RE: BMW M4 GTS - full details
Discussion
RoverP6B said:
The M3/4 engine sounds like a diesel because it's heavily turbocharged. If they took the turbos off and whacked up the compression ratio it'd sound a lot better.
Cmoose don't you mean it was something you added as I'm looking at the above statement & don't see those words 
RoverP6B said:
CorvetteConvert said:
But it would have 80 bhp less and about 150 lbft less.
Perhaps, so what? I'd gladly make the performance sacrifice for some character, make the car enjoyable at legal speeds.981C said:
There's plenty of character in the M3/4 engine. Its biggest issue is that it starts making peak power at 5500rpm and is then flat-lined for another 2100 rpm. There's also a little too much torque in the low end and mid range. If they flattened out the low end torque and made the engine feel a little more peaky at the top end it would go someway to improving the experience, but would also make it a little slower, which they can't afford to given the competition's using 8 cylinders. All a result of smaller displacement and turbos that reduce airflow at very high rpms.
Oh I'm sure it could have plenty of character but as you correctly state, the small turbo's, the prioritisation of low end torque at the expense of top end fireworks and the current obsession to try to mask any and all turbo characteristics makes it dull IMO. When I say heavily turbocharged I mean a car that lets out the character of a turbo engine, which can be rather enjoyable, rather than trying it's damnedest to mask it. I've been saying this for ages, we've even had articles on this on PH but there is absolutely no reason why a turbocharged car can't be exciting and characterful, it's just that manufacturers seem to be trying their hardest to remove any\all character from modern turbo engines and I really can't work out why?
The only thing I can think of is that the transient properties of a properly turbocharged engine can make them unpredictable and therefore potentially unsafe, old Porsche Turbo's got the "widowmaker" moniker for exactly this reason, I guess in this brave new world of the blame culture it's too much of a risk to let drivers be responsible for a car which isn't deemed "safe".
RoverP6B said:
The CSL looks the way it does for sound racing reasons. The 2002 was a response to the oil crisis, a way of getting (for its time) strong power from a small engine.
Here we go again.....you really ought to do your research a bit better 
The 2002Turbo wasn't a product of the oil-crisis, the oil crisis was one of the reasons the 2002Turbo didn't sell being launched just as the oil crisis hit.
The 2002Turbo was BMW's road car evolution of the past 5+ years of using turbo charged engines in it's saloon/touring car racing programs. BMW Motorsport were using turbo's in it's racing engine development in the 1960's.
In fact apart from the E9 CSL, almost all it's racing engine developments were turbo into the early 80's F1 program.
All this BMW n/a only rubbish is only for those not old enough to know better or just too blinkered to reality.
CorvetteConvert said:
Spend 5 grand on an Alfa 147 6-pot then. Great sound, loads of character and enough power!
147 isn't my cup of tea but I have considered a 166 with the same engine......but I would like both BMW and Alfa Romeo to go back to their roots with N/A sixes howling away...
...and yes, BMW raced turbo cars for years. However, we're talking road cars, which isn't the same thing at all...
...and perhaps I got my chronology on the 2002 a tad muxed-ip.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Although I have had a couple of torque laden diesels which do encourage a lazy nature because they have all their grunt only a toe flick away, I too think its a shame they have gone and my old Z4M and V8 M3 engines did have lots of depth and character when compared to a blown motor. I am still clinging onto the old days with the N52 in my 330i and although its hardly a fireball it does at least have a little bit of character and I appreciate it for what it is, I am not against a Turbo petrol either but it would be nice if we could still choose between the two.
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