RE: McLaren 570S - the numbers

[bertie]

big_rob_sydney said:

Wow. So thats what its come to now? A scientific piece of equipment is "out", and "a supercar should be special" is "in".

I have literally heard it all now.

This is the perfect example of just how desperately foolish people have become.

Tell me, is the earth still flat for you? When you get sick, do you see a doctor, or do you practise leeching? Burned any witches at the stake recently? Hmm, have you heard of fire, or electricity?

Please, do continue. I've just finished laughing so hard I almost spilt my coffee all over my computer.

I think the point being made is it sounds like performance stats and lap times are all you care about which I'm sure isn't the case.

There's much more to enjoying or desiring a car than its figures, which I'm sure you'd agree on.

Which appeal is a very personal thing, and it would be a sad world if we all wanted the same thing.

[anonymous-user]

As Chris Harris points out, McLaren have set out not to make the fastest car but a car to have fun in.

Sounds good to me!

[andyps]

big_rob_sydney said:

andyps said:

big_rob_sydney said:

You decry the GTR as being too technical, but then what is the Macca? A Car for Fred Flintstone? No, you yourself have actually said of the BRAND, in capitals no less, and specifically of one of their leading cars, and I quote, "technological masterpiece that is the P1".

Ironic, isnt it? You discount the GTR for its tech, and yet seem to be very positive when imbued into the Big Mac. I'm not sure if that makes you a hypocrite or not, but it sounds like your grandma at least has gotten over it... Your position is not cohesive at all, I'm afraid.

Is having tech a bad thing? I dont really care, to be honest. As I've said repeatedly, the stopwatch never lies, unlike owners who laughingly try to magic up "soul" and "specialness". Big low tech engine, or smaller high tech, it matters not a jot to me. Come back to the impartial stopwatch.

Yes, I bang on about performance (this IS pistonheads after all, not www.knitting.com) and yes I'd like to not blow an excessive chunk of wedge on something simply because of its BRAND (oh, snap, I capitalised it. Does that make me shallow?).

The stopwatch does lie. Take times around the place in Germany too many people obsess about. Sure, one driver with lots of experience of the track and car can, on a specific day, produce a particular time. Now tell me what percentage of the population (even of those who can afford the car in question, whether a GTR or supercar) could replicate that on the day they visit. It is a meaningless figure and therefore, to all intents and purposes, untrue (a lie) for the vast majority of people.

But a supercar should be special and make the owner/driver feel special. Sorry, a GTR is not even relevant to compare with a 570S on that measure. And who cares about the stopwatch (but if you do please look here for an example that a GTR doesn't necessarily do particularly well - http://www.harewoodhill.com/downloads/pdf/eventRes... - with the cars listed here - http://www.harewoodhill.com/downloads/pdf/entryLis... - for the record have a look at the times of Paul Anderson and Daniel Hollis, Paul was in an absolutely unmodified Evo 7, Daniel in a very recent GTR, Daniel having won the Harewood championship the year before in a different car so definitely knows how to drive fast. On your basis the stopwatch never lies an Evo 7 is better than a Nissan GTR)

Wow. So thats what its come to now? A scientific piece of equipment is "out", and "a supercar should be special" is "in".

I have literally heard it all now.

This is the perfect example of just how desperately foolish people have become.

Tell me, is the earth still flat for you? When you get sick, do you see a doctor, or do you practise leeching? Burned any witches at the stake recently? Hmm, have you heard of fire, or electricity?

Please, do continue. I've just finished laughing so hard I almost spilt my coffee all over my computer.

I really shouldn't do this, but what the hell. You criticise the suggestion of unscientific being better, but then completely ignore the more evidence based element of my reply because that probably doesn't suit your purpose.

garyhun said:

As Chris Harris points out, McLaren have set out not to make the fastest car but a car to have fun in.

Sounds good to me!

But it won't be as fast as a GTR.

[big_rob_sydney]

andyps said:

big_rob_sydney said:

andyps said:

big_rob_sydney said:

You decry the GTR as being too technical, but then what is the Macca? A Car for Fred Flintstone? No, you yourself have actually said of the BRAND, in capitals no less, and specifically of one of their leading cars, and I quote, "technological masterpiece that is the P1".

Ironic, isnt it? You discount the GTR for its tech, and yet seem to be very positive when imbued into the Big Mac. I'm not sure if that makes you a hypocrite or not, but it sounds like your grandma at least has gotten over it... Your position is not cohesive at all, I'm afraid.

Is having tech a bad thing? I dont really care, to be honest. As I've said repeatedly, the stopwatch never lies, unlike owners who laughingly try to magic up "soul" and "specialness". Big low tech engine, or smaller high tech, it matters not a jot to me. Come back to the impartial stopwatch.

Yes, I bang on about performance (this IS pistonheads after all, not www.knitting.com) and yes I'd like to not blow an excessive chunk of wedge on something simply because of its BRAND (oh, snap, I capitalised it. Does that make me shallow?).

The stopwatch does lie. Take times around the place in Germany too many people obsess about. Sure, one driver with lots of experience of the track and car can, on a specific day, produce a particular time. Now tell me what percentage of the population (even of those who can afford the car in question, whether a GTR or supercar) could replicate that on the day they visit. It is a meaningless figure and therefore, to all intents and purposes, untrue (a lie) for the vast majority of people.

But a supercar should be special and make the owner/driver feel special. Sorry, a GTR is not even relevant to compare with a 570S on that measure. And who cares about the stopwatch (but if you do please look here for an example that a GTR doesn't necessarily do particularly well - http://www.harewoodhill.com/downloads/pdf/eventRes... - with the cars listed here - http://www.harewoodhill.com/downloads/pdf/entryLis... - for the record have a look at the times of Paul Anderson and Daniel Hollis, Paul was in an absolutely unmodified Evo 7, Daniel in a very recent GTR, Daniel having won the Harewood championship the year before in a different car so definitely knows how to drive fast. On your basis the stopwatch never lies an Evo 7 is better than a Nissan GTR)

Wow. So thats what its come to now? A scientific piece of equipment is "out", and "a supercar should be special" is "in".

I have literally heard it all now.

This is the perfect example of just how desperately foolish people have become.

Tell me, is the earth still flat for you? When you get sick, do you see a doctor, or do you practise leeching? Burned any witches at the stake recently? Hmm, have you heard of fire, or electricity?

Please, do continue. I've just finished laughing so hard I almost spilt my coffee all over my computer.

I really shouldn't do this, but what the hell. You criticise the suggestion of unscientific being better, but then completely ignore the more evidence based element of my reply because that probably doesn't suit your purpose.

garyhun said:

As Chris Harris points out, McLaren have set out not to make the fastest car but a car to have fun in.

Sounds good to me!

But it won't be as fast as a GTR.

Thank you Andy, on your last point, I think we are finally in agreement.

[Guvernator]

Comparing on paper stats was something I used to obsess over when I was 17, you know before I got to drive any cars, then I started to drive and speed was my one obsession but I didn't have a lot of money so again I'd spend hours pouring over magazines to try to work out which car had the quickest 0-60\0-100 for the least money.

However eventually I grew up and realised that going fast is just one facet of a cars enjoyment and there was a lot more to my passion then being able to beat someone off the lights.

Anyway back to the McLaren discussion I actually don't like the higher model McLaren's, they just feel too clinical for a super\hypercar which IMO should be all about passion. However at this price point the 570s is a winner, especially when you compare it the the other stuff it's up against, a 911 Turbo or R8 just aren't in the same league IMO. So until either Lamborghini or Ferrari release a car near £120k, this is the king.

What do we reckon, £60k in 3-4 years time? Would make an excellent used buy IMO. Wonder what the running costs are going to be like on these?

[mattf93]

Guvernator said:

Comparing on paper stats was something I used to obsess over when I was 17, you know before I got to drive any cars, then I started to drive and speed was my one obsession but I didn't have a lot of money so again I'd spend hours pouring over magazines to try to work out which car had the quickest 0-60\0-100 for the least money.

However eventually I grew up and realised that going fast is just one facet of a cars enjoyment and there was a lot more to my passion then being able to beat someone off the lights.

Anyway back to the McLaren discussion I actually don't like the higher model McLaren's, they just feel too clinical for a super\hypercar which IMO should be all about passion. However at this price point the 570s is a winner, especially when you compare it the the other stuff it's up against, a 911 Turbo or R8 just aren't in the same league IMO. So until either Lamborghini or Ferrari release a car near £120k, this is the king.

What do we reckon, £60k in 3-4 years time? Would make an excellent used buy IMO. Wonder what the running costs are going to be like on these?

Ferrari are bringing out a dino (pretty much done deal) which will compete around this price point.

£60k sounds too low to me. Running costs will most likely be high in terms of insurance and petrol costs - not sure what mclaren offer in terms of servicing packages?

[big_rob_sydney]

Guvernator said:

Comparing on paper stats was something I used to obsess over when I was 17, you know before I got to drive any cars, then I started to drive and speed was my one obsession but I didn't have a lot of money so again I'd spend hours pouring over magazines to try to work out which car had the quickest 0-60\0-100 for the least money.

However eventually I grew up and realised that going fast is just one facet of a cars enjoyment and there was a lot more to my passion then being able to beat someone off the lights.

Anyway back to the McLaren discussion I actually don't like the higher model McLaren's, they just feel too clinical for a super\hypercar which IMO should be all about passion. However at this price point the 570s is a winner, especially when you compare it the the other stuff it's up against, a 911 Turbo or R8 just aren't in the same league IMO. So until either Lamborghini or Ferrari release a car near £120k, this is the king.

What do we reckon, £60k in 3-4 years time? Would make an excellent used buy IMO. Wonder what the running costs are going to be like on these?

Bless, you must be all grown up then.

Good to see you with a realistic view of the horrendous depreciation monster, too. Some people around here behave as if they're in some utopian fantasy-land where its non-existent. Come lease expiry, they'll be crying into their soy lattes.

[sealtt]

Guvernator said:

Comparing on paper stats was something I used to obsess over when I was 17, you know before I got to drive any cars, then I started to drive and speed was my one obsession but I didn't have a lot of money so again I'd spend hours pouring over magazines to try to work out which car had the quickest 0-60\0-100 for the least money.

However eventually I grew up and realised that going fast is just one facet of a cars enjoyment and there was a lot more to my passion then being able to beat someone off the lights.

Anyway back to the McLaren discussion I actually don't like the higher model McLaren's, they just feel too clinical for a super\hypercar which IMO should be all about passion. However at this price point the 570s is a winner, especially when you compare it the the other stuff it's up against, a 911 Turbo or R8 just aren't in the same league IMO. So until either Lamborghini or Ferrari release a car near £120k, this is the king.

What do we reckon, £60k in 3-4 years time? Would make an excellent used buy IMO. Wonder what the running costs are going to be like on these?

Probably be closer to £100k in 3-4 years time, well for a decent one, these are still £170k when spec'd up! Not that cheap.

I am just interested, which of the McLaren models do you have much driving experience of? I see a lot of people criticise the McLaren range for this 'clinical' feel but I wonder of the people complaining, who has much actual experience with the cars. I've come to grow to feel that the perception of excitement / passion is more about the roads you are driving on than the car! I mean would you rather have a 650s for a day at your favourite track, or the most 'exciting' car you can think of to drive around Swindon in.

[theplumber]

big_rob_sydney said:

Bless, you must be all grown up then.

Good to see you with a realistic view of the horrendous depreciation monster, too. Some people around here behave as if they're in some utopian fantasy-land where its non-existent. Come lease expiry, they'll be crying into their soy lattes.

My god you have some issues..

Why do you find it so hard to understand that depreciation is not as big a deal to some people as it is to you, some people actually buy what they want rather than what depreciates the least or what the stopwatch says is 'best'

I'm starting to think that you are a troll... Either that or you just don't like (or understand) people having more disposable cash to spend on cars than you do..

Edited by theplumber on Friday 23 October 00:23

[mattf93]

theplumber said:

My god you have some issues..

Why do you find it so hard to understand that depreciation is not as big a deal to some people as it is to you, some people actually buy what they want rather than what depreciates the least or what the stopwatch says is 'best'

I'm starting to think that you are a troll... Either that or you just don't like (or understand) people having more disposable cash to spend on cars than you do..

Edited by theplumber on Friday 23 October 00:23

Or have their own opinions on what makes a good/fun car, regardless of how much it costs ££££.... Although there is a degree of money involved its not all about that factor.
Theres more to life than how quick a car will do 40-100mph... its how it gets you there, the cabin you sit in, the sensation it fives you.
If you've ever driven say a 430 or say a manual 355 perhaps you'd understand a little more where some people on here are coming from? People 'justify' feel and emotion, as they want a car that gives them a connection with the road- not some map computer doing absolutely everything for you.

Id rather pedal a 355 'balls to the wall' than 'drive' a GTR at the same pace without breaking a sweat or without thinking. With a capristo exhaust or removal of cats in a 355 even better - what a corker of a noise they make (probably one of the best sounding v8s ever imo)

[JockySteer]

big_rob_sydney said:

a tedious post

I thought the GTR fanboys died out a long time ago. You're fighting a losing and totally pointless battle here Mr Sydney.

[Pesty]

Why does every McLaren thread urn out like this? The thing looks epic. Probably drives like a dream, seems to be a bargain IMO compared to a few of its peers and people band on about depreciation and gtrs not only that it's British taking it to the Italians and kicking arse,

Ffs what's up with you lot

[mattf93]

Pesty said:

Ffs what's up with you lot

I think you'll find its one individual singing the GTR praises... most are saying to come back to what the chat is really about... Mclaren 570s

Tad harsh.

[braddo]

big_rob_sydney said:

This is the perfect example of just how desperately foolish people have become.

Maybe you do have an IQ above 50, but your tunnel vision when you post in threads like this one make it hard to tell. Take the blinkers off.

[mikey k]

Pesty said:

Why does every McLaren thread urn out like this? The thing looks epic. Probably drives like a dream, seems to be a bargain IMO compared to a few of its peers and people band on about depreciation and gtrs not only that it's British taking it to the Italians and kicking arse,

Ffs what's up with you lot

Aston threads usually end up the same
I think the 570 and the 650 are both relative bargains
650's seem to be holding value better than 12C did at the same age
Good luck to them
Remember they've only been "mass" producing road cars a few years