RE: Chevrolet Camaro: Driven
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
bigalx said:
Appreciate its not to everyone's tastes but its disgusting to think that you can get the V6 for £16k when you cant even get a decent spec'd Fiesta for that price.
Just think of the cars you could have if you had prices like that - proves how much we are being ripped off - I wont even mention fuel prices either..!
But you can't, comparing US prices converted to sterling is pointless.Just think of the cars you could have if you had prices like that - proves how much we are being ripped off - I wont even mention fuel prices either..!
The V6 costs 25k.... that's the reality.
Because believe it or not, most people in America get paid in USD$ at a US wage rate. They don't funnily enough get paid in £ sterling, then allowed to convert it.
300bhp/ton said:
unsprung said:
Are you saying that Britons enjoy higher wages than their US cousins? And / or that UK households are able to purchase more with their wages than the folks on the other side of the Atlantic?
I'm saying its relative. ie
If you earn £30k a year here it doesn't mean the same role in the US would pay $45k
Conversely if you earn $30k in the US that doesn't mean the same job would be £19k here.
So in relative terms, the V6 Camaro is not a 16k car to US citizens. It's a 24k car.
Edited by CorvetteConvert on Wednesday 28th October 09:23
Back in 2006 I drove a forklift in for a book manufacturer in Indiana.
I earned $13.60 an hour and worked 12 hour shift.
If I worked the Saturday I earned $27.20 an hour
If I worked a bank holiday I earned $40.80 an hour
Average weekly taking after tax was around $650, but if I worked the whole week I could easily make over $1000
I was taxed at around 6% of my earnings... my medical surcharge was $30 a month
My rent was $300 a month and that included electric and water
My car insurance was approx $70 a month
It cost $36 to fill the tank
In my opinion American's are paid a lot more than Brits, taxed a lot less and their money goes much further.
I earned $13.60 an hour and worked 12 hour shift.
If I worked the Saturday I earned $27.20 an hour
If I worked a bank holiday I earned $40.80 an hour
Average weekly taking after tax was around $650, but if I worked the whole week I could easily make over $1000
I was taxed at around 6% of my earnings... my medical surcharge was $30 a month
My rent was $300 a month and that included electric and water
My car insurance was approx $70 a month
It cost $36 to fill the tank
In my opinion American's are paid a lot more than Brits, taxed a lot less and their money goes much further.
skyrover said:
Back in 2006 I drove a forklift in for a book manufacturer in Indiana.
I earned $13.60 an hour and worked 12 hour shift.
If I worked the Saturday I earned $27.20 an hour
If I worked a bank holiday I earned $40.80 an hour
Average weekly taking after tax was around $650, but if I worked the whole week I could easily make over $1000
I was taxed at around 6% of my earnings... my medical surcharge was $30 a month
My rent was $300 a month and that included electric and water
My car insurance was approx $70 a month
It cost $36 to fill the tank
In my opinion American's are paid a lot more than Brits, taxed a lot less and their money goes much further.
Absolutely right.I earned $13.60 an hour and worked 12 hour shift.
If I worked the Saturday I earned $27.20 an hour
If I worked a bank holiday I earned $40.80 an hour
Average weekly taking after tax was around $650, but if I worked the whole week I could easily make over $1000
I was taxed at around 6% of my earnings... my medical surcharge was $30 a month
My rent was $300 a month and that included electric and water
My car insurance was approx $70 a month
It cost $36 to fill the tank
In my opinion American's are paid a lot more than Brits, taxed a lot less and their money goes much further.
The very first thing i always notice, (usually after the decline in weather), when we come back to the UK from California, is how much we are screwed for money.
The motorist is particularly massacred, financially and otherwise. More and more towns are car-unfriendly, more and more places charge you just to park. Then they wonder why every high street in Britain is awash with derelict shops and charity shops.
300bhp/ton said:
But you can't, comparing US prices converted to sterling is pointless.
The V6 costs 25k.... that's the reality.
Because believe it or not, most people in America get paid in USD$ at a US wage rate. They don't funnily enough get paid in £ sterling, then allowed to convert it.
I appreciate that certain careers in the UK and US have imbalances, however I disagree with your response. I work in the UK for an American company as an accountant - my US colleges get paid more than me even after exchange rates - they pay less tax across all payables in their living and get health care through work. Yes they get very little holiday, but more public holidays - but other than that they are "better off" in virtually everyway.The V6 costs 25k.... that's the reality.
Because believe it or not, most people in America get paid in USD$ at a US wage rate. They don't funnily enough get paid in £ sterling, then allowed to convert it.
What would £16k buy you in the UK for a new car - forget insurance and fuel?!
Recession in the UK meant never eating out and going without in many cases - recession in America meant only being able to eat out twice a week - very bland statement and not necessarily true for all but that's the difference.
Either way - £16k for one of those compared o what else is available to the UK market is ridiculous - £16k to spend on what is available to the US market - different story!
CorvetteConvert said:
skyrover said:
Back in 2006 I drove a forklift in for a book manufacturer in Indiana.
I earned $13.60 an hour and worked 12 hour shift.
If I worked the Saturday I earned $27.20 an hour
If I worked a bank holiday I earned $40.80 an hour
Average weekly taking after tax was around $650, but if I worked the whole week I could easily make over $1000
I was taxed at around 6% of my earnings... my medical surcharge was $30 a month
My rent was $300 a month and that included electric and water
My car insurance was approx $70 a month
It cost $36 to fill the tank
In my opinion American's are paid a lot more than Brits, taxed a lot less and their money goes much further.
Absolutely right.I earned $13.60 an hour and worked 12 hour shift.
If I worked the Saturday I earned $27.20 an hour
If I worked a bank holiday I earned $40.80 an hour
Average weekly taking after tax was around $650, but if I worked the whole week I could easily make over $1000
I was taxed at around 6% of my earnings... my medical surcharge was $30 a month
My rent was $300 a month and that included electric and water
My car insurance was approx $70 a month
It cost $36 to fill the tank
In my opinion American's are paid a lot more than Brits, taxed a lot less and their money goes much further.
The very first thing i always notice, (usually after the decline in weather), when we come back to the UK from California, is how much we are screwed for money.
The motorist is particularly massacred, financially and otherwise. More and more towns are car-unfriendly, more and more places charge you just to park. Then they wonder why every high street in Britain is awash with derelict shops and charity shops.
on a million dollar house.
The price conversation is usually the same; in reality they aren't that cheap with taxes and at least some level of equipment. Convert $ to £ and you're about right. The 5th Generation car was around £38k and sold... not many. This will be no different as they aren't coming here in RHD (and the Mustang is, so do the math).
I love these cars and would very much like to own one (the old ZL1 was epic) but they are tough to find here and importing one just works out very pricey.
I love these cars and would very much like to own one (the old ZL1 was epic) but they are tough to find here and importing one just works out very pricey.
skyrover said:
...money goes much further.
This is the key, I reckon. It's what economists call Purchasing Power Parity. It dispenses with different currencies -- and allows us to compare what can be bought for a given unit of work.The result typically appears in charts with titles like, "Countries ranked by median household income (PPP)."
bigalx said:
I appreciate that certain careers in the UK and US have imbalances, however I disagree with your response. I work in the UK for an American company as an accountant - my US colleges get paid more than me even after exchange rates - they pay less tax across all payables in their living and get health care through work. Yes they get very little holiday, but more public holidays - but other than that they are "better off" in virtually everyway.
What would £16k buy you in the UK for a new car - forget insurance and fuel?!
Recession in the UK meant never eating out and going without in many cases - recession in America meant only being able to eat out twice a week - very bland statement and not necessarily true for all but that's the difference.
Either way - £16k for one of those compared o what else is available to the UK market is ridiculous - £16k to spend on what is available to the US market - different story!
This was my experience, having lived and worked in both countries and in more or less the same role. Now, if only the Americans would speak and write with the same powerful logic and economy of words as their cousins in the UK.What would £16k buy you in the UK for a new car - forget insurance and fuel?!
Recession in the UK meant never eating out and going without in many cases - recession in America meant only being able to eat out twice a week - very bland statement and not necessarily true for all but that's the difference.
Either way - £16k for one of those compared o what else is available to the UK market is ridiculous - £16k to spend on what is available to the US market - different story!
CorvetteConvert said:
They are right though, 300, and that comes from a long-time fan of Yank muscle.
Older USA V8s offered different thrills to modern ones.
Only relatively recently have cars like the Camaro and Mustang and Corvette been given the handling and brakes and interior to bother the Germans and Jaguar.
I had a new-ish Camaro IROC-Z and when it came out it was the new king, but in reality it was a soggy, slow and ponderous beast, shown it's ass big time by anything European at the time.
Recently, say from 2007 on, things have changed. My Corvette is a 2008 and bog stock handles/brakes fantastically well, has 505 bhp and a gorgeous revvy V8.
I would have to say that Pistonheads are right IF they mean that there has been a serious leap in all round performance in the last say 10 years.
Well you likely aren't comparing anything like for like at all. Since when has a Camaro ever been Jaguar or BMW money Older USA V8s offered different thrills to modern ones.
Only relatively recently have cars like the Camaro and Mustang and Corvette been given the handling and brakes and interior to bother the Germans and Jaguar.
I had a new-ish Camaro IROC-Z and when it came out it was the new king, but in reality it was a soggy, slow and ponderous beast, shown it's ass big time by anything European at the time.
Recently, say from 2007 on, things have changed. My Corvette is a 2008 and bog stock handles/brakes fantastically well, has 505 bhp and a gorgeous revvy V8.
I would have to say that Pistonheads are right IF they mean that there has been a serious leap in all round performance in the last say 10 years.
You also need to compare the same time period to the same time period.
For example, this would seem to completely contradict your point of view:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NBOjGyGmz4&in...
And frankly I believe them a whole lot more than I believe you.
bigalx said:
300bhp/ton said:
But you can't, comparing US prices converted to sterling is pointless.
The V6 costs 25k.... that's the reality.
Because believe it or not, most people in America get paid in USD$ at a US wage rate. They don't funnily enough get paid in £ sterling, then allowed to convert it.
I appreciate that certain careers in the UK and US have imbalances, however I disagree with your response. I work in the UK for an American company as an accountant - my US colleges get paid more than me even after exchange rates - they pay less tax across all payables in their living and get health care through work. Yes they get very little holiday, but more public holidays - but other than that they are "better off" in virtually everyway.The V6 costs 25k.... that's the reality.
Because believe it or not, most people in America get paid in USD$ at a US wage rate. They don't funnily enough get paid in £ sterling, then allowed to convert it.
What would £16k buy you in the UK for a new car - forget insurance and fuel?!
Recession in the UK meant never eating out and going without in many cases - recession in America meant only being able to eat out twice a week - very bland statement and not necessarily true for all but that's the difference.
Either way - £16k for one of those compared o what else is available to the UK market is ridiculous - £16k to spend on what is available to the US market - different story!
Overall I suspect people in the US probably earn more in relative terms than people in the UK. So this alone makes things affordable. But in terms of price of car vs annual income or price of a cabbage. Then the difference is probably not so massively different.
Basically it's just unrealistic to look at your UK wage, then look at a US price and claim unfair. Without considering the bigger picture that you aren't actually in the USA.
CorvetteConvert said:
They are right though, 300, and that comes from a long-time fan of Yank muscle.
Older USA V8s offered different thrills to modern ones.
Only relatively recently have cars like the Camaro and Mustang and Corvette been given the handling and brakes and interior to bother the Germans and Jaguar.
I had a new-ish Camaro IROC-Z and when it came out it was the new king, but in reality it was a soggy, slow and ponderous beast, shown it's ass big time by anything European at the time.
Recently, say from 2007 on, things have changed. My Corvette is a 2008 and bog stock handles/brakes fantastically well, has 505 bhp and a gorgeous revvy V8.
I would have to say that Pistonheads are right IF they mean that there has been a serious leap in all round performance in the last say 10 years.
I always loved the look of the 80s IROC-Z. Then I went to test drive one with a view to buy. Apart from the noise it was an awful car. Uncomparable to European stuff from the same era IMO.Older USA V8s offered different thrills to modern ones.
Only relatively recently have cars like the Camaro and Mustang and Corvette been given the handling and brakes and interior to bother the Germans and Jaguar.
I had a new-ish Camaro IROC-Z and when it came out it was the new king, but in reality it was a soggy, slow and ponderous beast, shown it's ass big time by anything European at the time.
Recently, say from 2007 on, things have changed. My Corvette is a 2008 and bog stock handles/brakes fantastically well, has 505 bhp and a gorgeous revvy V8.
I would have to say that Pistonheads are right IF they mean that there has been a serious leap in all round performance in the last say 10 years.
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
I always loved the look of the 80s IROC-Z. Then I went to test drive one with a view to buy. Apart from the noise it was an awful car. Uncomparable to European stuff from the same era IMO.
So what European stuff would you actually compare it too?St John Smythe said:
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
I always loved the look of the 80s IROC-Z. Then I went to test drive one with a view to buy. Apart from the noise it was an awful car. Uncomparable to European stuff from the same era IMO.
So what European stuff would you actually compare it too?Considering pony cars are not part of the UK or EU market, you either compare to similar value and target demographic vehicles (XR3, GTE, etc.) or you compare it to much more expensive cars of similar layout, engine and power (BMW, Porsche, Jag, etc.)
St John Smythe said:
300bhp/ton said:
St John Smythe said:
I always loved the look of the 80s IROC-Z. Then I went to test drive one with a view to buy. Apart from the noise it was an awful car. Uncomparable to European stuff from the same era IMO.
So what European stuff would you actually compare it too?300bhp/ton said:
MrB. said:
I ended up with a Camaro V6 convertible as a rental on a trip from San Francisco to Sonoma County in September. I had hired a Mustang, but Enterprise couldn't supply. Anyway, my point is, I actually quite liked it. Not fast, or dynamic, but just a really nice car. Good-looking ( in my opinion), comfortable, well-equipped and a reasonable steer, I loved my short time with it. This new one looks to improve on a good base, so I'm happy to declare myself a fan!
What sort of cars do you drive to then be able to claim the V6 Camaro is slow???0-60mph in 5.7 sec
1/4 mile in 14.3 sec @ 98mph
The vert might be a bit slower. But it's quicker than anything BMW this side of a 335i.
No offence meant, but I do drive cars I consider to be substantially faster, but, like I said, I'm a fan of the Camaro and apologies if it came across as a flippant remark. It wasn't intended to be.
MrB. said:
Apologies if I sounded flippant, but I'm not really talking about 0-60 or standing 1/4s, more about the feel of the car in normal driving. Like I said, I'm a fan of it, and I loved having the car to drive up Highway One from San Francisco. It's just that it never feels quick, more "relaxed" in its performance. I concur with previous posts about the visibility too, but on the whole, I was very sorry to hand it back after just 3 days.
No offence meant, but I do drive cars I consider to be substantially faster, but, like I said, I'm a fan of the Camaro and apologies if it came across as a flippant remark. It wasn't intended to be.
No need to apologies. I just find it odd, that a car quicker than a Focus ST mk2 can be called slow. Few on here would likely label the ST as slow. And arguably the V6 Camaro is just as attainable in the US and partly aimed at the same demographic as the ST is here.No offence meant, but I do drive cars I consider to be substantially faster, but, like I said, I'm a fan of the Camaro and apologies if it came across as a flippant remark. It wasn't intended to be.
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