RE: Sergeant Allan Thomson: PH Meets
Discussion
MrBarry123 said:
It's not a fair comparison to mainland UK though because the mix of people, I imagine, are entirely different i.e. more nice people who care about their existing way of life and less t
ts. If you introduced a similar approach in the UK, you would have people driving like fking idiots within 5-10 minutes and they'd continue to do so until they hit a wall.
I think a lot of people living and driving in rural areas perceive nsl as unlimited as it stands. Introducing a more pragmatic approach to speeding on these roads probably wouldn't change anything. ts. If you introduced a similar approach in the UK, you would have people driving like fking idiots within 5-10 minutes and they'd continue to do so until they hit a wall.unsprung said:
There is something to context and culture, isn't there.
In Europe, on the Continent, there is that classical comparison of high-trust cultures vs low-trust cultures -- which runs roughly north to south, respectively. The issue of trust being a public good which is either present and socially enforced, or absent and individually exploited.
In the US, you might be able to have lax enforcement in parts of, say, Wisconsin, Minnesota, or Montana. But if you would attempt this anywhere near places like New York City, Miami or Los Angeles... the result would resemble a classical "tragedy of the commons" -- a scene from Mad Max or Carmageddon.
The level of anonymity is the key. The locals all know each other and more importantly who the parents are and visitors can't leave the area quickly. Go to a city where neighbours don't even know each other and there are no restrictions on coming and going and as you say, a civilised set of rules cannot work the same. But what we do see is the growth of official remote camera monitoring and the growing threat of individuals videoing behaviour as a way of replicating the smaller community's ability to police. In Europe, on the Continent, there is that classical comparison of high-trust cultures vs low-trust cultures -- which runs roughly north to south, respectively. The issue of trust being a public good which is either present and socially enforced, or absent and individually exploited.
In the US, you might be able to have lax enforcement in parts of, say, Wisconsin, Minnesota, or Montana. But if you would attempt this anywhere near places like New York City, Miami or Los Angeles... the result would resemble a classical "tragedy of the commons" -- a scene from Mad Max or Carmageddon.
Zombie said:
unsprung said:
There is something to context and culture, isn't there.
In Europe, on the Continent, there is that classical comparison of high-trust cultures vs low-trust cultures -- which runs roughly north to south, respectively. The issue of trust being a public good which is either present and socially enforced, or absent and individually exploited.
In the US, you might be able to have lax enforcement in parts of, say, Wisconsin, Minnesota, or Montana. But if you would attempt this anywhere near places like New York City, Miami or Los Angeles... the result would resemble a classical "tragedy of the commons" -- a scene from Mad Max or Carmageddon.
I was with you all the way up to "context"... In Europe, on the Continent, there is that classical comparison of high-trust cultures vs low-trust cultures -- which runs roughly north to south, respectively. The issue of trust being a public good which is either present and socially enforced, or absent and individually exploited.
In the US, you might be able to have lax enforcement in parts of, say, Wisconsin, Minnesota, or Montana. But if you would attempt this anywhere near places like New York City, Miami or Los Angeles... the result would resemble a classical "tragedy of the commons" -- a scene from Mad Max or Carmageddon.
DonkeyApple said:
The level of anonymity is the key. The locals all know each other and more importantly who the parents are and visitors can't leave the area quickly. Go to a city where neighbours don't even know each other and there are no restrictions on coming and going and as you say, a civilised set of rules cannot work the same. But what we do see is the growth of official remote camera monitoring and the growing threat of individuals videoing behaviour as a way of replicating the smaller community's ability to police.
Very interesting, your observations about official CCTV and the "unofficial" -- crowdsourced, if you will -- media of countless citizens and their smartphones and dashcams, etc. Have we begun to understand the implications of the latter? Probably not. Will be very interesting.And... Spot on, regarding anonymity. Knowing the others to some extent -- and being known, yourself -- is a sort of social glue that encourages individuals to think of others (even if, selfishly, this is only as an extension of the self and one's own social "currency").
Go to a small-ish traditional town of, say, 10,000 people in the northeast US. Then go to a town with a similar population in Arizona or Florida. In the latter two locations, if the towns are newer and designed resoundingly around the automobile (as many there are), you are likely to find a different atmosphere in terms of community.
In those locations, it's possible to know fewer of your neighbors. Streets will be wider, even like boulevards. Streets will flow more smoothly into large highways and interstate motorways. Large setbacks with large-scale commercial enterprises will create disincentives for pedestrians as well as the experiential and serendipitous moments of being around people.
In this case, the community belongs not only to people who live there, but to others who easily arrive and exit with relatively distant destinations on their itineraries. In these newfangled towns, there can be much less of the social glue that gives people pause.
However, one delightful counterbalance to this is the US penchant for local civic associations as well as local governance (including the right to levy local taxes). These things create incentives for people to get to know each other and maintain community.
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