RE: BMW M4 GTS - full details
Discussion
shigs said:
Angus, I don't think anyone here misses the point you are trying to make.
Now I do not wish to speak on behalf of the majority of the guys&gals on PH but there used to be a time (CSL comes to mind) where exclusivity wasn't the only selling point. Yes we live in a crazy world of 0% interest rates and money is flowing like never before, but this shouldn't mean manufacturers become lazy, stick a halfords spoiler on a production car, limit its numbers and charge twice the price!
If they ripped some serious weight out of the car, and made more of an effort with that terrible spoiler, perhaps most would feel different EVEN if the price stayed the same.
I really hope BMW get it right with the M2, as imo AMG is kicking their ass atm.
The problem is that we have created this problem buy buying these cars at hiked up prices and also when the manufacturers look at the used market on cars like this and see where it is going you cant blame them. Its like the Apple vs PC/ Android argument, Macs/Apples are great for certain things (Audio & video production, photography and design work) but as a whole most people buy them as lifestyle choices because how they look or just because "ive got the new iphone 6S" and you haven't.Now I do not wish to speak on behalf of the majority of the guys&gals on PH but there used to be a time (CSL comes to mind) where exclusivity wasn't the only selling point. Yes we live in a crazy world of 0% interest rates and money is flowing like never before, but this shouldn't mean manufacturers become lazy, stick a halfords spoiler on a production car, limit its numbers and charge twice the price!
If they ripped some serious weight out of the car, and made more of an effort with that terrible spoiler, perhaps most would feel different EVEN if the price stayed the same.
I really hope BMW get it right with the M2, as imo AMG is kicking their ass atm.
At the end of the day if some one told you that you could charge double for the same product just by changing a couple of small bits and making it a limited edition you would and any one who say they wouldn't is a liar!
Simple business really and in 25yrs time when there is no petrol or diesel left, the person who has one of these in mint condition wont be saying how the spoiler looks budget or how it wasnt that much better over the standard car they'll be saying "you want it, that'll be 700k please" or what ever ridiculous figure it will be worth.
gregf40 said:
j90gta said:
It is grossly overpriced; but will inevitably sell out!
So it's not overpriced then...We've seen it lots of times before that making what seems like small alterations can really refine and change a car completely. 24 seconds faster than the standard car has to mean something.
Lots of the bodywork and interior has changed too, even if it does'nt look too wild. The bonnet is now carbon, as is the adjustable front splitter, rear spoiler and rear diffuser. The interior is completely different, being covered in alacantra, with carbon seats and lightweight centre console, new door trims etc. Add a new sports titanium exhaust system, light alloys and OLED tailights and you're quickly stacking up quite a hefty bill.
I don't think the price is outrageous. The 991 Carrera S laps the ring in 7:37.90, with the 991 GT3 RS lapping in 7:20. Thats only a 17 second difference and you're looking at a similar price differential between the two models there.
At the end of the day, if you want the ultimate trim/spec level of a certain car, you're always going to pay a premium for that.
Lots of the bodywork and interior has changed too, even if it does'nt look too wild. The bonnet is now carbon, as is the adjustable front splitter, rear spoiler and rear diffuser. The interior is completely different, being covered in alacantra, with carbon seats and lightweight centre console, new door trims etc. Add a new sports titanium exhaust system, light alloys and OLED tailights and you're quickly stacking up quite a hefty bill.
I don't think the price is outrageous. The 991 Carrera S laps the ring in 7:37.90, with the 991 GT3 RS lapping in 7:20. Thats only a 17 second difference and you're looking at a similar price differential between the two models there.
At the end of the day, if you want the ultimate trim/spec level of a certain car, you're always going to pay a premium for that.
Edited by Carlique on Wednesday 7th October 13:33
dc2rr07 said:
Could not agree more, article says 'a serious weight saving diet' 
.
apparently it's actually 80kg - at least according to autocar."All of the weight-saving measures shed 80kg"
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-493...
you can kind of add the extras up to from 60k to 120k inflated bmw price style as:
CCM's - 6,250k (these are an optional extra on the standard car)
carbon bonnet - 3k
carbon seats - 9k
interior misc bits- 3k
caron door panels - 5k
rear spoiler - 4k
front splitter -3k
roll cage - 8k
wheels - 5k
engine upgrades/cooling - 15k
total - ~£121,000
GTEYE said:
Perhaps the fact that only 30 of the 700 production run (4.3%) are destined for the UK suggests they had already anticipated the response on this particular website....
Yes, it is the price of a starter home for a jazzed up 3 series at the end of the day.You would either have to be very wealthy or pretty damn sure the market is going to embrace it.
GTEYE said:
Perhaps the fact that only 30 of the 700 production run (4.3%) are destined for the UK suggests they had already anticipated the response on this particular website....
Absolutely, as I am sure your average PHer daytime poster would have been the core target despite not grasping neither the law of diminishing returns nor basic supply/demand economics. I am on gardening leave btw ;-).But we're reading this in the UK (Mostly)
A country designated 30 cars.
What have BMW allocated for China/UAE/Saudi?
Countries where carbon fibre is tasteful, gold rims normal and £120k is earned over a lunchtime looking at your oil wells...
Anything under £100k for a limited run car would be an insult
A country designated 30 cars.
What have BMW allocated for China/UAE/Saudi?
Countries where carbon fibre is tasteful, gold rims normal and £120k is earned over a lunchtime looking at your oil wells...
Anything under £100k for a limited run car would be an insult
AngusDavie said:
Its like the Apple vs PC/ Android argument, Macs/Apples are great for certain things (Audio & video production, photography and design work) but as a whole most people buy them as lifestyle choices because how they look or just because "ive got the new iphone 6S" and you haven't.
Interesting analogy, actually. Residuals on Apple gear are pretty remarkable compared to similar products (particularly laptops), even after daily/constant use.Buy an M4 GTS and your all but guaranteed that it will be worth a tidy, tidy sum in future.
CS Garth said:
Good debate on here, I see both sides but by any objective measure the price does not represent good value - the profit margin will be vast. The water injector was on the Evo 6 back in '99 FFS so a bit gimmicky to me. Good taste? That's subjective. Exclusivity. Undoubtedly. But then you could buy a manual E46 CS for about 16k and there are about 75 of those in the UK (self interest declared here).
My issue is that BMW are getting complacent. They know people will buy their limited edition cars and to me this feels underdeveloped for a specialist M car. Remember the Mk 1 Focus costs 25k to build and Ford sold it for 20k
Don't confuse spraying water onto the surface of an air/air intercooler (22B, Evo, etc). With actual water mist being injected into the inlet tract. The two are very different.My issue is that BMW are getting complacent. They know people will buy their limited edition cars and to me this feels underdeveloped for a specialist M car. Remember the Mk 1 Focus costs 25k to build and Ford sold it for 20k
Why is everyone so sure this is going to be a great investment? The 1M was an anomaly, in that I cannot remember another BMW that has traded above list continuously for a number of years post-introduction
These cars generally have a habit of finding their equilibrium point, which to me is relevant to what the Porsche-equivalents are trading at, much like Black Series AMGs do. In this case I think 991 GT3s will keep them honest financially. 700 is not that limited a number, and personally something like a Cayman GT4 appeals more both as a concept and a value proposition (if you could get one)
These cars generally have a habit of finding their equilibrium point, which to me is relevant to what the Porsche-equivalents are trading at, much like Black Series AMGs do. In this case I think 991 GT3s will keep them honest financially. 700 is not that limited a number, and personally something like a Cayman GT4 appeals more both as a concept and a value proposition (if you could get one)
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff