RE: Shaddap you face: PH Blog

[Captain Muppet]

mwstewart said:

Captain Muppet said:

I agree that nothing is more real than the natural sound of mechanically generated pulses as modified by a carefully tuned system of electronically controlled pipes, baffles, valves and resonators and heard at a selection of predefined points inside an enclosure of selectively soundproofed panels through a number of tuned ports.

However to some people this is just as artificial as using a speaker.

I hear the Royal Philharmonic are switching to synthesizers.

Niche. Most popular music is heavily modified edits of digital recordings of noises. Even the vocals.

[mwstewart]

Captain Muppet said:

mwstewart said:

Captain Muppet said:

I agree that nothing is more real than the natural sound of mechanically generated pulses as modified by a carefully tuned system of electronically controlled pipes, baffles, valves and resonators and heard at a selection of predefined points inside an enclosure of selectively soundproofed panels through a number of tuned ports.

However to some people this is just as artificial as using a speaker.

I hear the Royal Philharmonic are switching to synthesizers.

Niche. Most popular music is heavily modified edits of digital recordings of noises. Even the vocals.

Sure, but so are we are enthusiasts. In the case of the BMW I think the synthetic element is pretty much superfluous.

[TommoAE86]

Guvernator said:

Max_Torque said:

And yet the defining feature of both of those cars isn't the engine sounds, It's the marked lack of sound proofing and poor NVH. The turbo on the M3/M4is making just the same sounds as on those cars (in fact, more sound, because it's working harder) you just can't hear it.

So, if you'd like to spend £60k on a M3/M4 with lousy cabin NVH, be my guest, but i'd rather be able to hear the radio (Radio2 natch) as i trundle along our crowded road network.......

The Noble you'd probably have a point as it's effectively a kit car but there wasn't anything lousy about the NVH in the Skyline IMO. It might not have had the soft touch plastics of the Germans but it was a damn site better put together than a lot of modern cars. I also get that some people want to be totally isolated from the outside world when sat in a car, me personally I like to hear a little bit of what's going on under the bonnet and feel you can have decent NVH and still be able to hear an engine sing. I guess as with anything that's a subjective fine line.

I'm in the same camp as Guvernator, although I have an RB25DET instead of the RB26 it's an amazing noise and I love hearing everything along with my music. Also I can vouch for my 21 year old Skyline being much better screwed together than all the BMW's I've been driven a decent distance in. I have experienced the other side of NVH owning a Jag which meant you could hear nothing from outside the cars mechanicals, I got rid of it at the earliest opportunity.

[RossP]

I suppose I should have a go at this as I suggested it...

Might wait till it stops raining!

[Shambler]

Maybe if you had smaller ears it wouldn't be so much of a problem.

[kingofdbrits]

I've just been playing around with coding the ASD on my 335d, much easier to use a laptop to turn off the noise than pull your boot to pieces.
I started with the M5/6 file and you get what i describe as a gentle V8 grumble at low revs that does build with revs, but i can only rev to 5.5k so don't get the top end noise. I don't think its very intrusive and does add to the driving experience.
Cropped clip from my dash cam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ0fjMVGmyI&fe...

The M3/4 sound file is a different story, god damn it's loud!! Not sure i could live with it and can see why you'd want it turned off!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUGYNMDUbIA

[Mr2Mike]

Max_Torque said:

Because of course, the problem is they are just "lazy". (The std internet response of someone who has no idea what they are talking about).

Go on, have a guess: How many people do you think BMW (for example) employs in it's NVH department?

Clearly it's not laziness per se, just as using eletronic indicator stalks isn't laziness, but both are thoroughly pointless applications of technology.

Why don't Mercedes feel the need to feed processed engine noises through their audio system? Do they have minimal sound proofing and consequently terrible NVH?

Sir_Dave said:

My neighbour has one of these, quite possibly the worst cold start noise ever!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdQJdnaERgo

Sounds like a lawnmower from outside, assume the speakers make it sound like an e92 M3 on the inside

Christ almighty that sounds appalling. I'd be embarrassed to start that up in a quiet residential area.

[PHMatt]

I think it's better for the real noise to be sent into the cabin.
I love the sound of a nice engine/exhaust but not at silly o'clock in the morning at 8k rpm.

I think if you don't like this new and growing technology you can blame noisy anti social chavs in 1.2'S and 5" exhausts.

[ORD]

It's not real noise. It would still be naff it was, but it isn't.

[Strider]

It seems a lot more subtle in the M5, in-keeping with its character; not what I'd choose, but not a big problem. But it really would put me off buying an M4. On track, the noise was thunderous, but not in a good way. On the road, it was as comical as the active seat bolsters in the XF that squeeze your sides on every low-speed suburban corner, just to remind you what a fancy car you are driving.

[rosino]

ratty6464 said:

Totally agree with you Dan. BMW loaned me an M4 convertible with M performance exhaust for 24 hours recently. With the roof up and in M mode, the booming resonance from the speakers gave me a cracking headache. it sounded much better in normal mode with the roof down so you could actually hear the exhaust and no fake sound.

I'm going to check for that fuse in my 4 series as i'm sure it's pumping out fake noise through the HK stereo...

Very interested to hear your first hand experience with the MP Exhaust. Does it add the much needed drama to the car???

[V8A*ndy]

rosino said:

ratty6464 said:

Totally agree with you Dan. BMW loaned me an M4 convertible with M performance exhaust for 24 hours recently. With the roof up and in M mode, the booming resonance from the speakers gave me a cracking headache. it sounded much better in normal mode with the roof down so you could actually hear the exhaust and no fake sound.

I'm going to check for that fuse in my 4 series as i'm sure it's pumping out fake noise through the HK stereo...

Very interested to hear your first hand experience with the MP Exhaust. Does it add the much needed drama to the car???

I have spent some time with an M4 with the Performance exhaust. It certainly should have been standard fitment.

Also the "fake" noise issue. I'm a sound engineer and part of the problem is that there is a fair bit of latency and phasing issues going on that makes it sound so wrong.

Dan's right, once you notice it you hate it and can't escape it. Having said that they did an ok job in what they tried to do and a fair few peeps wouldn't even notice.

[Guvernator]

V8A*ndy said:

I have spent some time with an M4 with the Performance exhaust. It certainly should have been standard fitment.

Also the "fake" noise issue. I'm a sound engineer and part of the problem is that there is a fair bit of latency and phasing issues going on that makes it sound so wrong.

Dan's right, once you notice it you hate it and can't escape it. Having said that they did an ok job in what they tried to do and a fair few peeps wouldn't even notice.

The problem is I noticed something was "off" within about 30 seconds of starting to drive and trust me, I'm no audiophile. If they had to do it, I think they could have done a better job. I am sure they had whole ream of sound engineers do a thorough job on it but it still doesn't sound right, perhaps they should have hired you

On another note why they felt the need to try to disguise the sound of the straight six TT with the piped in noise of V8 I don't know. Are they embarrassed by the fact they've had to downsize from a V8? Did the marketing men think that the punters would be put off if they thought the newer car had a smaller engine than the old one?

[981C]

Guvernator said:

The problem is I noticed something was "off" within about 30 seconds of starting to drive and trust me, I'm no audiophile. If they had to do it, I think they could have done a better job. I am sure they had whole ream of sound engineers do a thorough job on it but it still doesn't sound right, perhaps they should have hired you

On another note why they felt the need to try to disguise the sound of the straight six TT with the piped in noise of V8 I don't know. Are they embarrassed by the fact they've had to downsize from a V8? Did the marketing men think that the punters would be put off if they thought the newer car had a smaller engine than the old one?

I fear it's only going to get worse...

...2019 BMW M4, now THX Certified... :-)

[Tony B2]

I agree - I simply hate the synthesised noise (I use the word noise advisedly), and on its own it is enough to put me off the car. The lawnmower noise on cold start-up doesn't help either.

After a few hours of driving the M4 on the Nordschleife I needed painkillers for my headache.

And I am reliably informed that the noise through the speakers is entirely synthetic - it is not processing/enhancing (!) actual engine noise, it is created based on a map, taking into account revs/throttle opening.

I would definitely be interested to hear the "pure" engine noise.

My E92 sounds sublime, by the way....

[carl_w]

Sir_Dave said:

My neighbour has one of these, quite possibly the worst cold start noise ever!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdQJdnaERgo

Sounds like a lawnmower from outside, assume the speakers make it sound like an e92 M3 on the inside

Sounds like it has a loose baffle or heatshield IMHO.

[carl_w]

kingofdbrits said:

I've just been playing around with coding the ASD on my 335d, much easier to use a laptop to turn off the noise than pull your boot to pieces.

I'd love some details/links on how to do this.

[kingofdbrits]

carl_w said:

kingofdbrits said:

I've just been playing around with coding the ASD on my 335d, much easier to use a laptop to turn off the noise than pull your boot to pieces.

I'd love some details/links on how to do this.

You have PM.

[Kolbenkopp]

Anecdotal, but on topic: Peter Schutz had the engineers play with that at Porsche in the 80es. The guy didn't like his 928 so quiet. All analogue system of course, strategically placed mike in the engine bay picked up the V8 sound to mix it back into the Hi-Fi system.

A lot of snickering at that from engineering. They all thought he was bat st crazy .

[ORD]

Why not just remove some sound deadening?