UK Head of Tesla.... Impressive

[walm]

AyBee said:

Except aren't we trying to compare like-for-like in all other respects, or is that just when it suits? I can just about conceive that a 20 minute fill-up is comparable - via a plug socket you're looking at 5 hours with twin chargers and 10 without!

15,000 miles a year on average.
41 miles a day.
Even at 20 miles an hour that still leaves about 22 hours when you aren't using your car and most of that is when you are at home.
So yes - it's comparable for regular commuting or for round trips from home <250 miles.

As loose cannon has pointed out several times - if you want to drive 5 hours non-stop for more than 250 miles every day then an EV probably won't work for you.

[kambites]

walm said:

15,000 miles a year on average.

The average mileage in the UK is closer to half of that these days.

[loose cannon]

otolith said:

They aren't mandatory. If they don't fit your lifestyle, you don't have to have one.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear isn't that what I've stated all along, pistonheads at its finest

[kambites]

loose cannon said:

otolith said:

They aren't mandatory. If they don't fit your lifestyle, you don't have to have one.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear isn't that what I've stated all along, pistonheads at its finest

So tell me, do you go onto every thread about a car which isn't suitable for your particular needs and post repeatedly about why it's not suitable?

Actually this is PH so maybe that's normal behaviour. I've certainly done it on occasion.

[loose cannon]

The irony kambites please

[kambites]

Yes I thought that was perhaps a bit subtle, hence the edit.

[topless360]

Ares said:

coffee/shopping/pee during a 20 min supercharge, or goes to sleep while his car charges overnight.

That's a whole load of peeing, it never takes me 20 minutes

And anyway, 20 minutes won't get you a full charge. It will give you up to 50% charge, i.e. enough to get you to your destination. It takes 40 minutes to get a 80% charge, and 75 minutes to get a 100% charge.

I test drove the P85D and discounted it on the basis that you will have to do a lot of planning when going away. And the money you save on petrol you will end up spending on coffee and other bits of useless shopping that you otherwise wouldn't have done.

Unless I lived a stones throw away from a Supercharger point, EV's and infrastructure have a lot of improvement to make before I'd consider one.

[kambites]

topless360 said:

And anyway, 20 minutes won't get you a full charge. It will give you up to 50% charge,

I think Tesla quote 80% don't they?

[walm]

loose cannon said:

Oh dear oh dear oh dear isn't that what I've stated all along, pistonheads at its finest

You have given a terrible example that has nothing to do with the way most people drive and used it to claim EVs won't catch on.

It's the equivalent of saying "I like the sound of vinyl and going to record shops, digitally downloading music will never catch on."
Or "why would I send this SMS-thing with typing an whatnot, I can just call someone?"
Or "unless it is handwritten I don't bother reading it, email is an abomination."
Or "I enjoy getting dressed to head down to the forum to debate futurology with my fellow citizens, why would I want to do it in my pants in front of a screen while pretending to work? Madness."

[loose cannon]

Let me clarify, it's not about are they coming or who has what were and when or if I like it or not
The point I was Making was that there is no cheap ev for the masses with a long range 2017 is not now and currently there ain't any let's carry on with the discussion in 2017 when there is supposedly a game changer coming out,
Quite how that got twisted to me stating nobody should drive an ev is beyond me

[kambites]

loose cannon said:

The point I was Making was that there is no cheap ev for the masses with a long range

I don't think anyone actually realised that was the point you were making. Which is a shame because yes, it's entirely true.

That doesn't make the current models bad cars though or make them any less competitive in the markets in which they compete.

[otolith]

loose cannon said:

The point I was Making was that there is no cheap ev for the masses with a long range 2017 is not now and currently there ain't any let's carry on with the discussion in 2017 when there is supposedly a game changer coming out,
Quite how that got twisted to me stating nobody should drive an ev is beyond me

There is no long range EV for the masses, true. The question is whether the masses need a long range EV.

[DonkeyApple]

loose cannon said:

Let me clarify, it's not about are they coming or who has what were and when or if I like it or not
The point I was Making was that there is no cheap ev for the masses with a long range 2017 is not now and currently there ain't any let's carry on with the discussion in 2017 when there is supposedly a game changer coming out,
Quite how that got twisted to me stating nobody should drive an ev is beyond me

To be fair that is the first time you've actually been clear on what the point was you were trying to make.

I agree with you. In this regards, EVs are more akin to premium brands at present. It doesn't mean there isn't a market for them and that some people prefer them over base models etc.

EVs that are cheaper to buy and run than ICE cars will only appear when battery tech changes manifestly. Until then they are cars for people who generally speaking live in urban/suburban environments and have off street parking and have more than one car in the household. So EVs are restricted to millions of potential users at this time instead of tens of millions.

It is arguably why the EVs aimed at the bottom of the market have seemingly failed while those aimed at the premium sector appear to have gained quite good traction.

[kambites]

Looking at the figures, it seems that almost exactly 1% of new car registrations in the UK in September this year were eligible for the plug-in grant, or which the majority were hybrids, so it's still a tiny market at the moment. About 1/250 cars were pure EVs.

They certainly have a long way to go to be worth anyone spending big money on infrastructure.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 13th October 14:40

[loose cannon]

Well I apologise for not making myself more clear on the matter
Perhaps I'm wrong thinking I need more range, but I do like a long road trip after all that's why I'm a member of this forum
And in my sad little world that is what makes me tick, so who is going to take me out in there tesla for a few hours then and and Couple of hundred miles see what all the fuss is about......

[J4CKO]

kambites said:

Looking at the figures, it seems that almost exactly 1% of new car registrations in the UK in September this year were eligible for the plug-in grant, or which the majority were hybrids, so it's still a tiny market at the moment. About 1/250 cars were pure EVs.

They certainly have a long way to go to be worth anyone spending big money on infrastructure.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 13th October 14:40

Or, its a Fait Acomplli and now is the time to throw some money in before the gold rush ?

I wonder how many diesel cars were sold in say 1989, versus ten years later ?


I think so many people want the Tesla so badly, but it is too expensive for 99 percent of the population, the Model 3 will sell and the market needs a decent hatchback.

[kambites]

loose cannon said:

Well I apologise for not making myself more clear on the matter
Perhaps I'm wrong thinking I need more range, but I do like a long road trip after all that's why I'm a member of this forum

There's nothing wrong with wanting to do long drives; just don't make the mistake of believing it's in any way the norm.

[kambites]

J4CKO said:

I think so many people want the Tesla so badly, but it is too expensive for 99 percent of the population, the Model 3 will sell and the market needs a decent hatchback.

I assume (or at least hope) the Tesla model-3 will be a "decent hatchback"? I'm certainly eyeing it as a direct replacement for our Octavia VRS in five to ten years' time. I'll buy a petrol replacement if I have to, but I'd far rather get an EV.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 13th October 14:55

[AyBee]

walm said:

AyBee said:

Except aren't we trying to compare like-for-like in all other respects, or is that just when it suits? I can just about conceive that a 20 minute fill-up is comparable - via a plug socket you're looking at 5 hours with twin chargers and 10 without!

15,000 miles a year on average.
41 miles a day.
Even at 20 miles an hour that still leaves about 22 hours when you aren't using your car and most of that is when you are at home.
So yes - it's comparable for regular commuting or for round trips from home <250 miles.

As loose cannon has pointed out several times - if you want to drive 5 hours non-stop for more than 250 miles every day then an EV probably won't work for you.

The problem is that you can't buy a car on the majority of driving you do, you have to buy it based on all your journeys, otherwise you need another car or to hire cars for journeys that aren't suitable. The majority of your driving can be 41 miles per day, but if you do a number of trips to relatives at over 250 miles away, a 5 hour stop to charge up isn't going to be palatable, a 20 minute supercharge would be, but with 23 stations in the UK, there's a long way to go until that's achievable.

I'm just playing devils advocate, there's no doubt that the EV market is heading in the right direction, but there's still a long way to go IMO.

[loose cannon]

Well you do have a point there to be fair