RE: BMW M4 GTS - full details
Discussion
I think some people are missing the point a little - it hardly likely to be someone's only car - it will be part of a collection, so comparing it to RS6's, M5's etc is just silly. I'm also fairly certain this would destroy any of those alternatives round a track, and give the more expensive 991 GT3 RS a run for it's money (8 seconds slower than the 911 going by official figures).
Which you prefer is up to you, but I would take the M4 GTS in a heartbeat. And looking at M3 GTS prices, I wouldn't say it was too bad an investment.
Which you prefer is up to you, but I would take the M4 GTS in a heartbeat. And looking at M3 GTS prices, I wouldn't say it was too bad an investment.
I love the old stuff too but I find there is no dichotomy between old and new, owners of both who use them properly seem to get on. The guy buying the M4 GTS already probably owns classic stuff and tracks it etc.
I don't think the PH massive reflects true enthusiast ownership, way too much reverse snobbery for that.
I don't think the PH massive reflects true enthusiast ownership, way too much reverse snobbery for that.
I think we've entered an era of performance cars in so much as the performance is certainly there but the way it is obtained has become less and less engineering led.
Without blaming any particular driver, (legislation, emissions etc) this was always going to happen with forced induction, as soon as it became technically possible to run large amounts of boost without the associated penalties to fuel consumption and transient performance.
To achieve the character of M cars with forced induction is impressive, however now that this has happened it is relatively straightforward to eke more and more out of this baseline without really going extreme with any other aspect of the vehicle, especially the other stuff that is less easy to do (weight management, trim level management).
This is why a GTS model has appeared with a Halfords spoiler and SatNav. It does absolutely nothing for me, it is almost cynical in its execution.
Without blaming any particular driver, (legislation, emissions etc) this was always going to happen with forced induction, as soon as it became technically possible to run large amounts of boost without the associated penalties to fuel consumption and transient performance.
To achieve the character of M cars with forced induction is impressive, however now that this has happened it is relatively straightforward to eke more and more out of this baseline without really going extreme with any other aspect of the vehicle, especially the other stuff that is less easy to do (weight management, trim level management).
This is why a GTS model has appeared with a Halfords spoiler and SatNav. It does absolutely nothing for me, it is almost cynical in its execution.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Not knowing you as a driver, it's really difficult to draw conclusions about your experience of the M3. Maybe it's subjective - maybe you don't appreciate things the same way as others do, maybe image is too important to you. Others might be able to see beyond the tackiness/newness/flashiness that you often mention. CS Garth said:
ZX10R NIN said:
the E46 M3 engine was nothing special
You are kidding aren't you? The S54 is acknowledged as one of the finest N/A 6 cyls ever produced and in my view one of the best engines ever madeRoverP6B said:
Exactly... the S54 may be heavy for what it is (can't help but feel that it would have been better with an alloy block and slightly smaller bore) but the sound it makes, the throttle response... it made even the S65 seem ordinary in comparison,
Had both the S54 and S65 and I am not sure that the S54 makes the S65 seem ordinary though, I agree the S54 is more fizzy than the S65 but for me the S65 batters the S54 on its top end. Both engines are a little torque light for me personally though but I suppose beggars cant be chooses because the current M engines have bucket loads of torque but have lost their character according to most, yet I do think the current engines make for a better road car whereas the S54/S65 suit the track environment more.
RoverP6B said:
Lee, in terms of modern engines with both mid-range thump and a bonkers top end, how about the M-B M156... there's a motor with character. First time I heard one in the flesh, I couldn't believe my ears - it was so bloody loud! Such a shame it's been killed off.
Completely agree its a cracking engine and like you I love the sound of it and when I have been behind a C63 AMG and they have gunned it...not only did it sound awesome but it went like the clappers too.I would love to experience it one day for myself and I have always been a sucker for a large capacity engine and 6.2 Litres certainly gets my juices flowing.
I reckon Franchitti is quite able to distinguish a road car from a track car too (let alone a racing one) and pass judgement accordingly while making your average road driving journo look a little ill equipped.
As for delusion of driving grandeur, I am not sure who you refer to but if that's me, I am a pretty poor crap track driver, and therefore humble enough to listen to those in the know rather than your average bloke off PH.
As for delusion of driving grandeur, I am not sure who you refer to but if that's me, I am a pretty poor crap track driver, and therefore humble enough to listen to those in the know rather than your average bloke off PH.
Of course, no legendary BMW has ever driven round with a look of "I've just been covered in glue and crashed into Demon Tweeks".
Oh.
They've never combined this with a turbocharged engine though!
Ah. I see.
Or in fact I don't see, there doesn't seem to be much in the M4 GTS that isn't the product of 40 years of evolution from the guys in Garching - OK cars may not have evolved in quite the way we would like, but not to be able to see any BMW-ness in the GTS strikes me as being willfully blind to it.
And I won;t even go there on how a picture example of what an M3 should be like contains many extraneous spoilers and an M3 GTS - the predecessor to this very car. I'm not saying everyone has to like the M4 GTS, but a little logic to the arguments wouldn't go amiss.....
Oh.
They've never combined this with a turbocharged engine though!
Ah. I see.
Or in fact I don't see, there doesn't seem to be much in the M4 GTS that isn't the product of 40 years of evolution from the guys in Garching - OK cars may not have evolved in quite the way we would like, but not to be able to see any BMW-ness in the GTS strikes me as being willfully blind to it.
And I won;t even go there on how a picture example of what an M3 should be like contains many extraneous spoilers and an M3 GTS - the predecessor to this very car. I'm not saying everyone has to like the M4 GTS, but a little logic to the arguments wouldn't go amiss.....
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