RE: VW Golf R Revo Technik: Driven
Discussion
RoverP6B said:
I've known as much since most posters here were in nappies...
Ahem, after mistaking the irregular-firing flat-plan V8 in the Mustang GT350 for a cross-plane...RoverP6B said:
The whole nature of the classic V8 sound, evident in Ford's official videos, is that it's produced by exhaust pulses from opposite banks hitting each other in the exhaust.
Edited by ManOpener on Friday 9th October 15:02
RoverP6B said:
Never made any such mistake. I commented that the GT350 doesn't SOUND like a flat-plane - it's clearly running some kind of odd firing order (possibly adjacent cylinders like in a crossplane?) and has a trick exhaust, so it makes an almost cross-plane sound.
Um, noRoverP6B said:
As for fitting a flat-plane Mustang engine - there's no such thing, they're cross-plane...
RoverP6B said:
The GT350 videos I've seen show that it's clearly a cross-plane
SuperchargedVR6 said:
trails said:
AntiLagGC8 said:
My clutch is all good and is rated for over 450bhp.
I've got to say and although I've got no experience of the R apart from being in a few, I'd place a decent bet on them going wrong fairly often at 450bhp. I say this from experience of high power 2.0 turbo cars. When cars increase power so dramatically, the life of many parts will be drastically shortened (usually) and when owners with little mechanical sympathy then drive them hard the chances of them being reliable are pretty small.
I'd also suggest the Golf will also feel very modified at 450bhp and suffer similar off boost lazyness.
Off boost lazyness is quite a nice thing to have in a quick car...allows you to drive it without crapping yourself all the time and then if you take the time to move that stick thing poking out of the floor you to play when you want to. I've got to say and although I've got no experience of the R apart from being in a few, I'd place a decent bet on them going wrong fairly often at 450bhp. I say this from experience of high power 2.0 turbo cars. When cars increase power so dramatically, the life of many parts will be drastically shortened (usually) and when owners with little mechanical sympathy then drive them hard the chances of them being reliable are pretty small.
I'd also suggest the Golf will also feel very modified at 450bhp and suffer similar off boost lazyness.
It shouldn't go wrong often as Revo replaced the weakest part of the R's engine - the turbo. The DSG box is more than up to the job under normal driving conditions. Repeated full bore launching will reduce the lifespan of any car's drivetrain, let alone a boosted R. It's basic common sense / mechanical sympathy.
As mentioned before, the beefed up EA113 engine fitted to the S3 / Edition 30 Golf has been proven to handle +100hp with ease. The EA888 has/had timing chain issues but is stronger than the old EA113.
The injectors flow 1000cc @ 125bar, or thereabouts. Revo will have discovered a fuel pump shortfall during testing because they data log requested and actual fuel rail pressure readings on the dyno. The fact an uprated pump isn't on the stage 3 parts list suggests it's man enough for 450hp.
I neither love nor hate the R, just putting that out there as I like the tech behind it.
Fair point for off boost power. I really was referring to the bigger turbo.
Usually when a bigger turbo is fitted (but not always!) boost comes on further up the rev range.
In reference to the car taking 450bhp, well I'm going to remain firm on my point that there will be failures and plenty of them comparatively, at least as a good proportion of the Golf's are rented and the costs are steep for the power increase. This isn't a slight on Revo but just a fact that massively increasing stress on mechanical elements will inevitably lead to failures especially if the owners don't exercise some mechanical sympathy.
ManOpener said:
RoverP6B said:
Never made any such mistake. I commented that the GT350 doesn't SOUND like a flat-plane - it's clearly running some kind of odd firing order (possibly adjacent cylinders like in a crossplane?) and has a trick exhaust, so it makes an almost cross-plane sound.
Um, noRoverP6B said:
As for fitting a flat-plane Mustang engine - there's no such thing, they're cross-plane...
RoverP6B said:
The GT350 videos I've seen show that it's clearly a cross-plane
k-ink said:
Pretty much everything. Although I'm sure it'll be a laugh for a month or so 
Alot of people running this power for 2-3 years in the previous 2.0TFSI engine, I ran Stage2+ on that engine.Currently running Stage2 on this current engine and have been for over a year. I know 2 people local to me who have Hybrid stage3 cars, 1 is a Golf R and the other an S3 and both are running perfectly fine and have been for ages.
AntiLagGC8 said:
Usually when a bigger turbo is fitted (but not always!) boost comes on further up the rev range.
In reference to the car taking 450bhp, well I'm going to remain firm on my point that there will be failures and plenty of them comparatively, at least as a good proportion of the Golf's are rented and the costs are steep for the power increase. This isn't a slight on Revo but just a fact that massively increasing stress on mechanical elements will inevitably lead to failures especially if the owners don't exercise some mechanical sympathy.
I've had a big turbo 2.3 4cy engine for over 4 years and covered 110k miles, i blew the old K04 after boosting it to 21psi but the larger turbo worked without fault for many miles.In reference to the car taking 450bhp, well I'm going to remain firm on my point that there will be failures and plenty of them comparatively, at least as a good proportion of the Golf's are rented and the costs are steep for the power increase. This isn't a slight on Revo but just a fact that massively increasing stress on mechanical elements will inevitably lead to failures especially if the owners don't exercise some mechanical sympathy.
I think the Golf will be fine with 450bhp, but as you correctly point out that will require mechanical sympathy, and what i did on top of that was dramatically reduce service intervals so i was changing oil/filters every 4.5k miles with top quality items, spark plugs every 15k and it ran on nothing but Shell v-power.
So it can be done and reliably just as long as it's looked after and the owners accept the extra cost & hassle.
kingofdbrits said:
AntiLagGC8 said:
Usually when a bigger turbo is fitted (but not always!) boost comes on further up the rev range.
In reference to the car taking 450bhp, well I'm going to remain firm on my point that there will be failures and plenty of them comparatively, at least as a good proportion of the Golf's are rented and the costs are steep for the power increase. This isn't a slight on Revo but just a fact that massively increasing stress on mechanical elements will inevitably lead to failures especially if the owners don't exercise some mechanical sympathy.
I've had a big turbo 2.3 4cy engine for over 4 years and covered 110k miles, i blew the old K04 after boosting it to 21psi but the larger turbo worked without fault for many miles.In reference to the car taking 450bhp, well I'm going to remain firm on my point that there will be failures and plenty of them comparatively, at least as a good proportion of the Golf's are rented and the costs are steep for the power increase. This isn't a slight on Revo but just a fact that massively increasing stress on mechanical elements will inevitably lead to failures especially if the owners don't exercise some mechanical sympathy.
I think the Golf will be fine with 450bhp, but as you correctly point out that will require mechanical sympathy, and what i did on top of that was dramatically reduce service intervals so i was changing oil/filters every 4.5k miles with top quality items, spark plugs every 15k and it ran on nothing but Shell v-power.
So it can be done and reliably just as long as it's looked after and the owners accept the extra cost & hassle.
Once you go over a certain level, without forged parts and some other items updated, it becomes a lottery where some cars make it and some don't and I mean out of a range that are driven with a lot of mechanical sympathy.
You're not going to get 50% power increase without some failures when it runs on standard internals.
I'd agree it can be done reliably, the Imprea/EVO gang have it figured out (well, when upgraded by a good quality tuning house) but it generally involves a lot of engine part changes to support and make reliable.
Well my crap French car has managed over 80k being re mapped and has not gone bang yet though it's only probably just about 45 50 horses more, I don't think I could own a turbo car without having a remap tbh it's just to easy to do and all the cars I have had mapped have always been ok it's the gearboxes and cv joints that generally don't like it first In my experience but having said that it all depends on the car and weather you have a bit of mechanical sympathy
ManOpener said:
RoverP6B said:
Never made any such mistake. I commented that the GT350 doesn't SOUND like a flat-plane - it's clearly running some kind of odd firing order (possibly adjacent cylinders like in a crossplane?) and has a trick exhaust, so it makes an almost cross-plane sound.
Um, noRoverP6B said:
As for fitting a flat-plane Mustang engine - there's no such thing, they're cross-plane...
RoverP6B said:
The GT350 videos I've seen show that it's clearly a cross-plane
Mk5 gti with 560bhp is on the road somewhere I'm pretty sure its the fastest in the uk. My friend has just sold it after spending 30k on a complete overhaul thanks to TSR. I'll upload a link if it will let me .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAJgqwYWrX0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAJgqwYWrX0
Cider farmer bristolan said:
Mk5 gti with 560bhp is on the road somewhere I'm pretty sure its the fastest in the uk. My friend has just sold it after spending 30k on a complete overhaul thanks to TSR. I'll upload a link if it will let me .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAJgqwYWrX0
Impossible. The gearbox must have fallen out, engine exploded and doors come off according to some posters. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAJgqwYWrX0
St John Smythe said:
Cider farmer bristolan said:
Mk5 gti with 560bhp is on the road somewhere I'm pretty sure its the fastest in the uk. My friend has just sold it after spending 30k on a complete overhaul thanks to TSR. I'll upload a link if it will let me .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAJgqwYWrX0
Impossible. The gearbox must have fallen out, engine exploded and doors come off according to some posters. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAJgqwYWrX0
AntiLagGC8 said:
St John Smythe said:
Cider farmer bristolan said:
Mk5 gti with 560bhp is on the road somewhere I'm pretty sure its the fastest in the uk. My friend has just sold it after spending 30k on a complete overhaul thanks to TSR. I'll upload a link if it will let me .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAJgqwYWrX0
Impossible. The gearbox must have fallen out, engine exploded and doors come off according to some posters. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAJgqwYWrX0
St John Smythe said:
AntiLagGC8 said:
St John Smythe said:
Cider farmer bristolan said:
Mk5 gti with 560bhp is on the road somewhere I'm pretty sure its the fastest in the uk. My friend has just sold it after spending 30k on a complete overhaul thanks to TSR. I'll upload a link if it will let me .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAJgqwYWrX0
Impossible. The gearbox must have fallen out, engine exploded and doors come off according to some posters. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WAJgqwYWrX0
If they are well engineered you can remove some of the issues however when you're at that level sometimes things just inexplicably break. My 2.0t car is running far less power and has been fairly reliable but occasionally things just go wrong! It's a trade off you have to accept making so much power from such a small engine.
Still the Golf in that video looks great!
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