RE: Toyota S-FR concept for Tokyo

[xRIEx]

Gecko1978 said:

LordGrover said:

had ham said:

Agreed, looks closer to production than most concepts, but if it is, it will likely bomb, not unlike the GT86.

Were you knocked over by one as a child?

I think the point is valid. Toyota said small rwd coupe 200bhp lots of tail out action skiny tyres etc. An the world went yes please. The car came out and no one bought it because a golf was faster more practical etc. This is the same we all like the idea but its a second or in reality 3rd car and I doubt on balance there are many people who have a 3rd car as a toy and thoes that can afford one tend to pick something special not a cheap plastic japanese thing.

Harsh but thats the reality

Every time this line about the GT86 gets trotted out I have to respond with the same facts, so maybe this time I'll say it louder

The GT86 is selling at a faster average rate than the MX-5.

Yeah, such a sales failure.

[Robert Elise]

Gecko1978 said:

I think the point is valid. Toyota said small rwd coupe 200bhp lots of tail out action skiny tyres etc. An the world went yes please. The car came out and no one bought it because a golf was faster more practical etc. This is the same we all like the idea but its a second or in reality 3rd car and I doubt on balance there are many people who have a 3rd car as a toy and thoes that can afford one tend to pick something special not a cheap plastic japanese thing.

Harsh but thats the reality

i think it's really more of a first car for a younger person, but when you're young bragging rights, traffic lights, image and outright speed are a higher priority.
could fit in to a two car family as well.
A lot have gone to older folk with multiple cars.

It's a superb driving experience but that isn't a big market when it falls on many other criteria.

[Dr G]

Wadeski said:

Looks like a new S800 in the same almost-retro-with-weird-proportions vein as the MINI and new beetle?

I had exactly the same picture ready to post

I like it; modern 3 cylinder turbo petrol would suit that nicely.

[KTF]

xRIEx said:

The GT86 is selling at a faster average rate than the MX-5.

A faster average rate? That sounds like marketing guff to cover up low numbers

Do you have any figures to put round that?

[xRIEx]

KTF said:

xRIEx said:

The GT86 is selling at a faster average rate than the MX-5.

A faster average rate? That sounds like marketing guff to cover up low numbers

Do you have any figures to put round that?

Why, can't you use google? I've already done this st at least twice before.


Don't worry, I'll do it again, give me a few minutes.

ETA: In the meantime, read this article about US sales http://jalopnik.com/everyone-is-wrong-about-subaru...

Edited by xRIEx on Friday 9th October 10:12

[Cotic]

I've read elsewhere that this is a 2+2 - surely they can't fit back seats in there? With the risk of bringing up the GT86 yet again, the seats in the back of that are useless for anyone with a full complement of limbs, so what are they trying to achieve with this as a 2+2?

[xRIEx]

xRIEx said:

KTF said:

xRIEx said:

The GT86 is selling at a faster average rate than the MX-5.

A faster average rate? That sounds like marketing guff to cover up low numbers

Do you have any figures to put round that?

Why, can't you use google? I've already done this st at least twice before.


Don't worry, I'll do it again, give me a few minutes.

ETA: In the meantime, read this article about US sales http://jalopnik.com/everyone-is-wrong-about-subaru...

Edited by xRIEx on Friday 9th October 10:12

http://www.just-auto.com/analysis/2015my-toyota-gt... - 100,000 GT86s (inc FR-S and BRZ) sold in two years - approx. 50,000 per year.

http://www2.mazda.com/en/publicity/release/2011/20... - 900,000 MX-5s sold in 21 years 10 months (I've rounded to 22 years) - approx 41,000 per year.

I suppose I'd better bookmark this post for the next time someone wants to regurgitate what they want to believe, rather than fact checking first.

[swisstoni]

Maybe it runs on plankton.

[KTF]

xRIEx said:

xRIEx said:

KTF said:

xRIEx said:

The GT86 is selling at a faster average rate than the MX-5.

A faster average rate? That sounds like marketing guff to cover up low numbers

Do you have any figures to put round that?

Why, can't you use google? I've already done this st at least twice before.


Don't worry, I'll do it again, give me a few minutes.

ETA: In the meantime, read this article about US sales http://jalopnik.com/everyone-is-wrong-about-subaru...

Edited by xRIEx on Friday 9th October 10:12

http://www.just-auto.com/analysis/2015my-toyota-gt... - 100,000 GT86s (inc FR-S and BRZ) sold in two years - approx. 50,000 per year.

http://www2.mazda.com/en/publicity/release/2011/20... - 900,000 MX-5s sold in 21 years 10 months (I've rounded to 22 years) - approx 41,000 per year.

I suppose I'd better bookmark this post for the next time someone wants to regurgitate what they want to believe, rather than fact checking first.

I wasnt 'posting what I want to believe' as I dont really care either way how many gt-86 have been sold.

I was more interested in the numbers/timespan as 50k a year over 2 years and wikipedia also says:

"The MX5's first generation, the NA, sold over 400,000 units from 1989 to 1997" so over 8 years thats 50000 avg a year matching the Toyota figure.

As the market has shifted over time, car ages, whatever you would expect the numbers to fluctuate anyway.

[xRIEx]

KTF said:

xRIEx said:

xRIEx said:

KTF said:

xRIEx said:

The GT86 is selling at a faster average rate than the MX-5.

A faster average rate? That sounds like marketing guff to cover up low numbers

Do you have any figures to put round that?

Why, can't you use google? I've already done this st at least twice before.


Don't worry, I'll do it again, give me a few minutes.

ETA: In the meantime, read this article about US sales http://jalopnik.com/everyone-is-wrong-about-subaru...

Edited by xRIEx on Friday 9th October 10:12

http://www.just-auto.com/analysis/2015my-toyota-gt... - 100,000 GT86s (inc FR-S and BRZ) sold in two years - approx. 50,000 per year.

http://www2.mazda.com/en/publicity/release/2011/20... - 900,000 MX-5s sold in 21 years 10 months (I've rounded to 22 years) - approx 41,000 per year.

I suppose I'd better bookmark this post for the next time someone wants to regurgitate what they want to believe, rather than fact checking first.

I wasnt 'posting what I want to believe' as I dont really care either way how many gt-86 have been sold.

I was more interested in the numbers/timespan as 50k a year over 2 years and wikipedia also says:

"The MX5's first generation, the NA, sold over 400,000 units from 1989 to 1997" so over 8 years thats 50000 avg a year matching the Toyota figure.

As the market has shifted over time, car ages, whatever you would expect the numbers to fluctuate anyway.

I was really referring to the poster who originally asserted that GT86 sales were a bomb and the poster who agreed, rather than to you - apologies for not being clear.

As per your own quote (a good stat to use, I'll try and remember that one for future ), sales of the GT86 and derivatives, at worst, match that of the world's best selling sports car, while also being more expensive than it (in the current market). I can't see that as 'bombing' by any definition.

[Baryonyx]

Looks class. Very quirky, and a simple, light rear driver appeals.

[poprock]

Cotic said:

I've read elsewhere that this is a 2+2 - surely they can't fit back seats in there? With the risk of bringing up the GT86 yet again, the seats in the back of that are useless for anyone with a full complement of limbs, so what are they trying to achieve with this as a 2+2?

I’ve always driven 2+2s and I treat them as two seaters with a handy back seat to put ‘stuff’ on. Shopping bags, jackets, etc. The back seats are okay for passengers in when you really, really, have to give someone a lift.

[LordGrover]

That's my philosophy too, otherwise it'd be called a four seater.

[Conscript]

Have managed to perambulate 5 adults in mine once for a short distance.

Naughty.

[Robert Elise]

xRIEx said:

http://www.just-auto.com/analysis/2015my-toyota-gt... - 100,000 GT86s (inc FR-S and BRZ) sold in two years - approx. 50,000 per year.

http://www2.mazda.com/en/publicity/release/2011/20... - 900,000 MX-5s sold in 21 years 10 months (I've rounded to 22 years) - approx 41,000 per year.

I suppose I'd better bookmark this post for the next time someone wants to regurgitate what they want to believe, rather than fact checking first.

interesting.
though i guess averaging out over 22 years is a little unfair. the mx5 has sustained "ok" sales for 26 years and counting, the GT may well tail off. Being a convertible, and classic sports car helps. I hope the S-FR is well received too, looks fun - an MX5 with a roof. I hope enough people want an antidote to their commuter barges to create a demand. Nothing wrong with DD being an auto barge, but they're not fun.

Why is it just the Japanese bringing back simple rwd drivers' cars?

[LordGrover]

Their home market appreciates them, I suspect.
They've made many a desirable car over the years which have not been available outside JDM.

[xRIEx]

Robert Elise said:

xRIEx said:

http://www.just-auto.com/analysis/2015my-toyota-gt... - 100,000 GT86s (inc FR-S and BRZ) sold in two years - approx. 50,000 per year.

http://www2.mazda.com/en/publicity/release/2011/20... - 900,000 MX-5s sold in 21 years 10 months (I've rounded to 22 years) - approx 41,000 per year.

I suppose I'd better bookmark this post for the next time someone wants to regurgitate what they want to believe, rather than fact checking first.

interesting.
though i guess averaging out over 22 years is a little unfair. the mx5 has sustained "ok" sales for 26 years and counting, the GT may well tail off. Being a convertible, and classic sports car helps. I hope the S-FR is well received too, looks fun - an MX5 with a roof. I hope enough people want an antidote to their commuter barges to create a demand. Nothing wrong with DD being an auto barge, but they're not fun.

Why is it just the Japanese bringing back simple rwd drivers' cars?

I completely accept that (which is why I do state 'average' when I need to quote it) - the thing is, I'm using this to respond to assertions such as "GT86 has bombed" or "GT86 is a sales failure" - those statements are clearly bks but the people making these comments only want to shout how much of a failure it is, and not check it against any sort of metric to qualify those statements.

I hate it when people insist on spreading misinformation, especially when spreading that misinformation over the greatest invention in the history of information, that gives them near-instantaneous access to the correct information.

[Robert Elise]

xRIEx said:

I completely accept that (which is why I do state 'average' when I need to quote it) - the thing is, I'm using this to respond to assertions such as "GT86 has bombed" or "GT86 is a sales failure" - those statements are clearly bks but the people making these comments only want to shout how much of a failure it is, and not check it against any sort of metric to qualify those statements.

I hate it when people insist on spreading misinformation, especially when spreading that misinformation over the greatest invention in the history of information, that gives them near-instantaneous access to the correct information.

i don't know, but i'd wager a fair few naysayers:
- haven't driven it
- don't know difference between torque and power
- can't carry speed through corners
- drive fwd euroboxes with 300+bhp
- don't even drive yet, just read magazines

Anyway, some really good things coming out right now from the Japs and British niche manufacturers.
Would be interesting if the Germans followed suit with a lightweight fun sportscar, not just highly accomplished uber machines.

[Madkat]

Colonial said:

Complain complain complain no affordable rwd cars anymore dsg fwd complain complain complain

Along comes an affordable, manual rwd coupe.

You'd think it would make people happy. But nope. Back to whingeing and complaining.

Well said.

[ian_c_uk]

Cotic said:

I've read elsewhere that this is a 2+2 - surely they can't fit back seats in there? With the risk of bringing up the GT86 yet again, the seats in the back of that are useless for anyone with a full complement of limbs, so what are they trying to achieve with this as a 2+2?

You know what, I think it is! That appears to be a red seatbelt receptacle in the rear?