How Can / Will VW fix all those dodgy engines?
Discussion
Ok, so next year several million cars will be returned to VW dealers, and those cars have an engine incapable of meeting legal emission levels without cheating (according to VW insiders).
What will they do? It seems that only an engine replacement will fix the problem. Or will they fix some new exhaust, and cut emissions and BHP by 50%...
Has anyone any ideas on what their options actually are?
What will they do? It seems that only an engine replacement will fix the problem. Or will they fix some new exhaust, and cut emissions and BHP by 50%...
Has anyone any ideas on what their options actually are?
As above, a remap/rechip. VW already offer the same engine in a variety of outputs and with emissions to suit various territories and different regs. The aftermarket boys offer other chips with more power and sometimes even more economy at the same time (a mate has this on his Passat, and yes it is one of the affected engines). This is nothing new.
budgie smuggler said:
I thought the problem was that the NOX reducing hardware they had was not capable of doing the job full time (owing to a small tank of the chemical needed) or something?
Is the problem restricted to needing the chemicals and telling the car to use them full time rather than in test mode, ie is the car capable of running full time in a mode that would pass the tests?I'd put money on it not being just a software update and if it is I'll put the same money on the car performing no where near as well as it did before this 'fix'.
Logic says there must have been a fundamental benefit to using the defeat software so how is some other software going to give the same performance / mpg etc but meet the same emissions?
Logic says there must have been a fundamental benefit to using the defeat software so how is some other software going to give the same performance / mpg etc but meet the same emissions?
hairyben said:
budgie smuggler said:
I thought the problem was that the NOX reducing hardware they had was not capable of doing the job full time (owing to a small tank of the chemical needed) or something?
Is the problem restricted to needing the chemicals and telling the car to use them full time rather than in test mode, ie is the car capable of running full time in a mode that would pass the tests?
Mr2Mike said:
If the EA189 has an air throttle (most modern diesels do), then they could reduce air and increase EGR volume to lower NOx production, at the expense of power and possibly CO2.
Plus at the expense of the EGR, because we know how reliable the VW EGRs have been historically....GC8 said:
Emissions may come out of the exhaust, but altering the exhaust wont fix the problem OP!
Well, bits of the exhaust are key to fixing the problem. To OP - have a look here http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/09/20150921-v...
and here http://www3.epa.gov/ttncatc1/dir1/fnoxdoc.pdfand learn some of the technology involved. It's complex, there's some big chemistry going on there.
When you have this background reading under your belt (and brace yourself, there's plenty of it) then it's worth rejoining the discussion to talk about LNT systems, SCR systems, urea injection, Euro 5, Euro 6, Gen 1/2/3, Bin 5 and so on. If all of this sounds like too much trouble, then leave it, because it's heavy on the science and even when you understand it nobody is being very clear on exactly what the fudge software does and how it does it. I have a few ideas but they are based on guesswork having spent a bit of time studying the chemistry of what's going on and the constraints on the systems. I suspect that in operation outside test mode the system injects much less urea solution in order to reduce refill frequency and possibly increase catalyst life, but this is a guess. Of one thing I am sure - I'm not messing with this technology unless I absolutely have to, because this stuff is just dying to go wrong and hand you a big bill.
Happy reading, and if you're back in less than an hour I'll know you haven't bothered. :-)
Edited by battered on Wednesday 7th October 18:18
To meet the US emissions regs they needed more exhaust gas recirculation meaning bigger particulate filters which would have needed alterations to the floorplan structure to fit them in (this suggestion from Autocars article last week).
It looks like the won't be able to meet the US regs with just a remap so who knows what will happen there, I can't imagine a redesign and retrofit of that many cars. VW look to be in serious danger because of this scam.
The sad fact is that the cars are incredibly clean anyway and have come on in leaps and bounds in just a few short years.
I'd love to read the real story behind how and why this all came out recently given the research was sat there for all to see 18 months ago.
I wonder if the team behind the scam will ever face criminal charges for what they have done to VW.
It looks like the won't be able to meet the US regs with just a remap so who knows what will happen there, I can't imagine a redesign and retrofit of that many cars. VW look to be in serious danger because of this scam.
The sad fact is that the cars are incredibly clean anyway and have come on in leaps and bounds in just a few short years.
I'd love to read the real story behind how and why this all came out recently given the research was sat there for all to see 18 months ago.
I wonder if the team behind the scam will ever face criminal charges for what they have done to VW.
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