RE: Mercedes-AMG C63 vs. BMW M4
Discussion
Guvernator said:
I'm a BMW\Merc salesmen's wet dream and I was very interested in the new M3\M4, that is until I drove one and realised it was a remapped 335i which is a nice car in it's own right (I've owned one) but it ain't no M car.
Have to disagree with your last statement... Over the past few years I have gone from 335i > E92 M3 > M135i > M4The M4 is way way more than a mapped 335i and is most definitely an M car (the M135i was more like the 335i than an M too).
RossP said:
Have to disagree with your last statement... Over the past few years I have gone from 335i > E92 M3 > M135i > M4
The M4 is way way more than a mapped 335i and is most definitely an M car (the M135i was more like the 335i than an M too).
Disagree away, enjoying the discussion The M4 is way way more than a mapped 335i and is most definitely an M car (the M135i was more like the 335i than an M too).
To me the engine makes 80% of the character of the car and the engine in the M4 i.e. the twin turbo i6 with slugs of low down torque but flat feeling up top, feels too similar in character to the engine in the 335i for me. It's a great engine, just not very exciting for me personally in terms of the characteristics I look for (noise,revs and top end zing) but I know others love it so I'm not going to tell you you're wrong either (PH tm).
RossP said:
Guvernator said:
I'm a BMW\Merc salesmen's wet dream and I was very interested in the new M3\M4, that is until I drove one and realised it was a remapped 335i which is a nice car in it's own right (I've owned one) but it ain't no M car.
Have to disagree with your last statement... Over the past few years I have gone from 335i > E92 M3 > M135i > M4The M4 is way way more than a mapped 335i and is most definitely an M car (the M135i was more like the 335i than an M too).
CorvetteConvert said:
Never in a million years. The Arnage looks like the tank who ate all the pies. The Corvette is sleek and attractive, very menacing from some angles also. The 2008 Z06 is anyway. The LS2/LS3 motor is the perfect engine for just about every single automotive use imaginable! We've had smaller, lighter American sports cars many times, the Fiero for one. They don't cut it and never have done. Why the hang-up with pushrods? The basic American V8 is the best overall engine of ALL time, for the reason that it is not just lightweight but incredibly capable. Why do you think that Bentley use the same design for their posh models and Ultima, who could use anything, choose a Yank V8? I raced Sprint Cars for 2 years in America (for those unaware, we are talking 600 bhp V8s and 130 mph sideways in the turns on a half-mile dirt oval) and no other engine ever came close to the V8s. Exactly like Formula 1 Stock Car racing out there and here. V12s were tried and abandoned. The same as Drag racing here and worldwide. V8 pushrod engines rule. V6s and V12s were tried and shelved. 6 THOUSAND bhp from an 8 litre V8 with pushrods is might impressive, as is the 0-110 mph in ONE second that they are capable of, en route to 0-300 in under 5 seconds. I know people with boats in California with 2 Chevvy V8 engines. There isn't another engine on the planet to compete for price/power capability/easy servicing. Like someone else suggested on another thread, a lightly tuned 6.2 litre LS3 with 500 bhp would make an awesome Westfield or similar.
The Arnage looks very sleek and lithe for such a big barge, but the Corvettes have always been gaudy, plasticky horrors, and the C7 compounds its woes by trying to look muscular and brawny. It's like Arnold Schwarzenegger trying to be James Bond.LSs are too big and too heavy to be perfect engines for most applications. An LS3 weighs 208kg, and that's simply far too much in a small, lightweight sports car. Bear in mind that a Caterfield only weighs about 500kg with a Ford 4-pot - the LS would add a good 90kg to that, and the chassis and tyres simply cannot take that amount of power and (more importantly) torque. The American V8 isn't anywhere near the best engine of all time: sure, some people boost them to hell, but the 2-pushrod-actuated-valve idea was obsolete 50 years ago and hasn't got any better since, you're still not flowing as much through the head as you could with four or five valves actuated by two camshafts, and valve float sets in much earlier. Ultimas are kit cars, you can put whatever you like in them, McLaren built at least one with a BMW S70 V12 as a test mule for the F1. The Bentley engine owes only its basic configuration to the contemporary American engines, and it was supposed to have been retired in the early 1990s (a quad-cam 6-litre replacement was designed, built and tested successfully) but for some reason they've kept it going. It's fine in a big saloon, but not for any sporting application. Drag racing? An idiotic sport practiced exclusively by Americans - but there are some bloody powerful drag cars that aren't V8s. In the production-based category I believe the record is currently held by a 3000bhp 2JZ-powered Mk4 Toyota Supra. Price? LSs are very expensive outwith the US and not as cheap as their proponents would have you believe within the US. They're not that robust, either - there's a big class-action lawsuit going on at the moment over grenaded LS7s.
The Fiero didn't cut it because the execution was bad and the engine awful, not because the idea was a bad one. Toyota did the same thing with the MR2 and it was wonderful.
BMW really ought to stop being silly and offer these car in Touring form as well. I've always liked the C63 AMG mercs but agree with the earlier poster who said the styling is way off point on this version. Also, I thought the noise wasn't 'synthesized' any more and was just fed back through the stereo speakers from underbonnet mics? Either way I'm sure it must be possible to disable that feature somewhere in the ECU settings!
Edited by vsonix on Saturday 31st October 18:32
a6khu said:
I thought the C63's ride was firm so if this article is suggesting the M4's is worse still, I wonder if I could actually live with one everyday on my local roads. Ride comfort forms a critical part on my choice of cars and I so wanted to own one of these. Maybe i'm just getting old !
Sounds like you need an Alpina over an M then 
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