UK Head of Tesla.... Impressive

[Ares]

bodhi said:

And for those of you struggling with the concept - HOW CAN IT BE THE FUTURE IF IT DOESN'T SUIT EVERYONE?

Seriously, if it's that easy to find genuine reasons why they won't work for everyone, how in any way, are they a replacement for a technology that does work for everyone, and works pretty damned well?

And I haven't even gone there with the unbearable misplaced smugness of your average EV driver.

Is there any car the DOES suit/work for everyone?

[Ares]

lostkiwi said:

The pump price is set by the oil companies not the retailer. I have no reason not to believe what my accountant mate was saying as he has first hand experience of the set up.

We all know the knowledge of all on pistonheads far far supersedes any (so called) expert in any field

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mybrainhurts said:

My ICEs have frequently outlasted their alternators, starter motors and heater blowers.

My washing machines have frequently blown their electric motors.

Someone just suggested Tesla motors will be cheap. If so, where does the huge price tag for their cars come from?

Huge price tag? What car offer as much for less?

[Ares]

Small Car said:

Ares said:

Heard the UK Head of Tesla speak last night (having driven 250miles up from London in an 85D, totally free of cost and not set off fully charged).

Impressive guy and an impressive car as well as business model.

His middle of the range Model S hits 60 in 4 secs, the slightly hotter version does it in 2.8 secs.


But the free to use, supercharging network was something I didn't realise existed. Full charge in 20 mins and totally free to use/charge. True zero-cost motoring. The case for EVs gets stronger.

Think I was at the same thing. The 42 do? A really nice guy. Might pop to Knutsford to try one!

Yes, thats the one.

I've driven one, but dying to try the P85D Insanity. Knutsford have one.....

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yonex said:

lostkiwi said:

kambites said:

yonex said:

How can you talk about EV costs with no experience of ownership?

Is this actually a real question or am I missing a woosh parrot?

I was wondering that too. We already know superchargers are free to Tesla owners. Ergo fuel costs being near zero as stated is a fact. If I had near zero fuel costs it would definitely be [smug mode=on]

Yes. Near zero fuel costs after the £80K investment

Or c£50k if you *only* need 5 secs to 60 type performance. Quite the bargain.

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Elysium said:

lostkiwi said:

I was wondering that too. We already know superchargers are free to Tesla owners. Ergo fuel costs being near zero as stated is a fact. If I had near zero fuel costs it would definitely be [smug mode=on]

Access to the supercharger network is not free. Tesla have rolled the costs into the purchase price. Until recently supercharger access was listed as an optional extra on the 70d and 85d a few months ago. It was about £2,200 from memory.

Unless you happen to live next door to one of these sites there is no possibility that fuel costs will be anywhere near zero. The network is still very sparsely populated:

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/findus#/bounds/65...

Total number of superchargers serving the East Midlands = 2

....but currently opening more at a rate of 1 per week. For an embryonic infrastructure, it's light years ahead of historic infrastructure rollouts.

Cost *may* be rolled into purchase price, although the commercial benefits of host sites suggests that they will be footing at least part of the cost. Regardless, the purchase price of these things is no higher than comparable cars, which makes them even greater economic sense.

[Ares]

Interestingly, I was chatting to an owner last night.

For all those moaning about the timing issue, Teslas have charge scheduling built in. You plug the car in, then set the car to start charging at the time you choose - to max the cheapest tariff.

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yonex said:

kambites said:

So what you're saying is that you don't see the point in big luxury performance saloons? Nothing directly to do with the Tesla at all?

For what it's worth, I pretty much agree. I have no wish to own a model-S or an AMG E/S-class or an M5, or any other car in this sort of market. That doesn't mean I don't find such cars enormously impressive, though.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 15th October 09:54

I do, but I find it ironic when the chief motivator seems to be 'zero fuel costs' when, in comparison a £30K mile muncher affords one hell of a lot of fuel all things considered (depreciation, purchase price) and based upon 15K miles a year how long will it take to even break even?

It is an impressive piece of engineering I totally agree as is the Prius.

But you are comparing apples with pears. The Tesla, even in £50k guise, is a large premium and fast car. No £30k miles muncher really competes. Shove it up to the £80k variant and it is one of the quickest saloon cars available, and still competes on price with other upper large saloon cars before it's massive BIK/running cost/rfl/etc benefits are even factored in.

[Ares]

yonex said:

lostkiwi said:

But you aren't comparing apples with apples then are you?
If you were in the market for a new high performance luxury saloon then the Tesla stacks up well price wise against its competition. As a side benefit you get very good running costs (in fuel terms).
Yes we all know that if you buy a mile muncher from a lower segment or secondhand the savings will buy a lot of fuel but thats the same for petrol or diesel as well.
People buy diesels to save money on fuel costs (lets face it there is little there reason to buy them) and the Tesla is just an extension of that with the added benefit over a diesel of hypercar performance. Handling should be pretty good (not speaking from experience here) as well as all the batteries and motors are mounted very low down and fairly centrally between the wheels.

What can it be compared to like for like, it's in a niche. Very rapid, a bit bland in the flesh, £100K.

S Class, 7 series or smaller, i8?


An £80k large exec saloon. Find an A8/S-Class/7-series that has 600bhp+ and can hit 60 in c3 secs.

Oh......

What £30k mile muncher were you thinking of?

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yonex said:

Ares said:

yonex said:

What can it be compared to like for like, it's in a niche. Very rapid, a bit bland in the flesh, £100K.

S Class, 7 series or smaller, i8?

An £80k large exec saloon. Find an A8/S-Class/7-series that has 600bhp+ and can hit 60 in c3 secs.

Oh......

What £30k mile muncher were you thinking of?

Which is why I asked the question?

As for what 30K odd car I would buy, probably an Alpina bi-turbo, but then I don't need or wish to spend £100K to 'save' money. As for 3 sec 0-60, the only relevance that has is down the pub.

Last time I checked, the Alpina Bi-Turbo started at well over £50k?

[Ares]

otolith said:

yonex said:

Ares said:

yonex said:

What can it be compared to like for like, it's in a niche. Very rapid, a bit bland in the flesh, £100K.

S Class, 7 series or smaller, i8?

An £80k large exec saloon. Find an A8/S-Class/7-series that has 600bhp+ and can hit 60 in c3 secs.

Oh......

What £30k mile muncher were you thinking of?

Which is why I asked the question?

As for what 30K odd car I would buy, probably an Alpina bi-turbo, but then I don't need or wish to spend £100K to 'save' money. As for 3 sec 0-60, the only relevance that has is down the pub.

If you don't care about the 3-sec 0-60, why are you talking about "£100k"? That's a little over the price of the fastest 2.7 second to 60 model. They start at £51k for a rear drive only car that does 60 in 5.5.

Because he's a pedantic arse that is trying to use whatever means possible to discredit a car that he just doesn't like? And failing.

[Ares]

RobM77 said:

I see many of the concerns people raise as showing interest in the Tesla and in the technology, at least that's the case for me. I find it fascinating and exciting that EV tech is now mainstream and you can walk into a Nissan, VW or Tesla dealership and order a completely normal road car that just happens to be 100% electric.

For me the Tesla is the game changer, they are a huge step ahead from the Nissan/Mitsu/etc offering. EV Gen2 if you like....and its that that is exciting. BMW i3 gets close to that too, but still a generation behind Tesla.

The lesser 'Gen1' EVs, are at least in part compromised from their ICE counterpart. The Tesla takes the fight fairly and squarely to it's ICE contemporaries and bloodies a lot of exec noses in doing so. Same cost, lots of upsides. Only for the high-non-motorway-mileage/park away from the house drivers are they in no way a viable option (....and the pedantic ludites that want to smell the fuel on their hands and will use whatever argument to prove it is not just subjective ;-) )

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mr_spock said:

I've had a test drive in a couple of Teslas, and a mate of mine in California has one. He switched from years of performance BMWs and seems to love it. I'm looking at a possible new job with a long commute, and the maths works out something like:

150 miles round trip per day, 5 days a week, 47 weeks per year, mostly on fast A roads or motorway.

Current car (2003 XJ6) does about 30MPG on a run, so lets take this as a target for a nice riding car with adequate performance. I'll ignore servicing as the costs look similar to the Tesla.

Petrol:
150 miles @ 30mpg = 5 gallons per day = 22l
22 litres @ £1.15 = £25.30 per day
This is £5945 a year

Tesla:
Fuel costs zero or negligible (there's a Supercharger near home and reachable at lunch times from the office)
Lease cost about £800 per month, or £9600 a year

That means a new Tesla costs me about £300 a month net, which I think is reasonable for a luxury performance saloon. When I have to replace the Jag, I'm looking at spending £15-25K on something used, which equates to about £700 a month if I use savings and "pay it back" to myself - plus the petrol costs! I'm assuming depreciation to zero of course - actually the Tesla would be worth 50% of new price (Tesla guarantee) while a used car would lose more with 90K extra miles on it.

Man maths? Maybe, but it seems to work. Add on some non-commuting mileage and it's even better.

Add in the tax break (massive if a company purchase) and the brand new exec car with 8yr unlimited warranty Vs £15/25k snotter (and the costs it will come with), costs stack up even more in the Tesla's favour.

....then there is the performance. And the fact it's brand new car.