RE: VW Golf R Revo Technik: Driven

[ManOpener]

Tickle said:

rb5er said:

RoverP6B said:

a turbo four is never going to make a driver's car.

Surely not serious?

I have heard some crap spoken on PH but this must be up there.

I hear these were mediocre at best :

22b
EVO TME
Intergrale EVO
VX220 Turbo
R26.R
Esprit SE

Let's not forget Formula 2 cars. They're most definitely not driver's cars, are they

Also: Megane 275 Cup, Mini John Cooper Works, Prodrive P2, Toyota MR2 Turbo...

[KM666]

ManOpener said:

Tickle said:

rb5er said:

RoverP6B said:

a turbo four is never going to make a driver's car.

Surely not serious?

I have heard some crap spoken on PH but this must be up there.

I hear these were mediocre at best :

22b
EVO TME
Intergrale EVO
VX220 Turbo
R26.R
Esprit SE

Let's not forget Formula 2 cars. They're most definitely not driver's cars, are they

Also: Megane 275 Cup, Mini John Cooper Works, Prodrive P2, Toyota MR2 Turbo...

In the context of VAG I agree with OP. Hateful overrated heaps o' crap.

I also recall being aggressively tailgated by a Golf R after passing one in a TDI Passat doing some road testing. Seems the spanners already have access to the R.

Edited by KM666 on Thursday 8th October 14:19

[andrewparker]

KM666 said:

ManOpener said:

Tickle said:

rb5er said:

RoverP6B said:

a turbo four is never going to make a driver's car.

Surely not serious?

I have heard some crap spoken on PH but this must be up there.

I hear these were mediocre at best :

22b
EVO TME
Intergrale EVO
VX220 Turbo
R26.R
Esprit SE

Let's not forget Formula 2 cars. They're most definitely not driver's cars, are they

Also: Megane 275 Cup, Mini John Cooper Works, Prodrive P2, Toyota MR2 Turbo...

In the context of VAG I agree with OP. Hateful overrated heaps o' crap.

I also recall being aggressively tailgated by a Golf R after passing one in a TDI Passat doing some road testing. Seems the spanners already have access to the R.

Edited by KM666 on Thursday 8th October 14:19

I get aggressively tailgated by someone in a dark green Octavia VRS on a regular basis. What does that say about people who own them?

Also, how can you refer to VAG cars as overrated heaps when you appear to own a Skoda?

[KM666]

andrewparker said:

I get aggressively tailgated by someone in a dark green Octavia VRS on a regular basis. What does that say about people who own them?

Also, how can you refer to VAG cars as overrated heaps when you appear to own a Skoda?

It says they hate their life because they drive a dullard VAG.

Because I own a Skoda. I was suckered in by all the nice things people say about VAG and their super tunable 20vt engine only to realise that it isnt just the worst car i've ever owned, it ranks stone cold last against a £300 Megane Coupe and a mk4 Astra that broke down alot, but the worst car i've ever driven. A Mercedes Sprinter van has comparable steering feel.

I did test drive it but the novelty of heated leather and pss-tssh noises clouded my judgement.

[andrewparker]

Butt hurt because you own a car you don't like. Ouch.

[KM666]

I'm more irritated that VAG products get such positive reviews for such objectively mediocre products. Soft touch plastics and a glovebox stuffed full of £20 notes on press cars does not a drivers car make.

The amount of VAG sponsored content makes me hate them even more.

That they could get the seating position so wrong in the new Passat demonstrates to me the contempt in which VAG hold their customers.

Edited by KM666 on Thursday 8th October 19:44

[andrewparker]

Well it's either one big conspiracy... or you just don't get on with them. Plus, most people don't judge cars objectively, emotion is always a factor.

[RoverP6B]

tomjol said:

Stock parts such as the engine they don't make (or at least, fit to anything) anymore, the rear-biased AWD system which doesn't fit transverse-engined cars, and the gearbox to with them?

Full-time 4WD has been done with transverse engines, and VW is bound still to have a stockholding of VR6 spares. Isn't it still fitted to the Skoda Superb?

andrewparker said:

St John Smythe said:

RoverP6B said:

a turbo four is never going to make a driver's car.

Incorrect.

I wonder whether the same will be said once Porsche are putting them in Boxsters and Caymans?

Yes. A turbocharged four-cylinder engine does not make for a real driver's car. Flat four is better than inline four, but Beetles, 356s and Imprezas still sound rough.

ManOpener said:

Tickle said:

rb5er said:

RoverP6B said:

a turbo four is never going to make a driver's car.

Surely not serious? I have heard some crap spoken on PH but this must be up there.

I hear these were mediocre at best :

22b
EVO TME
Integrale EVO
VX220 Turbo
R26.R
Esprit SE

Let's not forget Formula 2 cars. They're most definitely not driver's cars, are they

Also: Megane 275 Cup, Mini John Cooper Works, Prodrive P2, Toyota MR2 Turbo...

Don't like any of those, wouldn't have a single one of 'em in my notional Jay Leno-scale dream garage. For the most part those engines were adopted for economic rather than engineering reasons. The Megane R26 would have been better with a N/A V6 (and RWD). The VX220? Rather have a V6 Exige. Delta Integrale? Never saw the appeal, and Harry Metcalfe's swift sale of his example because he wasn't getting on with it only confirmed my view of it. Esprit? If I had to have one with the drivetrain Hethel put in it, it'd be the V8, but I'd prefer to convert it to a V6. Evo? Chavmobile. The Subaru is the only one which even slightly piques my interest, but even then I'd rather use a flat-six Legacy as the basis of a rally car.

[anonymous-user]

RoverAntiqueRustBucket - I've had all sorts over the years and 4 pots certainly can make very decent 'drivers' cars.

[AntiLagGC8]

trails said:

AntiLagGC8 said:

My clutch is all good and is rated for over 450bhp.

I've got to say and although I've got no experience of the R apart from being in a few, I'd place a decent bet on them going wrong fairly often at 450bhp. I say this from experience of high power 2.0 turbo cars. When cars increase power so dramatically, the life of many parts will be drastically shortened (usually) and when owners with little mechanical sympathy then drive them hard the chances of them being reliable are pretty small.

I'd also suggest the Golf will also feel very modified at 450bhp and suffer similar off boost lazyness.

Off boost lazyness is quite a nice thing to have in a quick car...allows you to drive it without crapping yourself all the time and then if you take the time to move that stick thing poking out of the floor you to play when you want to.

My car does that when in a high gear at low revs.

Thanks to the front mount + K+N induction kit, it also sounds like a jet plane as the turbo builds boost. I can also induce compressor surge which sounds wonderful however the engine builder recommends I change down to avoid doing that as it isn't great for the turbo!

[ManOpener]

RoverP6b said:

Don't like any of those

Whether or not you like them is largely irrelevant; they're all renowned as fantastic driver's cars so, as usual, you're talking ste.

[rb5er]

ManOpener said:

RoverP6b said:

Don't like any of those

Whether or not you like them is largely irrelevant; they're all renowned as fantastic driver's cars.

Indeed.

[markcoznottz]

St John Smythe said:

RoverAntiqueRustBucket - I've had all sorts over the years and 4 pots certainly can make very decent 'drivers' cars.

Don't feed him, Is he related to 300 bhp???

[RoverP6B]

No, I'm not 300bhp/ton, although that suggestion has been made from time to time. That we are two different people was confirmed when we had a massive argument over the relative merits of V8s and straight sixes.

While I'm sure there are some cars with four-cylinder engines that drive well - they do so in spite, not because, of their engines. An inline four cannot make a nice sound - it's either a dull drone or an unmusical buzzsaw blare. Same goes for flat-plane-crank V8s. Sixes and twelves make a much nicer sound.

[daniel1920]

RoverP6B said:

No, I'm not 300bhp/ton, although that suggestion has been made from time to time. That we are two different people was confirmed when we had a massive argument over the relative merits of V8s and straight sixes.

People who see discussions as arguments are best to be avoided

[RoverP6B]

daniel1920 said:

People who see discussions as arguments are best to be avoided

I didn't want it to be an argument but he came crashing in with all the subtlety of a bull in a china shop...

[SuperchargedVR6]

trails said:

AntiLagGC8 said:

My clutch is all good and is rated for over 450bhp.

I've got to say and although I've got no experience of the R apart from being in a few, I'd place a decent bet on them going wrong fairly often at 450bhp. I say this from experience of high power 2.0 turbo cars. When cars increase power so dramatically, the life of many parts will be drastically shortened (usually) and when owners with little mechanical sympathy then drive them hard the chances of them being reliable are pretty small.

I'd also suggest the Golf will also feel very modified at 450bhp and suffer similar off boost lazyness.

Off boost lazyness is quite a nice thing to have in a quick car...allows you to drive it without crapping yourself all the time and then if you take the time to move that stick thing poking out of the floor you to play when you want to.

280lbft by 1800rpm seems to suggest it's far from lazy low down. For reference, the MK5 R32's peak of 236lbft arrived 700rpm later.

It shouldn't go wrong often as Revo replaced the weakest part of the R's engine - the turbo. The DSG box is more than up to the job under normal driving conditions. Repeated full bore launching will reduce the lifespan of any car's drivetrain, let alone a boosted R. It's basic common sense / mechanical sympathy.

As mentioned before, the beefed up EA113 engine fitted to the S3 / Edition 30 Golf has been proven to handle +100hp with ease. The EA888 has/had timing chain issues but is stronger than the old EA113.

The injectors flow 1000cc @ 125bar, or thereabouts. Revo will have discovered a fuel pump shortfall during testing because they data log requested and actual fuel rail pressure readings on the dyno. The fact an uprated pump isn't on the stage 3 parts list suggests it's man enough for 450hp.

I neither love nor hate the R, just putting that out there as I like the tech behind it.

[ManOpener]

RoverP6B said:

No, I'm not 300bhp/ton

No, as an American car aficionado at least he knows the basic differences between flat-plane and cross-plane V8s.

[RoverP6B]

ManOpener said:

No, as an American car aficionado at least he knows the basic differences between flat-plane and cross-plane V8s.

As do I... flat-plane, 180-degree crankpin spacing between opposing cylinders, requires balancer shafts to keep it smooth, sounds and fires like a pair of 4-pots. Cross-plane, 90-degree crankpin spacing, heavily counterweighted crankshaft, firing adjacent cylinders in each bank, hence the burble...

[ManOpener]

RoverP6B said:

ManOpener said:

No, as an American car aficionado at least he knows the basic differences between flat-plane and cross-plane V8s.

As do I... flat-plane, 180-degree crankpin spacing between opposing cylinders, requires balancer shafts to keep it smooth, sounds and fires like a pair of 4-pots. Cross-plane, 90-degree crankpin spacing, heavily counterweighted crankshaft, firing adjacent cylinders in each bank, hence the burble...

Now perhaps...