RE: BMW M4 vs. Nissan GT-R: Pic Of The Week

[LDN]

nickfrog said:

BORN2bWILD said:

So you don't even understand how quick the GT-R is around the track, I suggest you do more research.
It has held record lap times at the Nururgring, which has p*ssed the Germans off.
Many consider it was built more as a track day car anyway, so find your comments rather surprising.

I am no good at research - I tend to speak to fellow track day peddlers and share/give rides - not many use GTR on track incidentally - if you think the Nurburgring is a typical track then you may need to do some research - or better still - go there more often !

It really isn't a track car by most track drivers' standards. But as road car to destroy any other road going car with ease and without the need of any skill/finesse, it's quite superb. Each to their own though.

Edited by nickfrog on Thursday 12th November 21:32

Yes the GTR is overrated and is just a 'point and squirt' motor. Ok

And the 'ring is not a 'typical' track? What has that got to do with it? It's a benchmark that almost all manufacturers use - and speaking of benchmarks, the GTR set one or two around it. Much to Porcshe et al's displeasure.

There room in the world for more than one type of car and the GTR has had MASSIVE success as a track / race car. Your points are based on the usual inexperienced line of thinking - and can (but rarely is) be applied to most modern supercars. I.e: too heavy, too much technology.

[nickfrog]

LDN said:

nickfrog said:

BORN2bWILD said:

So you don't even understand how quick the GT-R is around the track, I suggest you do more research.
It has held record lap times at the Nururgring, which has p*ssed the Germans off.
Many consider it was built more as a track day car anyway, so find your comments rather surprising.

I am no good at research - I tend to speak to fellow track day peddlers and share/give rides - not many use GTR on track incidentally - if you think the Nurburgring is a typical track then you may need to do some research - or better still - go there more often !

It really isn't a track car by most track drivers' standards. But as road car to destroy any other road going car with ease and without the need of any skill/finesse, it's quite superb. Each to their own though.

Yes the GTR is overrated and is just a 'point and squirt' motor. Ok

And the 'ring is not a 'typical' track? What has that got to do with it? It's a benchmark that almost all manufacturers use - and speaking of benchmarks, the GTR set one or two around it. Much to Porcshe et al's displeasure.

There room in the world for more than one type of car and the GTR has had MASSIVE success as a track / race car. Your points are based on the usual inexperienced line of thinking - and can (but rarely is) be applied to most modern supercars. I.e: too heavy, too much technology.

No it's just based on experience of the car in question in both environments - I am not sure you have driven the Ring much - so to answer your question of what it has to do with it : it certainly is NOT used to set up track or race cars, thankfully - it's used to set up road cars and can be very useful for that job. Ask anyone in motorsport or in the TD business and they'll confirm it's NOT a typical race track, because of its unique topography, ondulations, bumps, length, etc etc - well it was when I was last there anyway 3 weeks ago. You also seem to think that what works at the Ring will work on conventional tracks : try a GTR at Cadwell P. and see how it likes it.

You have to put it in the context of 2 totally different environments : track and road. What works in one rarely works in the other. The GTR is essentially a road car. A Caterham or an Elise are essentially track cars, see the main difference here ?

Hence me stating that the GTR is defo not at home on track. But that's not a judgement of value as it is a fantastic accomplishment of a car, as I have said.

I am not aware of any GTR's racing success in a form that has anything to do with the road going version we are talking about here - not sure what your refer to. I hope you don't mean the 1300kgs RWD GT3 GTR, because that would also make the Bentley Continental a track car ! ;-)

Edited by nickfrog on Friday 13th November 01:57

[LDN]

I've driven GTR on track; have you? I can't quite establish if you have or not; so it's not rhetorical. I've driven single seaters; all the way down to formula vee; I'd happily say that a weedy single seater is more fun on track than a GTR. But that was never my point... if a GTR can beat / match track focused Porsche's, Ferraris, Lambos, is it still just a 'point and squirt road car'?? According to you it is!! If it is; then either, these other super cars are really just a load of ol' ste - and they should all go back to the drawing board; or the GTR is in fact; as at home on a track as it is on road...

[nickfrog]

Yep driven a GTR at Bedford GT and on the road. x3 moderate laps at 8/10ths and cooked the pads. But the same usually happens to many other road going supercars that the GTR can "beat", not that I understand what that means as surely you can't race on a track day. Really not a track car.

Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 14th November 13:57

[LDN]

nickfrog said:

Yep driven a GTR at Bedford GT and on the road. x3 moderate laps at 8/10ths and cooked the pads. But the same usually happens to many other road going supercars that the GTR can "beat", not that I understand what that means as surely you can't race on a track day. Really not a track car.

Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 14th November 13:57

Ok fella. If you say so.

[Cmann]

I feel honour bound to side with the M4. It's such a meaty car car and its easy on the eye. The one thing I would say is that the stock exhaust sounds better on the GTR, getting an akrapovic system installed quickly sorts out that problem.

http://mulgari.com/projects/mulgari-bmw-f80-m3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92q7Z0SMHq4

[BORN2bWILD]

nickfrog said:

Yep driven a GTR at Bedford GT and on the road. x3 moderate laps at 8/10ths and cooked the pads. But the same usually happens to many other road going supercars that the GTR can "beat", not that I understand what that means as surely you can't race on a track day. Really not a track car.

Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 14th November 13:57

Ok, I get you do not like/appreciate the GT-R, but to refuse to accept the facts and go on about it not being a track car when clearly it is seems rediculous to me.
Wasn't it the GT-R that stuck to corners so well the G force put Mr J Clarkson in hospital as it put his back out?
The pro drivers at the top gear track also told me it was the fastest car they had for that circuit and nothing else they had there could match it's lap times.
And for some reason you do not consider 'The Ring' as a proper test either... words fail me on that one.

[sealtt]

Having seen both of these in the flesh in the past week or two the biggest difference I noticed was that sitting inside the GTR you feel like you are in a proper high-performance car, it already gets the heart beating - same way as exotics do. Not to say it's a high quality cabin, but no doubt about it, you are in a PROPER performance car. M4 felt like any other 3 series, not a sense of occasion whatsoever. Pretty low quality too, not worse than the GTR, just my expectations were higher given it's a 'BMW'. Though I guess even highly spec'd brand new M6s aren't very special inside, so I should've guessed. The funny thing being that this is all whilst Merc are knocking out some of the best (if not THE best) cabins in the industry - go take a look at a new well spec'd S-Class saloon / coupe if you have any doubt about that!

[LDN]

BORN2bWILD said:

nickfrog said:

Yep driven a GTR at Bedford GT and on the road. x3 moderate laps at 8/10ths and cooked the pads. But the same usually happens to many other road going supercars that the GTR can "beat", not that I understand what that means as surely you can't race on a track day. Really not a track car.

Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 14th November 13:57

Ok, I get you do not like/appreciate the GT-R, but to refuse to accept the facts and go on about it not being a track car when clearly it is seems rediculous to me.
Wasn't it the GT-R that stuck to corners so well the G force put Mr J Clarkson in hospital as it put his back out?
The pro drivers at the top gear track also told me it was the fastest car they had for that circuit and nothing else they had there could match it's lap times.
And for some reason you do not consider 'The Ring' as a proper test either... words fail me on that one.

In all my years on PH; one rule I've learnt is... don't feed the troll. Or indeed, the blinkered. The fact that a GTR would show him its rear end lap after lap still makes it a useless track car. Apparently. The Internet! Whatca gonna do!

[david hockney]

I love the GTR and always have done..............but when I see one on the road I can't help but assume the driver is a yob who won the money on a scratchcard and still lives in rented accommodation.
I understand that this is a completely irrational assumption.

[thecremeegg]

GTR for me all day long - that thing is a weapon

[BORN2bWILD]

david hockney said:

I love the GTR and always have done..............but when I see one on the road I can't help but assume the driver is a yob who won the money on a scratchcard and still lives in rented accommodation.
I understand that this is a completely irrational assumption.

As you say.... completely irrational.
I narrowed my search down to 3 cars, Audi R8, Ferrari 360 or GT-R.
I bought my uprated 600bhp GT-R a year ago and certainly made the right decision.
I thought the GT-R was more understated and not a 'I'm a rich dick' sort of motor, yet it is much faster than the others and great value for money.

[popeyewhite]

GTR by miles. Odd comparison, GTR is so much better I thought there'd be a catch somewhere.

[xjay1337]

For times the GTR.
But to live with, the M4.
I've been lucky enough to be very close to both (I have detailed both) and prefer the general feel of the GTR interior in terms of it being "small" and tight.

That being said, to live with day to day, I would rather have the M4, and I'd rather hoon around the M4.
Also I have a few friends who have/have owned GTR's and they've had no end of gearbox related issues. One guy had his car in Nissan for 3 months out of a 5 month period going back and forth with faulty gearbox issues.
The week he got it back, he took me and a mate out. The first attempt at launch control "GEARBOX FAULT - OVERHEAT" and speed limited to 3mph for about 20 seconds.

I don't think the GTR will be a future classic, certainly not in the same way that the R34 GTR V-Spec is, then again I don't think the F80 series 3/4 M packages will be either.

[RossP]

If you want a proper gearbox (manual) has to be the M4

[andysgriff]

Both great cars, just that ones more exclusive than the other

[Hilts]

Colours chosen by R. Charles Esq.

[RossP]

andysgriff said:

Both great cars, just that ones more exclusive than the other

Correct!

2,908 Nissan GT-Rs and 3,125 M4s so not a deal in it!

Only 125 manual M4s, so that's by far the most exclusive

[andysgriff]

RossP said:

Correct!

2,908 Nissan GT-Rs and 3,125 M4s so not a deal in it!

Only 125 manual M4s, so that's by far the most exclusive

Glad you agree