RE: Bicycle tech for Caterham

[Chequred Demon]

Being of a certain age, I remember BSA tried to lighten their trials motorcycles of 1966 using titanium etc at huge expense.

http://www.motorsportretro.com/2010/10/english-bea...

By 1973 Speedwell did manage to use the technology successfully in the "Titalite" bicycle frame.

http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/archive/index.php/...

IMO: No point wasting money on lightweight components if you can shed a few pounds on the smelly, hairy, water filled bag driving/riding the thing.

Edited by Chequred Demon on Wednesday 28th October 07:50

[CrutyRammers]

Mr2Mike said:

battered said:

Cost, basically. The existing 7 chassis has a lot of box tubes. That stuff is dirt cheap and presents nice flat surfaces for welding. Now take round tubes and weld one to another at 90 degrees. Ah, can't just cut them square any more, can you? In addition butted tubes demand that you know the length in advance, because the middle of the tube is too thin to take the braze. That adds cost.

The Caterham chassis (and the Lotus before it) are mostly made from round section tubes anyway. It's the clones that use RHS (e.g. Westfield, Dax, MK, MNR, Locost etc.)

Nope: Dax MC Chassis:


The stronger car engine chassis is mostly square though.

[Smitters]

Chequred Demon said:

IMO: No point wasting money on lightweight components if you can shed a few pounds on the smelly, hairy, water filled bag driving/riding the thing.

Try telling that to 90kgs of MAMIL poured into 60kgs worth of lycra on a £5,000 carbon road bike.

[T0MMY]

CrutyRammers said:

Nope: Dax MC Chassis:


The stronger car engine chassis is mostly square though.

Seems like it's harder to find a clone that doesn't use round section these days. Caterham elitism is what it is

[mygoldfishbowl]

After this change will Caterham drivers start making foolish decisions in life, become militant and start generally behaving like cocks?

[T0MMY]

mygoldfishbowl said:

After this change will Caterham drivers start making foolish decisions in life, become militant and start generally behaving like cocks?

Wait a minute...do SUVs use bicycle tubing at all in their construction?

[mygoldfishbowl]

T0MMY said:

mygoldfishbowl said:

After this change will Caterham drivers start making foolish decisions in life, become militant and start generally behaving like cocks?

Wait a minute...do SUVs use bicycle tubing at all in their construction?

I have no idea but it may explain a lot.

[Sway]

Chequred Demon said:

IMO: No point wasting money on lightweight components if you can shed a few pounds on the smelly, hairy, water filled bag driving/riding the thing.

Edited by Chequred Demon on Wednesday 28th October 07:50

Really don't understand this opinion - should it really be a requirement that the driver is at the lowest end of the BMI scale before they should think of lightweight components on their car? Besides, a kilo saved from the wheels will have a greater effect than a kilo lost from the waist.

My view is I don't care how heavy or not the operator is, that's their choice. If they then enjoy a lighter weight car, I fully support their decision.

[Smitters]

Sway said:

Really don't understand this opinion - should it really be a requirement that the driver is at the lowest end of the BMI scale before they should think of lightweight components on their car? Besides, a kilo saved from the wheels will have a greater effect than a kilo lost from the waist.

My view is I don't care how heavy or not the operator is, that's their choice. If they then enjoy a lighter weight car, I fully support their decision.

Looking at some of the gentleman racers in the British GT championship, I'd say talent is more important than waist measurement for speed too. A few high scoring cars out there that are fuelled partly by pies...

[xRIEx]

Smitters said:

Sway said:

Really don't understand this opinion - should it really be a requirement that the driver is at the lowest end of the BMI scale before they should think of lightweight components on their car? Besides, a kilo saved from the wheels will have a greater effect than a kilo lost from the waist.

My view is I don't care how heavy or not the operator is, that's their choice. If they then enjoy a lighter weight car, I fully support their decision.

Looking at some of the gentleman racers in the British GT championship, I'd say talent is more important than waist measurement for speed too. A few high scoring cars out there that are fuelled partly by pies...

But those cars are running a minimun of what? 1200-1300kg? 10kg to them is a smaller percentage than 5kg is to a 520kg Caterham.

[Gandahar]

6 months later same news

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ultra-l...
http://www.evo.co.uk/caterham/7/17572/caterham-tri...

Looking forward to Autumn 2016 where I can hear again about Caterham and some light tubing.

Why is this being reported again? Slow news weekend?

[Bushi]

Gandahar said:

6 months later same news

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ultra-l...
http://www.evo.co.uk/caterham/7/17572/caterham-tri...

Looking forward to Autumn 2016 where I can hear again about Caterham and some light tubing.

Why is this being reported again? Slow news weekend?

Its not the same news at all.

They have now built it, tested it and costed it.

[Equus]

Evilex said:

I wonder if Reynolds have developed a steel alloy specifically for the Caterham application, or if they're using an existing (bike related?) product.

It's just mild steel in this instance - nothing fancy.

[jamespink]

Double butted tubing is only really a mid point with bicycle tubing. Columbus in Italy have been making triple butted and internally rifled tubing that increases torsional stiffness where needed for 25+ years. It's a whole industry with hundreds of steel subtly different tubes, then even more alloy tubes... https://www.flickr.com/photos/oaxacacoast/

[George111]

CrutyRammers said:

Mr2Mike said:

battered said:

Cost, basically. The existing 7 chassis has a lot of box tubes. That stuff is dirt cheap and presents nice flat surfaces for welding. Now take round tubes and weld one to another at 90 degrees. Ah, can't just cut them square any more, can you? In addition butted tubes demand that you know the length in advance, because the middle of the tube is too thin to take the braze. That adds cost.

The Caterham chassis (and the Lotus before it) are mostly made from round section tubes anyway. It's the clones that use RHS (e.g. Westfield, Dax, MK, MNR, Locost etc.)

Nope: Dax MC Chassis:


The stronger car engine chassis is mostly square though.

My Dax Rush Bike engined chassis (with the RAC roll cage as above) is all round tube, built in 2002 well before Caterham thought of using it. Dedion rear, camber compensation front with double wishbones. Also wide enough for a normal European man to sit in it with size 11 feet unlike the Caterham which seems to have been designed for ballerinas

There were a lot of issues with Caterham chassis of that era cracking around the rear diff IIRC as engines got more torquey.

[EnglishTony]

Evilex said:

Oz83 said:

I'm sure they have done their homework but the thing with bike frames is that they don't have to take any sideways loads. I wonder how these butted tube sets fare in the event of a side impact crash.

The chassis would be triangulated in more than the one plane that a cycle frame (excluding the stays) exhibits. That ought to deliver the required resistance to lateral stresses / impacts.

Hopefully they'll crash test a few for type approval anyway!

Caterham & type approval?

That said if you are worried about crash safety why are you in a Caterham?

[Equus]

Adam Ansel said:

A real world crash is not usually a single impact, like the tests are.
Talk to an accident repairer about what happens to aluminium in impacts.
See video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuIijDlH1PI

Yes, sorry, I forgot about all the real-world impacts where gangs of pixies jump out and tear your door skins off with pliers.

[Equus]

Adam Ansel said:

A real world crash is not usually a single impact, like the tests are.
Talk to an accident repairer about what happens to aluminium in impacts.
See video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuIijDlH1PI

Yes, sorry - I forgot about all the real-world impacts where gangs of pixies jump out and tear your door skins off with pliers.

[Equus]

George111 said:

My Dax Rush Bike engined chassis (with the RAC roll cage as above) is all round tube, built in 2002 well before Caterham thought of using it.

I hate to disappoint you, but Caterham, and Lotus before them, have been using round tube on the Seven since the late 1950's.

[Adam Ansel]

EnglishTony said:

Caterham & type approval?

That said if you are worried about crash safety why are you in a Caterham?

Have you seen the crashes in Caterham racing?
I was in a Caterham club and most members had had a "big one". The chassis is effectively one big roll cage. Far safer than a folded aluminium modern day Lotus that just tears in a crash.