What has happened to ford

What has happened to ford

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carparkno1

1,432 posts

157 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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If you spec it right you can make a focus look really rather nice. Beauty is in the eye and all that but for a family wagon I'm really pleased with how it has turned out. If they do the RS/Mustang in that gunmetal I can see them looking properly decent.

Kitchski

6,514 posts

230 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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The S-Max is one of the best cars I've ever driven. There's not really anything it does badly, other than little niggles, but all cars have those. Ours is coming up to 10 years old, and we've got no plans to replace it. One of the reasons for that is that I can't think of anything else that's better, other than a newer S-Max (but they don't have the 5-pot. Boooo!)
Can't believe the same company made the mk5 Escort! It shows how far they've come. If you're not fussed about style or fashion (luckily I'm not) then I think Ford have the markets sewn up. Fiesta's probably the best-driving small car, Focus we know is good (though looks so dumpy), new Mondeo's looking good and the old one was a great car. Then you've got B-Max with no B-pillar - clever. C-Max is a good small MPV. Now they're doing the Mustang, and they're still dicking around with stuff like the GT. They make lots of decent cars. Nothing massively exciting, but nothing terrible either.

It's like they've swapped with Peugeot, who used to have a range of good cars in the mid-90's, but now make the equivalent of the mk3 Fiesta and Mk5 Escort.

GroundEffect

13,819 posts

155 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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kambites said:
GroundEffect said:
Significantly? That's stretching things a bit as far as I've experienced! The Golf 7 is a solid platform with very few complaints, but the latest Focus feels sharper.

I haven't driven a 3 so I can't comment.
I suppose different people put different weights against different things, where handling is concerned. I thought the mk3 Focus's chassis was a significant step backwards in terms of driver appeal from the mk2 which itself was a step backwards from the mk1. I'd put the mk3 mid-table at best; in fact I don't even think it's any better than the current C'eed and Hyundai i30.

Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with the Focus as a means of getting a family from A to B; but there's nothing particularly appealing about it either. The best you can say about it is that it's at least still better to drive than the Astra (just, the Astra has improved a lot). hehe
Have you driven the facelifted mk3? It has new suspension relative to the mk3.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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GroundEffect said:
Have you driven the facelifted mk3? It has new suspension relative to the mk3.
No I don't believe I have but whilst it's not perfect it's not the suspension that really bothers me, it's the steering.

Redlake27

2,255 posts

243 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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It's interesting that the OP has only just 'discovered' Ford's strengths and others seem to think Ford's halo as the master of chassis dynamics has slipped.

For most of the 1995-2010 Period, Ford could do no wrong from a driving dynamics perspective.

Everytime I drove a Focus, Fiesta or Mondeo, I failed to understand why any discerning driver would choose a Polo, Golf or Passat instead. For every turgid and wooden VW, there was a sparkling, supple and sharp Ford equivalent.

It was only when VW launched Golf 7 that they came close - and arguably better then the Focus, which had become a tad synthesised by EPAS by then. Now, the latest Mondeo is not rated as being as dynamic as the old one, but is a pitched as much more of an Audi-esque 'solid and stable' motorway car rather than one as joyful as its predecessor.

I worry that imported 'One World' Fords such as the Ka replacement , Edge and EcoSport will damage Ford's strong reputation, so the next Focus and Fiesta have to be brilliant.

In the meantime, try a 100 or 125 ps Fiesta 1.0. It'll may you wonder why you ever need anything more from a car. It's close to perfection...

carparkno1

1,432 posts

157 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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kambites said:
GroundEffect said:
Have you driven the facelifted mk3? It has new suspension relative to the mk3.
No I don't believe I have but whilst it's not perfect it's not the suspension that really bothers me, it's the steering.
I've driven a mk1 focus and it steered nicely. The facelifted mk3 steers very nicely as well
. They tweaked it here and there and I think the feedback and turn-in is excellent. Lot of reviews praise it as a return to decency. Maybe not mk1 levels but an improvement based on feedback.

s m

23,164 posts

202 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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Redlake27 said:
It's interesting that the OP has only just 'discovered' Ford's strengths and others seem to think Ford's halo as the master of chassis dynamics has slipped.

For most of the 1995-2010 Period, Ford could do no wrong from a driving dynamics perspective.

Everytime I drove a Focus, Fiesta or Mondeo, I failed to understand why any discerning driver would choose a Polo, Golf or Passat instead. For every turgid and wooden VW, there was a sparkling, supple and sharp Ford equivalent.

It was only when VW launched Golf 7 that they came close - and arguably better then the Focus, which had become a tad synthesised by EPAS by then. Now, the latest Mondeo is not rated as being as dynamic as the old one, but is a pitched as much more of an Audi-esque 'solid and stable' motorway car rather than one as joyful as its predecessor.

I worry that imported 'One World' Fords such as the Ka replacement , Edge and EcoSport will damage Ford's strong reputation, so the next Focus and Fiesta have to be brilliant.

In the meantime, try a 100 or 125 ps Fiesta 1.0. It'll may you wonder why you ever need anything more from a car. It's close to perfection...
The Puma gets good reviews on here as well ( although I must admit I chose a Saxo VTS over one back in 1998 )

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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The Fiesta is indeed very good but is due for replacement soon and I fear the new one will be another step forwards in terms of cuddly dashboards and backwards in terms of driving dynamics.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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carparkno1 said:
I've driven a mk1 focus and it steered nicely. The facelifted mk3 steers very nicely as well
. They tweaked it here and there and I think the feedback and turn-in is excellent. Lot of reviews praise it as a return to decency. Maybe not mk1 levels but an improvement based on feedback.
Interesting, I'll have to have a go in one at some point.

The problem I have with the pre-facelift car isn't the lack of steering feel as such (no modern car in this sector has much steering feel) and there's certainly nothing wrong with the steering's sharpness; I think the issue is inconsistent weighting of the steering. If steering gets lighter my brain automatically interprets it as losing grip; I couldn't consciously feel any change in weighting, I just found myself constantly correcting for a loss of grip which had never happened.

carparkno1

1,432 posts

157 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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kambites said:
The Fiesta is indeed very good but is due for replacement soon and I fear the new one will be another step forwards in terms of cuddly dashboards and backwards in terms of driving dynamics.
Hopefully they keep the chassis, whack in a touchscreen and away we go.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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I guess we can hope but I'm not holding my breath. After the revolution of the mk1 Focus/Ka/etc, Ford seem to be slowly sliding back towards their default "mk5 Escort" mode. Although to be fair if the mk5 Escort was a 1/10 to drive and the mk1 Focus was a 9/10 they're still probably at 7/10 or something.

Centurion07

10,381 posts

246 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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[quote=Kitchski]Nothing massively exciting.../quote]

Eh?

At the risk of repeating myself, the new Mustang is a damn handsome, RWD, +400BHP 5-litre V8, that returns mid-20s MPG, for £35K; show me another car that comes close to that. The Audi RS5 starts at £60K. A BMW M3 starts at £56K, the M4 £58K-ish.

The new RS Focus is a hot hatch, with toned down looks that a lot people had a problem with on the MK2, an "upgrade" from FWD to AWD which again, some people had a problem with, and all for under £30K. Show me another car that comes close to that. A Golf R is +£2K more, an Audi RS3 £40K.

The GT. Doesn't even need explaining that one, does it?

What are other manufacturers offering that is so much more exciting than the cars I've mentioned?



markoc

1,084 posts

195 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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carparkno1 said:
Hopefully they keep the chassis, whack in a touchscreen and away we go.
Please god not a touchscreen, or at least not the current one.

Had my FIL's month old Mondeo for the weekend. SYNC interface was beyond hopeless, slowly deteriorating to frankly maddening, and culminating in me wanting to smash it with a hammer. Need a degree in IT and the patience of Mother Teresa to get the satnav to do anything remotely close to what you want, and I have neither. Massive step backwards in terms of useability IMO, and I work for them so should really say something positive... (Erm, it was a nice colour, and big enough to see from outer space?)

Kitchski

6,514 posts

230 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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Centurion07]itchski]Nothing massively exciting.../quote said:
Eh?

At the risk of repeating myself, the new Mustang is a damn handsome, RWD, +400BHP 5-litre V8, that returns mid-20s MPG, for £35K; show me another car that comes close to that. The Audi RS5 starts at £60K. A BMW M3 starts at £56K, the M4 £58K-ish.

The new RS Focus is a hot hatch, with toned down looks that a lot people had a problem with on the MK2, an "upgrade" from FWD to AWD which again, some people had a problem with, and all for under £30K. Show me another car that comes close to that. A Golf R is +£2K more, an Audi RS3 £40K.

The GT. Doesn't even need explaining that one, does it?

What are other manufacturers offering that is so much more exciting than the cars I've mentioned?
The cars you've mentioned account for a tiny percentage of the models Ford offer. The Lexus LFA didn't suddenly make Lexus exciting, just like the NSX didn't make Honda exciting.

And besides, since when did value for money amount to excitement?

carparkno1

1,432 posts

157 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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markoc said:
carparkno1 said:
Hopefully they keep the chassis, whack in a touchscreen and away we go.
Please god not a touchscreen, or at least not the current one.

Had my FIL's month old Mondeo for the weekend. SYNC interface was beyond hopeless, slowly deteriorating to frankly maddening, and culminating in me wanting to smash it with a hammer. Need a degree in IT and the patience of Mother Teresa to get the satnav to do anything remotely close to what you want, and I have neither. Massive step backwards in terms of useability IMO, and I work for them so should really say something positive... (Erm, it was a nice colour, and big enough to see from outer space?)
Lol that did make me laugh. I have to say I've found it all remarkably easy using voice control but I can see where it is unwieldy at times. Sometimes it is quicker to press rather than talk for sure and if it isn't responsive that could be a pain. I'd still take it over the pre facelift Nokia buttons everywhere. Looked a right state.

Centurion07

10,381 posts

246 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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Kitchski said:
Centurion07 said:
Kitchski said:
Nothing massively exciting...
Eh?

At the risk of repeating myself, the new Mustang is a damn handsome, RWD, +400BHP 5-litre V8, that returns mid-20s MPG, for £35K; show me another car that comes close to that. The Audi RS5 starts at £60K. A BMW M3 starts at £56K, the M4 £58K-ish.

The new RS Focus is a hot hatch, with toned down looks that a lot people had a problem with on the MK2, an "upgrade" from FWD to AWD which again, some people had a problem with, and all for under £30K. Show me another car that comes close to that. A Golf R is +£2K more, an Audi RS3 £40K.

The GT. Doesn't even need explaining that one, does it?

What are other manufacturers offering that is so much more exciting than the cars I've mentioned?
The cars you've mentioned account for a tiny percentage of the models Ford offer. The Lexus LFA didn't suddenly make Lexus exciting, just like the NSX didn't make Honda exciting.

And besides, since when did value for money amount to excitement?
The point I was trying to make is what else do those other manufacturers offer that makes THEM exciting but not Ford?

I'm not sure of your point when you mention how much of Ford's range is made up of those cars. How much of any manufacturer's range is made up of the "good" stuff? Pretty sure there are a hell of a lot 3 series smogmobiles on the road today.

As for value for money, a car that offers 90% of what an RS5/M4 does but for almost half the money is most definitely worthy of excitement.


Edited by Centurion07 on Friday 9th October 10:40

jamieduff1981

8,022 posts

139 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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My company Ranger is my first Ford experience for a while. The interior seems about the same as other Fords. The carpet is quite cheap (but for a pickup that's fine) and the dash is plastic. It has blue mood lighting which is quite nice and all the switch gear feels functional. I dislike switches or buttons which make an obvious click, and the only one which does is the seat heater switches (unlike some highly regarded premium brands which feel like a soft feel plastic cover on a 29p switch from Maplin). The other buttons are a soft action. The seats are quite a stiff leather (again fine for a truck) and a good supportive shape.

It's not soft feel, but it feels robust. Nothing wiggles that shouldn't. It just feels like it's all fit for its intended purpose.

THe chassis is that of a pickup, but in my humble opinion it's the best driving pickup on the UK market. It has a double wishbone front and leaf sprung live axle rear. The steering feel is poor but the front end itself is composed and consistent. In line with most live axles, the rear is quite easy to break out - but it's normally a RWD truck with LSD in the rear axle and it has quite a healthy torque output so it's not surprising. You can drive along rural roads with direction changes and usually the thing governing your speed is a hatchback in front braking before every application of steering.

It absolutely spanks the L200, the Hilux and the Navara as a pickup for mostly road use, but it's more expensive than all of those. Only the Amarok is more expensive still, and it drives worse and has an inferior engine (in the context of pickup trucks). The Amarok has a Passat engine which is relatively low capacity, highly boosted produces a modest 170bhp/300lb.ft - against the Ranger's 3.2litre inline 5 producing 197bhp/347lb.ft making the Ranger far better at actually towing its 6 tonne train weight or just being more usable on the road normally - i.e. able to overtake smartly on rural single carriageways.

It's not my only vehicle, but I'm very happy with my Ford.

Edited by jamieduff1981 on Friday 9th October 11:04

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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I agree completely re the Mustang. Amazing VFM, in my view, and very refreshing in a world of turbo 4 pots.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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ORD said:
I agree completely re the Mustang. Amazing VFM, in my view, and very refreshing in a world of turbo 4 pots.
yes The Mustang is the one car Ford are producing at the moment which I could see myself owning at some point in the future. If I ever need a 2+2 it'll be up there with the 911, Evora, GT86, etc. on the list of things to drive.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Friday 9th October 2015
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ORD said:
I agree completely re the Mustang. Amazing VFM, in my view, and very refreshing in a world of turbo 4 pots.
The Mustang is a turbo 4 pot too.