RE: TVR's return - new details
Discussion
Lotus E300S said:
God no, couldn't think of anything worse,
Yes thought of something worse, Nissan GT-R.
I'm hoping it has some Sagaris Dna splashed with a V8 and a GT3 RS busting chassis.
Listen, i'm no 'vette fan. Frankly, for many years they have been pretty rubbish tbh. (a big engine in a wheel barrow) But, the latest one has a lot of good features, and occupies the price point that TVR are claiming to be aim for, so it's worth a close look. Yes thought of something worse, Nissan GT-R.
I'm hoping it has some Sagaris Dna splashed with a V8 and a GT3 RS busting chassis.
As for the GT3 RS busting chassis? Really? Do you think that will happen?
Hint: Porsche employ the best engineers in the business, they have years of chassis dev/tuning experience, they run multiple race series for their cars, they have a very very large development budget indeed, they have, sometimes exclusive, access to the latest chassis systems and technology (both mechanical and electronic), they use cutting edge development processes including advanced simulation in order to fast track the development task and optimise multi-degree of freedom systems, and much much more. TVR, with the best will in world cannot hope to match them (and would be insane to even try)
Max_Torque said:
Listen, i'm no 'vette fan. Frankly, for many years they have been pretty rubbish tbh. (a big engine in a wheel barrow) But, the latest one has a lot of good features, and occupies the price point that TVR are claiming to be aim for, so it's worth a close look.
As for the GT3 RS busting chassis? Really? Do you think that will happen?
Hint: Porsche employ the best engineers in the business, they have years of chassis dev/tuning experience, they run multiple race series for their cars, they have a very very large development budget indeed, they have, sometimes exclusive, access to the latest chassis systems and technology (both mechanical and electronic), they use cutting edge development processes including advanced simulation in order to fast track the development task and optimise multi-degree of freedom systems, and much much more. TVR, with the best will in world cannot hope to match them (and would be insane to even try)
I doubt il be selling the beetle if I'm honest though with GM on board you never know.As for the GT3 RS busting chassis? Really? Do you think that will happen?
Hint: Porsche employ the best engineers in the business, they have years of chassis dev/tuning experience, they run multiple race series for their cars, they have a very very large development budget indeed, they have, sometimes exclusive, access to the latest chassis systems and technology (both mechanical and electronic), they use cutting edge development processes including advanced simulation in order to fast track the development task and optimise multi-degree of freedom systems, and much much more. TVR, with the best will in world cannot hope to match them (and would be insane to even try)
GetCarter said:
Welcome to Pistonheads - where we all encourage new British sports cars.
There isn't a person on here who doesn't want them to succeed. It's the hive mind of PH that'll help them get there. Blind faith won't do it. It would be so sad if they went the way of revivals like the Jensen (SV8 was it?).
Europa1 said:
Lotus E300S said:
Plus anything over 1200kg will be a major disappointment,
Might as well buy an old farts Aston or Jag if it is.
Hmmmm, I was tempted by the Evora 400, but having checked its weight I'd best go for an old farts Aston or Jag... Might as well buy an old farts Aston or Jag if it is.
Max_Torque said:
Listen, i'm no 'vette fan. Frankly, for many years they have been pretty rubbish tbh. (a big engine in a wheel barrow)
Wonder when you drove one? Don't remember hearing of your first-hand experiences.But then you've probably put your deposit down for "the new TVR". Or maybe not??
Ozzie Osmond said:
Max_Torque said:
Listen, i'm no 'vette fan. Frankly, for many years they have been pretty rubbish tbh. (a big engine in a wheel barrow)
Wonder when you drove one? Don't remember hearing of your first-hand experiences.But then you've probably put your deposit down for "the new TVR". Or maybe not??
Another way to look at it is in the 200+K price bracket - Mclaren, Ferrari, Lambo or a Noble?
We've never had it so good! that's the problem.
Max_Torque said:
[small] Hint: Porsche employ the best engineers in the business, they have years of chassis dev/tuning experience,
Oh, and wasn't the development budget for the F1 a pifling £30M or so?
Focus and brilliance will always lead the way over huge budgets and massive R & D departments when it comes to defining the state of the art (after all, they need to come from somewhere and I don't believe Volkswagen AG is a charity). If it weren't, Bose would be the pinnacle of hi fi loudspeakers and believe me, they're not even close.
900T-R said:
And still they've been shown the way home in that department by tiny, cast strapped Lotus pretty consistently in recent history.
Shown the way? What does that even mean?I think you might be confusing absolute performance with optimisation!
A lotus Exige is small and light, so it's going to have a higher performance potential than say a 911 as basic physics tells us. But, imo (and in fact a lot of expert opinions) the 911 actually is better optimised than the Exige in terms of getting the most out of the basic physics package.
For example, the unassisted steering system on the Exige (the one that makes the car un-tendable to a large audience who want/are used too low handwheel loads) and it's relatively narrow tyres (with good coneicity) mean it will have "better" primary steering feel than that of a 911, which uses power steering, weighs twice as much, and has a much wider tyre footprint. So the question becomes, not which is "better" but which set of engineers has got the most out of what was available. In this respect Porsche are unbeatable, imo.
900T-R said:
Oh, and wasn't the development budget for the F1 a pifling £30M or so?
And i'm not sure if you have noticed that the F1 was developed over 20 years ago now. Things were a lot cheaper / simpler back then. (in fact, an F1 is a very simple car by modern stds) £30M today is nothing when it comes to passenger car design & development900T-R said:
Focus and brilliance will always lead the way over huge budgets and massive R & D departments when it comes to defining the state of the art (after all, they need to come from somewhere and I don't believe Volkswagen AG is a charity). If it weren't, Bose would be the pinnacle of hi fi loudspeakers and believe me, they're not even close.
Are you suggesting that Porsches engineering department hasn't got Focus or Brilliance? Considering they have been producing class leading sports cars (and SUVs..... ;-) for more than 60 years i think you'd be rather foolish to suggest otherwise. Have a look at the number of times a magazine has proclaimed "New XYZ is a 911 BEATER!" and then look at how many times that new XYZ has totally failed to do just that........Just nipped into Wilmslow (Cheshire) town centre, I saw eight or so Porsches of various types in the car park, would I have a TVR, hell yes, even if its just so I can find my car and it not get lost in the massed ranks of Pork, all very, very good, but I am guessing that there are enough people who want to have something different as to be honest seeing all those Porsches, there is very little individuality to be had, by and large the same thing in several sizes with different levels of power, dont get me wrong, I love Porsches but I would take the TVR even if objectively, it isn't as good.
I think it will pretty much be an updated and impoved Sagaris with a more dependable engine, how can that be a bad idea ?
I think it will pretty much be an updated and impoved Sagaris with a more dependable engine, how can that be a bad idea ?
Max_Torque said:
This is a car that the new TVR should be looking very very closely at indeed, imo:
A car that is probably more than the sum of it's parts, but that has really come of age with this latest iteration (and it's styling has finally, imo hit the spot)
Agreed. The C7 'vette is a spectacular car.A car that is probably more than the sum of it's parts, but that has really come of age with this latest iteration (and it's styling has finally, imo hit the spot)
Lotus E300S said:
Max_Torque said:
This is a car that the new TVR should be looking very very closely at indeed, imo:
A car that is probably more than the sum of it's parts, but that has really come of age with this latest iteration (and it's styling has finally, imo hit the spot)
Compare that to this:
As the equivalent in TVRs heyday! Quite some difference, and the mark of how far sports cars have come in the last 15 years or so (particularly in terms of Surfacing rather than just Styling)
I'd suggest that a RHD 'vette is very close to what TVR were about, and yet Chevrolet can't even make the numbers add up for the relatively cheap handwheel side to side swap.........
God no, couldn't think of anything worse,A car that is probably more than the sum of it's parts, but that has really come of age with this latest iteration (and it's styling has finally, imo hit the spot)
Compare that to this:
As the equivalent in TVRs heyday! Quite some difference, and the mark of how far sports cars have come in the last 15 years or so (particularly in terms of Surfacing rather than just Styling)
I'd suggest that a RHD 'vette is very close to what TVR were about, and yet Chevrolet can't even make the numbers add up for the relatively cheap handwheel side to side swap.........
Yes thought of something worse, Nissan GT-R.
I'm hoping it has some Sagaris Dna splashed with a V8 and a GT3 RS busting chassis.
J4CKO said:
Just nipped into Wilmslow (Cheshire) town centre, I saw eight or so Porsches of various types in the car park, would I have a TVR, hell yes, even if its just so I can find my car and it not get lost in the massed ranks of Pork, all very, very good, but I am guessing that there are enough people who want to have something different as to be honest seeing all those Porsches, there is very little individuality to be had, by and large the same thing in several sizes with different levels of power, dont get me wrong, I love Porsches but I would take the TVR even if objectively, it isn't as good.
When I used to live around that neck of the woods I used to love blasting through the airport tunnels and my Cerbera used to sound epic under them 
used to love seeing all the high end motors around that way too and always saw a Lambo or something fast blasting down the handforth bypass. 
Light n Hairy said:
Lots of eloquent stuff about why he loves TVR
I like my TVR because it looks crazy and makes a silly noise! 
Which I think is pretty much the same thing, I've never had any major issues with them, just ancillary stuff that will go bang on any older car (solenoids, throttle cable, brake cylinder)....
I've had two Tuscans over 6 years, (with a house enforced gap inbetween)... I may be ditching the tuscan for a Sagaris or T350, dunno yet...
Or I may hold fire for a nice new TVR in 2017... but I definitely wont be putting down a deposit until I've at least seen one!
Very exciting times though... my ideal car..
Something that looks and sounds and amazing as my Tusca, that handles like my 911 turbo, but with just 2wd, and some Traction control I can wind down, or turn off altogether. And a little bit more comfort would be nice for longer journeys, nothing special, just some slightly better seats, etc...
Quite frankly it doesn't exist, and maybe the new TVR will be it!
jamieduff1981 said:
People who identify with TVR don't want a GT3 RS busting chassis. The things that make a GT3 RS very capable on a race track make a sports car very dull on a road. People who like TVRs like a lot of power, a lot of noise and a bit of a handful handling-wise.
Indeed for modern comparisons more F-Type, than GT3... If it doesn't raise the suspicion that it's plotting to kill you all the time, regardless of it actually being a pussycat at normal speeds, it's not a TVR.
I'd argue that the Viper is probably the closest thing to a TVR rather than a Corvette or an F-Type. Or maybe a Cobra.
If you don't open the front door in the morning and make a judgement call of the apparent dampness and temperature of the road surface relating to which keys you are holding in your hand, it ain't a TVR.
I'd argue that the Viper is probably the closest thing to a TVR rather than a Corvette or an F-Type. Or maybe a Cobra.
If you don't open the front door in the morning and make a judgement call of the apparent dampness and temperature of the road surface relating to which keys you are holding in your hand, it ain't a TVR.
jamieduff1981 said:
If it doesn't raise the suspicion that it's plotting to kill you all the time, regardless of it actually being a pussycat at normal speeds, it's not a TVR.
I'd argue that the Viper is probably the closest thing to a TVR rather than a Corvette or an F-Type. Or maybe a Cobra.
If you don't open the front door in the morning and make a judgement call of the apparent dampness and temperature of the road surface relating to which keys you are holding in your hand, it ain't a TVR.
Superformance Shelby Daytona Coupe? I'd argue that the Viper is probably the closest thing to a TVR rather than a Corvette or an F-Type. Or maybe a Cobra.
If you don't open the front door in the morning and make a judgement call of the apparent dampness and temperature of the road surface relating to which keys you are holding in your hand, it ain't a TVR.
jamieduff1981 said:
If it doesn't raise the suspicion that it's plotting to kill you all the time, regardless of it actually being a pussycat at normal speeds, it's not a TVR.
I'd argue that the Viper is probably the closest thing to a TVR rather than a Corvette or an F-Type. Or maybe a Cobra.
If you don't open the front door in the morning and make a judgement call of the apparent dampness and temperature of the road surface relating to which keys you are holding in your hand, it ain't a TVR.
From my experience the always trying to kill you bit is the worst bit of the whole experience, I just wish mine was a bit more composed on a bumpy b-road... it's a doddle and sensible speeds, but push on a bit and it really is knife edge stuff, both my Tuscans were the same, and I'm fairly confident they all are... the other T-cars are far more competent though, from what I've been told anyway.I'd argue that the Viper is probably the closest thing to a TVR rather than a Corvette or an F-Type. Or maybe a Cobra.
If you don't open the front door in the morning and make a judgement call of the apparent dampness and temperature of the road surface relating to which keys you are holding in your hand, it ain't a TVR.
I found an F-type v8s, with the TC wound down (but not off entirely) a very pleasurable/fun/silly drive, with plenty of noise and drama, and everything worked. I very nearly bought one, glad it all fell through when you look at the 1000pcm depreciation curve of them! a 35k v8s beckons soon I think, to bridge the gap to "new TVR"
soad said:
jamieduff1981 said:
If it doesn't raise the suspicion that it's plotting to kill you all the time, regardless of it actually being a pussycat at normal speeds, it's not a TVR.
I'd argue that the Viper is probably the closest thing to a TVR rather than a Corvette or an F-Type. Or maybe a Cobra.
If you don't open the front door in the morning and make a judgement call of the apparent dampness and temperature of the road surface relating to which keys you are holding in your hand, it ain't a TVR.
Superformance Shelby Daytona Coupe? I'd argue that the Viper is probably the closest thing to a TVR rather than a Corvette or an F-Type. Or maybe a Cobra.
If you don't open the front door in the morning and make a judgement call of the apparent dampness and temperature of the road surface relating to which keys you are holding in your hand, it ain't a TVR.
The basic point is that you buy a TVR if you actively want a challenge. You don't want a car that flatters you; you want a car that is inclined to embarrass you. Or at least one that has that reputation. The appeal is in keeping it in shape.
Guys who like the Porsche approach get annoyed with cars which do unpredictable things. They call the Porsche answer "perfection". Whatever you call it, a TVR guy wants something different - not an unrecoverable mess from a single bump in the road (like a Triumph Spitfire) but a car that reacts none the less. We don't want "composed", we want a car expresses its annoyance at surface changes.
Later TVRs in particular were sharp. They were easily unsettled but had long throttle pedal travels to allow a numpty like me to be accurate with power application and fast steering racks to catch yaws with small handwheel inputs. They were brilliant in a way that was the farthest thing from a Porsche 911.
If I wanted a Porsche I'd have just bought a Porsche. Anyone suggesting now that a new TVR needs to be more Porsche-like (in its pursuit of paper figures or handling "perfection") to attract buyers is mistaken, I believe. Those people who want more Porsche-like cars will mull it over and still just buy a Porsche.
Ironically the only Porsche that remotely appeals to me, personally, is the Carrera GT and even then only because it's renowned for being difficult to drive.
ILoveMondeo said:
jamieduff1981 said:
If it doesn't raise the suspicion that it's plotting to kill you all the time, regardless of it actually being a pussycat at normal speeds, it's not a TVR.
I'd argue that the Viper is probably the closest thing to a TVR rather than a Corvette or an F-Type. Or maybe a Cobra.
If you don't open the front door in the morning and make a judgement call of the apparent dampness and temperature of the road surface relating to which keys you are holding in your hand, it ain't a TVR.
From my experience the always trying to kill you bit is the worst bit of the whole experience, I just wish mine was a bit more composed on a bumpy b-road... it's a doddle and sensible speeds, but push on a bit and it really is knife edge stuff, both my Tuscans were the same, and I'm fairly confident they all are... the other T-cars are far more competent though, from what I've been told anyway.I'd argue that the Viper is probably the closest thing to a TVR rather than a Corvette or an F-Type. Or maybe a Cobra.
If you don't open the front door in the morning and make a judgement call of the apparent dampness and temperature of the road surface relating to which keys you are holding in your hand, it ain't a TVR.
I found an F-type v8s, with the TC wound down (but not off entirely) a very pleasurable/fun/silly drive, with plenty of noise and drama, and everything worked. I very nearly bought one, glad it all fell through when you look at the 1000pcm depreciation curve of them! a 35k v8s beckons soon I think, to bridge the gap to "new TVR"
Edited to add - the disappointment was because some journo had described it as TVR like. It isn't. It's a good car in its own right and closer to my values than a Porsche, but it's *nothing* like a TVR.
Edited by jamieduff1981 on Friday 9th October 14:41
jamieduff1981 said:
As a Jag fan, I was massively disappointed with the F-Type V8S because it was utterly non-TVR like. It was a car my mother could drive around. Ideal for daily commuting, but it's really not that much fun for a blast.
Edited to add - the disappointment was because some journo had described it as TVR like. It isn't. It's a good car in its own right and closer to my values than a Porsche, but it's *nothing* like a TVR.
Fair enough, I found it to be quite TVR like, so there you go! It's all subjective anyway! Edited to add - the disappointment was because some journo had described it as TVR like. It isn't. It's a good car in its own right and closer to my values than a Porsche, but it's *nothing* like a TVR.
Edited by jamieduff1981 on Friday 9th October 14:41
It's waaaay closer to TVR than Porsche.
Did you turn the TC off?
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