Another "cyclist vs driver" rage story in the news...
Discussion
yonex said:
You're supposed to be a 'professional driver' it seems like you struggle with the general concept. It's not difficult, look twice, pay attention. What you drive kills cyclists, a cyclist will only ever slow your progress.
Have a little think about it. If you can get over your own self importance.
If you were able to understand digby's posts, you may be able to make a sensible contribution to this thread.Have a little think about it. If you can get over your own self importance.
Unfortunately, your knee jerked instead.
yonex said:
You're supposed to be a 'professional driver' it seems like you struggle with the general concept. It's not difficult, look twice, pay attention. What you drive kills cyclists, a cyclist will only ever slow your progress.
Unfortunately we've seen where cyclists try to kill themselves with HGVs too 
Its not one side or the other and theres road layout issues too
yonex said:
Have a little think about it. If you can get over your own self importance.
That cuts both ways Yonex, you could be looking in a mirroryonex said:
You're supposed to be a 'professional driver' it seems like you struggle with the general concept. It's not difficult, look twice...
Calm down poppet.Check twice? Eight checks in mirrors and camera alone before each and every single movement. Then I move on to your method.
AW111 said:
If you were able to understand digby's posts, you may be able to make a sensible contribution to this thread.
Unfortunately, your knee jerked instead.
Feel free to explain, it just seems to me that he is yet another motorist that considers cyclists as the problem, rather than the solution to reducing traffic. Not surprising given the general attitude towards two wheels in here.Unfortunately, your knee jerked instead.
Digby said:
One thing is for sure, some of these cyclists appear to be a sensitive bunch. To suggest some of them are a danger to themselves and to offer up suggestions of how we can change this results in name calling, anger and sarcastic comments.
How fortunate we don't all have that attitude.
Just remember what the op was about. An aHow fortunate we don't all have that attitude.
hole cyclist overreacting to a close pass. What I find frustrating is how, in these threads, there is rarely much condemnation of the motorist who carried out the dangerous manoeuvre. Yes some cyclists can be sensitive and dangerous, as can some pedestrians, mopedists, motorists, (and shh, yes hgv drivers. I expect you enjoy getting tarred with the same dangerous HGV brush as cyclists enjoy getting tarred with the same brush....)yonex said:
Feel free to explain, it just seems to me that he is yet another motorist that considers cyclists as the problem, rather than the solution to reducing traffic. Not surprising given the general attitude towards two wheels in here.
Nah youre reading too much into itHe could be yet another motorist who considers some cyclists as a problem, there are other cyclists, other problems and other motorists.
As soon as your mindset thinks its all of one and none of the other it's doomed
The general attitude to two wheels and anyone else seems open and reasoned
There are some stroppy and blinkered people at the margins who can only see one point of view, but thats why its useful to debate in a forum, to see how reasonable that point of view is
DoubleD said:
Yonex, do you agree that some cyclists don't ride safely?
The number that swarm around HGVs like flies is just moronic. As a cyclist the single most obvious danger to me in the City is the HGV, coach, bus etc. It beggars belief when I see people trying to gain just a few seconds in their journey by genuinely putting their life down in the table as part of their wager. The reality is that someone who will bet their own life for the sake of a few seconds is a f
king idiot. And there is never a suitable place on the roads, regardless of the means of transport for a fking idiot. Given that in the City the typical cyclist is a well educated individual, given that we all know that the spoil trucks are seemingly driven by screaming thickos with little regard for speed limits, no left turns or generally anything around them, given that we know that buses are no longer driven by mellow West Indians but 'good day to die' Pakistani and African loons and let's not forget the cretinous army of modern minicabs and I am staggered at just how thick many cyclists become the moment they get on their bike.
There is a contingent of cyclists who consistently and deliberately go out of their way to instigate aggressive confrontation with other road users.
And then there are the clueless, incompetent cyclists. Often seen in a Boris bike or with a bicycle with a shopping basket and some flowers painted on it. These people are only alive because every single time they go out in the roads all other road users manage to spot them and protect them from themselves.
There is absolutely no doubt that there is some terrible driving in and around the City. It is a zone of self importance and driving styles from across the planet but there is just so, so much that cyclists could be doing to simply not put themselves in the danger that very many are doing.
Many need to stop looking at their journeys as episodes in an ongoing evangelical war where they are the lone warrior of light waging battle against evil, but rather grow the f
k up and start doing what it takes to be a Londoner and make big adjustments to fit in with as much as possible around you. Personally, I would CC the whole of zone 2 and not let in anyone by car or bicycle who isn't a resident of zone 2 as I think that will reduce vastly the number of incompetents driving, cycling through London, the number of intolerant and incompetent individuals who fail to adjust their attitude for driving in the city.
And I would then also start increasing the CC for the residents who repeatedly prove themselves negligent/incompetent drivers. Price them out of their cars.
DoubleD said:
Yonex, do you agree that some cyclists don't ride safely?
Idiots on all sides, absolutely. The main thing as a driver is that no matter how stupid an individual behaves I know my car will hurt them, therefore it's always going to be me who tries to be reasonable, despite the obvious Darwinism. yonex said:
DoubleD said:
Yonex, do you agree that some cyclists don't ride safely?
Idiots on all sides, absolutely. The main thing as a driver is that no matter how stupid an individual behaves I know my car will hurt them, therefore it's always going to be me who tries to be reasonable, despite the obvious Darwinism. I suspect that generally, those individuals are a hazard to absolutely all road users and we would all benefit from them being priced off the road.
I would love to see the cretins of the road having their CC and VED jacked up as a result of aggressive driving as pricing idiots out is the only real means to reverse some of the rot.
yonex said:
Idiots on all sides, absolutely. The main thing as a driver is that no matter how stupid an individual behaves I know my car will hurt them, therefore it's always going to be me who tries to be reasonable, despite the obvious Darwinism.
Responsibility for road safety lies with all road users, regardless of vehicle type. yonex said:
Feel free to explain, it just seems to me that he is yet another motorist that considers cyclists as the problem, rather than the solution to reducing traffic. Not surprising given the general attitude towards two wheels in here.
You're conflating two separate issues - traffic and safety. yonex said:
Feel free to explain, it just seems to me that he is yet another motorist that considers cyclists as the problem, rather than the solution to reducing traffic. Not surprising given the general attitude towards two wheels in here.
Thing with lorry driving is that EVERYTHING is ultimately the drivers responsibility and this isn't well paid work. He is supposed to checks all of his mirrors and do a blind spot check every time he moves off and as already state he has 8 mirrors and a camera to check, by the time he has finished checking his mirrors someone could have crept up the side of him where he thought it was clear. There is only so much he can do, even the most careful driver physically cannot have eyes all over such a large vehicle all of them time when people are swarming around it.
I drive all different types of vehicles so have a better idea than most about how they all react, but I understand that not everyone has that understanding. That said, it cannot take much common sense for someone to tell that driver of big stuff still have the same eyes as everyone else and aren't super heros, so why would anyone take risks around them? If you can't make eye contact with the driver, stay well away. It seems a lot of people that get squashed in London are educate types, but the seem to completely lack any common sense, like it has been educated out of them and they have existed in and idealistic bubble where no bad ever happens.
DonkeyApple said:
The number that swarm around HGVs like flies is just moronic. As a cyclist the single most obvious danger to me in the City is the HGV, coach, bus etc. It beggars belief when I see people trying to gain just a few seconds in their journey by genuinely putting their life down in the table as part of their wager.
According to some, this never happens apparently. Go back through this thread and look at some of the labels thrown at me for daring to say it does and to make suggestions as to what could be done about it..I make exaggerated claims.
I have disgusting ignorance.
I am a terrible driver.
I have an irrational hatred of cyclists.
I'm a victim-blaming ignoramus.
I (and the industry) refuse to accept responsibility.
Apparently I work alongside unqualified drivers.
I have blinkered views.
I need to be better and seem to struggle daily.
I have a s
tty attitude.I am self important.
Mr Gear said:
Digby said:
At least they have done something. Maybe they should suggest a cycle ban during rush hour.
Yeah, i think you'll find the wind is blowing the other way. Your stty attitude is in the minority thank goodness.http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/20...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/hazardous-we...
http://www.commercialmotor.com/latest-news/london-...
Mave said:
What I find frustrating is how, in these threads, there is rarely much condemnation of the motorist who carried out the dangerous manoeuvre.
Not from me. I even suggest in this thread I see shocking driving from HGV's and cars.Edited by Digby on Sunday 22 November 13:14
Just as if to prove a point, heading to Regents Park this morning the usual Doris on a pushbike was trundle down the side road, oblivious to any road users, pulled in to the left and then changed her mind and turned right. The incoming minicab had to stop violently and I had luckily already spotted and classified the cyclist as a moron do was hanging back. She gave a little wave to acknowledge that she had nearly killed herself and went on her merry way to the Edgware Road.
That was the exact sort of moron who would cycle up the inside of an HGV indicating left and whose parents would then bleat about the dangers of negligent HGV drivers once they'd collected her puréed remnants.
And of course, Regents Park itself had the usual spastics out looking for a Sunday morning confrontation with an evil car driver. You can actually watch these people wait for a car door to open and then speed up and swerve towards it so as to create a situation they can then scream about. Troubled people. But it is better that they are in bikes because you catagorically don't want such damaged punters loose in cars!
Yet all around, the vast majority were just normal people, being civilised and being considerate to all types of road users.
They are the minorities. For both cretinous car users and cyclists. The only real difference is that the cyclist will die as a result of his cretinous actions and that does make it all the more 'special' for them to act like that.
That was the exact sort of moron who would cycle up the inside of an HGV indicating left and whose parents would then bleat about the dangers of negligent HGV drivers once they'd collected her puréed remnants.
And of course, Regents Park itself had the usual spastics out looking for a Sunday morning confrontation with an evil car driver. You can actually watch these people wait for a car door to open and then speed up and swerve towards it so as to create a situation they can then scream about. Troubled people. But it is better that they are in bikes because you catagorically don't want such damaged punters loose in cars!
Yet all around, the vast majority were just normal people, being civilised and being considerate to all types of road users.
They are the minorities. For both cretinous car users and cyclists. The only real difference is that the cyclist will die as a result of his cretinous actions and that does make it all the more 'special' for them to act like that.
DonkeyApple said:
Just as if to prove a point, heading to Regents Park this morning the usual Doris on a pushbike was trundle down the side road, oblivious to any road users, pulled in to the left and then changed her mind and turned right. The incoming minicab had to stop violently and I had luckily already spotted and classified the cyclist as a moron do was hanging back. She gave a little wave to acknowledge that she had nearly killed herself and went on her merry way to the Edgware Road.
That was the exact sort of moron who would cycle up the inside of an HGV indicating left and whose parents would then bleat about the dangers of negligent HGV drivers once they'd collected her puréed remnants.
And of course, Regents Park itself had the usual spastics out looking for a Sunday morning confrontation with an evil car driver. You can actually watch these people wait for a car door to open and then speed up and swerve towards it so as to create a situation they can then scream about. Troubled people. But it is better that they are in bikes because you catagorically don't want such damaged punters loose in cars!
Yet all around, the vast majority were just normal people, being civilised and being considerate to all types of road users.
They are the minorities. For both cretinous car users and cyclists. The only real difference is that the cyclist will die as a result of his cretinous actions and that does make it all the more 'special' for them to act like that.
Agreed, good post. And it seems to me that Digby is simply saying "I've done all that I can, now some cyclists need to take responsibility too." I do not know why some on this thread have been so negative/rude to Digby's generally reasonable tone.That was the exact sort of moron who would cycle up the inside of an HGV indicating left and whose parents would then bleat about the dangers of negligent HGV drivers once they'd collected her puréed remnants.
And of course, Regents Park itself had the usual spastics out looking for a Sunday morning confrontation with an evil car driver. You can actually watch these people wait for a car door to open and then speed up and swerve towards it so as to create a situation they can then scream about. Troubled people. But it is better that they are in bikes because you catagorically don't want such damaged punters loose in cars!
Yet all around, the vast majority were just normal people, being civilised and being considerate to all types of road users.
They are the minorities. For both cretinous car users and cyclists. The only real difference is that the cyclist will die as a result of his cretinous actions and that does make it all the more 'special' for them to act like that.
Mike.
Brave Fart said:
Agreed, good post. And it seems to me that Digby is simply saying "I've done all that I can, now some cyclists need to take responsibility too." I do not know why some on this thread have been so negative/rude to Digby's generally reasonable tone.
Mike.
Apart from the terrible autocorrecting! Mike.
I also took it that as an HGV driver he had and does do everything he can.
Frankly, when a cyclists deliberately chosen to put themselves into a potentially lethal situation then they are (in the City) educated and mature people and so we have to accept that they have chosen to gamble their life at that point of time and so let them free to die as that was their choice to make.
It's no different from choosing to do a bungee jump when you know that it is being run by Stevie Wonder. As much as Stevie might try, ultimately, he can't f
king see if you're clipped on. You know this and it is your choice. When it doesn't pan out, it's simply not Stevie's fault. You knew he couldn't see a damn thing!Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff