RE: VW Golf R Revo Technik: Driven
Discussion
225bhp/l.... on a road car engine... I cant think of any normal cars with this kind of power to displacement. High end engines perhaps but not something in a hot hatch.
That's pretty crazy. Not out of the ball park but IME anything over 150 needs special attention to detail as said above, things like rods and crank start to really become critical. Things like valves also become critical. I wonder what spec they have on them.
That's pretty crazy. Not out of the ball park but IME anything over 150 needs special attention to detail as said above, things like rods and crank start to really become critical. Things like valves also become critical. I wonder what spec they have on them.
Scottie - NW said:
Speaking as someone who have been running a 2 litre 4 cylinder turbo car now for 11 years, with the last 5 at 400bhp a few questions pop into my head...
...clutch, transmission, diff etc. Some standing starts and sticky tyres don't give me much hope here for longevity. I countered this by using an ACT extreme organic clutch, rebuilt gearbox with OS Giken internals and uprated diff.
...engine. If this engine does not come as standard with forged pistons, uprated conrods and seriously good bearings etc I would worry.
It's also worth matching cams to the turbo. I went with 256 Tomei ones to match the 2871 Garret turbo.
The fuelling system on the Golf must also have a ridiculous amount of extra in it as well, I guess the standard injectors must be at east 740cc range plus way overspecced pump to flow that much.
Obviously 450bhp can be done reliably from 2 litres, but it can also be done not so reliably!
Thanks, this is the kind of info we should really be discussing. Real life experience of 'stressed' motors. Headline bhp and performance figures can be a little reckless if not explained and backed up by people like yourself....clutch, transmission, diff etc. Some standing starts and sticky tyres don't give me much hope here for longevity. I countered this by using an ACT extreme organic clutch, rebuilt gearbox with OS Giken internals and uprated diff.
...engine. If this engine does not come as standard with forged pistons, uprated conrods and seriously good bearings etc I would worry.
It's also worth matching cams to the turbo. I went with 256 Tomei ones to match the 2871 Garret turbo.
The fuelling system on the Golf must also have a ridiculous amount of extra in it as well, I guess the standard injectors must be at east 740cc range plus way overspecced pump to flow that much.
Obviously 450bhp can be done reliably from 2 litres, but it can also be done not so reliably!
Jimbo
JMF894 said:
Scottie - NW said:
Speaking as someone who have been running a 2 litre 4 cylinder turbo car now for 11 years, with the last 5 at 400bhp a few questions pop into my head...
...clutch, transmission, diff etc. Some standing starts and sticky tyres don't give me much hope here for longevity. I countered this by using an ACT extreme organic clutch, rebuilt gearbox with OS Giken internals and uprated diff.
...engine. If this engine does not come as standard with forged pistons, uprated conrods and seriously good bearings etc I would worry.
It's also worth matching cams to the turbo. I went with 256 Tomei ones to match the 2871 Garret turbo.
The fuelling system on the Golf must also have a ridiculous amount of extra in it as well, I guess the standard injectors must be at east 740cc range plus way overspecced pump to flow that much.
Obviously 450bhp can be done reliably from 2 litres, but it can also be done not so reliably!
Thanks, this is the kind of info we should really be discussing. Real life experience of 'stressed' motors. Headline bhp and performance figures can be a little reckless if not explained and backed up by people like yourself....clutch, transmission, diff etc. Some standing starts and sticky tyres don't give me much hope here for longevity. I countered this by using an ACT extreme organic clutch, rebuilt gearbox with OS Giken internals and uprated diff.
...engine. If this engine does not come as standard with forged pistons, uprated conrods and seriously good bearings etc I would worry.
It's also worth matching cams to the turbo. I went with 256 Tomei ones to match the 2871 Garret turbo.
The fuelling system on the Golf must also have a ridiculous amount of extra in it as well, I guess the standard injectors must be at east 740cc range plus way overspecced pump to flow that much.
Obviously 450bhp can be done reliably from 2 litres, but it can also be done not so reliably!
Jimbo
Scottie - NW said:
...engine. If this engine does not come as standard with forged pistons, uprated conrods and seriously good bearings etc I would worry.
The fuelling system on the Golf must also have a ridiculous amount of extra in it as well, I guess the standard injectors must be at east 740cc range plus way overspecced pump to flow that much.
The factory engine doesn't have forged pistons. It is an interesting power upgrade but I'd be concerned about the mods shortening the life somewhat. TBH I'm surprised there isn't an upgraded HPFP fitted but ho hum. The fuelling system on the Golf must also have a ridiculous amount of extra in it as well, I guess the standard injectors must be at east 740cc range plus way overspecced pump to flow that much.
The RS3 2.5l lump has forged steel con rods and A45 2.0l lump has forged pistons and con rods read into that what you will. At near on 10k for the kit it makes me wonder if buying either of the other two new or used and lightly modifying wouldn't be more sensible terms of performance vs £££.
BadgerBox said:
It sounds like a staggeringly quick little Golf!
However, if I spent all that money on the upgrades, I would hope they could of spent a little more effort getting the logo on straight...
I would be worried about the paintwork as well.However, if I spent all that money on the upgrades, I would hope they could of spent a little more effort getting the logo on straight...
Although I am a fan of Revo, I had a mk5 8 years back they used as a demo.
Tickle said:
You could see there faces one more time again too as they passed under braking into the first bend 
Mightily impressive stats and off the line acceleration if that's your bag though.
Too true, you need some serious stopping power to compliment the engine upgrade...Mightily impressive stats and off the line acceleration if that's your bag though.
Still, de-badged this would be one hell of a sleeper...
Itsallicanafford said:
Tickle said:
You could see there faces one more time again too as they passed under braking into the first bend
Mightily impressive stats and off the line acceleration if that's your bag though.
Too true, you need some serious stopping power to compliment the engine upgrade...Mightily impressive stats and off the line acceleration if that's your bag though.
Still, de-badged this would be one hell of a sleeper...
AntiLagGC8 said:
Oz83 said:
So how come this car is so driveable with 450 horsepower, whereas Evos and Subarus of old running similar figures weren't?
What makes you say that? I've got a 350bhp Impreza Classic that has zero issues and I've also been in 450 cars that are very driveable. A lot I guess depends on the suspension and the way the power is delivered as there are many routes for this. The Golf is also much heavier than a Impreza Classic which I'd imagine helps.My car is a converted twin scroll (VF37) that gets going early and has a wide but very progressive power band. It's very easy to drive and will only bite if its driven without any consideration for what it can do.
However going out in a rotated GT35 can be a somewhat wild experience! 550+ Impreza classics are a handful.
This one looks fun! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ww91Q9nVoY
I've been in a quite a few modified Evos/Subarus and from my experience the ones running circa 450bhp+ always felt a bit laggy and 'modified'. Blisteringly fast on boost, but it usually came on in the mid to high rev range and if you were in the wrong gear exiting a bend you really knew about it. Not to mention the clutches on those things. It once took me 5 attempts to move an Evo off the car park. Possibly down to my crap skills but 'driveable' they certainly were not.
If the DSG box and clutches copes with 450bhp smoothly and reliably then I'm seriously impressed. How over-engineered are these cars to begin with?
lord trumpton said:
Oz83 said:
So how come this car is so driveable with 450 horsepower, whereas Evos and Subarus of old running similar figures weren't?
Because the 'review' is paid for by Revo - so it drives exactly as they say it does. Shambler said:
I was under the impression that the DSG gearbox was rated to a maximum of 280lb ft of torque.
IIRC the 6 speed Getrag gearbox found in the MK4 Supra is rated to circa 540lb/ft. There are many Supras in the US running well over 1000lb/ft torque through them regularly and reliably. Given my DSG box went caput after the previous owner had launched it a number of times - I'd be worried about the gearbox first of all (if the clutch packs haven't been upgraded).
Revo themselves recommend uprated engine internals for anything over 400bhp on their website for the Mk6 R and Scirocco R and these both ran the EA113 engine which is in theory a tougher block.
ETA: I do however have quite a high level of sympathy for Revo when it comes to people's perceived weakness of tuned cars. I would imagine [sweeping generalisation alert warning] that a high proportion of Revo's customers with cars such as the Golf R are young lads who have got a cracking deal from VW on the car and want it toyed with purely to impress their friends. As such, they treat the car with no degree of mechanical sympathy as they have no long-term commitment to the car e.g. not allowing the oil to warm up before ragging it around everywhere, launching at every available opportunity etc. I would imagine that has to contribute significantly to the latest crop of Golf R engine failures.
Revo themselves recommend uprated engine internals for anything over 400bhp on their website for the Mk6 R and Scirocco R and these both ran the EA113 engine which is in theory a tougher block.
ETA: I do however have quite a high level of sympathy for Revo when it comes to people's perceived weakness of tuned cars. I would imagine [sweeping generalisation alert warning] that a high proportion of Revo's customers with cars such as the Golf R are young lads who have got a cracking deal from VW on the car and want it toyed with purely to impress their friends. As such, they treat the car with no degree of mechanical sympathy as they have no long-term commitment to the car e.g. not allowing the oil to warm up before ragging it around everywhere, launching at every available opportunity etc. I would imagine that has to contribute significantly to the latest crop of Golf R engine failures.
Edited by MrBarry123 on Tuesday 6th October 23:59
b0rk said:
The factory engine doesn't have forged pistons. It is an interesting power upgrade but I'd be concerned about the mods shortening the life somewhat. TBH I'm surprised there isn't an upgraded HPFP fitted but ho hum.
The RS3 2.5l lump has forged steel con rods and A45 2.0l lump has forged pistons and con rods read into that what you will. At near on 10k for the kit it makes me wonder if buying either of the other two new or used and lightly modifying wouldn't be more sensible terms of performance vs £££.
This is the first thing I thought of as well. You would be mad to be pushing that much power on a non forged motor. If you got the money to be throwing at new engines when it blows up then why not spend it on something else in the first place? I would also wonder how the haldex takes all this new power from a reliability perspective. It is not like the old group A derived permanent 4WD for taking all that extra power.The RS3 2.5l lump has forged steel con rods and A45 2.0l lump has forged pistons and con rods read into that what you will. At near on 10k for the kit it makes me wonder if buying either of the other two new or used and lightly modifying wouldn't be more sensible terms of performance vs £££.
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