's based on a 2001 car? Apparently, the steering was revised in later models - my November 2003 320i had one of the best PAS systems in terms of feel, weight etc. that I've tried (much better than our current Mini JCW's EPAS).I'd be wary of an early 330i, my 330ci was the worst car I've ever owned (along with many other PHers who said the same on a recent thread), but they did improve them after 2002 and if you want a silky smooth engine, relaxing quiet drive with superb balance and poise in the corners, then you can't go far wrong. Even post 2002 though they're far from perfect - I'm no fan of the way the TC element of the DSC works by grabbing single rear brakes and as a whole the DSC is a really sleepy system that's always two steps behind you and very slow both in intervening and letting you get on with things again. The steering's a bit lifeless too, so although it drives better than many sports cars, it doesn't feel like one. Personally I prefer the E36 that preceded it, which I owned before (a 325i) and after (a 328i SC) my E46 330ci, but they're getting a bit long in the tooth now and finding a decent one may be tricky. Looking to the nexct model on, the E90 isn't as pretty as the E46 (imho), but in my opinion they drive a lot better, along with the 1 series released around the same time, so if you can save a bit more and find a nice 130i or 330i from that model range, I would personally do that. It's the same silky smooth straight six, just wrapped in a more accomplished package.
OP: I'd definitely have another E46; especially a late 330i / Ci.
The steering was indeed updated in later models when compared to my hideous year 2000 model, but yes, I still found even the updated steering a bit lifeless. I agree though, it's much better than the current MINI's ePAS system (one of the car's few negatives actually, I'm a fan of the MINI) and I must confess that I've spent half of my 20 years of driving in non-PAS cars known for their steering feel. I've driven a late model E46 M3 and I must admit, even that left me a bit cold (other than the differential and the engine, both of which I thought were utterly superb). I think it depends on one's individual priorities; I certainly wouldn't call the post refresh E46s bad cars, no, and it would be my pick in the OP's quandary. I do prefer the drive on the E36 and E90 though and in terms of the OP's question, I am heavily swayed by the position of the major masses and the end the drive goes to, which for me are the key defining features of any car.a_bread said:
Agreed, it's a fair bit more free revving than the 330's, maybe due to shorter stroke. Stands out as the more sports car type of engine.
This, and other things noted on this thread, probably show how comparing the ST to the 330i is a slightly mis-matched comparison, because the standard 3 series is designed for old people to drive to church as much as it is people like me to hurl it round corners, whereas the ST probably has more of a bias towards the latter. What rescues the comparison is the basic chassis architecture of the BMW being better suited to spirited driving to start with, but it's good to be mindful of the slight mismatch when comparing the two cars. I'll invariably prefer the handling on a FE/RWD car, but over the years of reading PH I've noticed that a fair few PHers have bought 330s, only to find them lacking a certain zing that perhaps a sportier version of a more mundane FWD car would have.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff