One car fits all, or comfy cruiser and sunny day weapon?
Discussion
ORD said:
This is the kind of thinking that I dont get. An E90 M3 is better at almost everything than a 520d (the main exception being mpg), and it is a better driver's car than a Z4M.
If I had both and wanted to take one out for fun at the weekend it would be the z4m not the e90 M3. Very composed but not as exciting or as fun, great daily driver if you need the space though.Headroom was particularly lacking. My sons and I are all quite long in the back and short in the leg, and my elder son reported he found plenty of legroom in the Elise but his head wedged against the roof - and that getting out could only be done head-first, crawling out on all fours, thanks to a high and wide sill. We're none of us stick insects, certainly, but son isn't fat either.
RoverP6B said:
Headroom was particularly lacking. My sons and I are all quite long in the back and short in the leg, and my elder son reported he found plenty of legroom in the Elise but his head wedged against the roof - and that getting out could only be done head-first, crawling out on all fours, thanks to a high and wide sill. We're none of us stick insects, certainly, but son isn't fat either.
I cannot believe someone 5ft 8 would be lacking headroom regardless of proportions in an elise! Pic pls! Does he have 1ft legs?
RoverP6B said:
Headroom was particularly lacking. My sons and I are all quite long in the back and short in the leg, and my elder son reported he found plenty of legroom in the Elise but his head wedged against the roof - and that getting out could only be done head-first, crawling out on all fours, thanks to a high and wide sill. We're none of us stick insects, certainly, but son isn't fat either.
Curious, thanks, I was interested. I've not heard of head room issues before. If it helps for others reading this thread, I'm a long legged 5'10" (opposite ape index to you and your sons) and hopped in and out just fine with both hands holding my work laptop etc. The only issues I had were road noise on the motorway and capacity for big stuff like bikes, but that's similar to many two seater sports cars of course.RobM77 said:
Curious, thanks, I was interested. I've not heard of head room issues before. If it helps for others reading this thread, I'm a long legged 5'10" (opposite ape index to you and your sons) and hopped in and out just fine with both hands holding my work laptop etc. The only issues I had were road noise on the motorway and capacity for big stuff like bikes, but that's similar to many two seater sports cars of course.
Road noise not an issue for me, just throw some headphones (noise cancelling) in my ears with no music on (or music if you like)johnwilliams77 said:
RobM77 said:
Curious, thanks, I was interested. I've not heard of head room issues before. If it helps for others reading this thread, I'm a long legged 5'10" (opposite ape index to you and your sons) and hopped in and out just fine with both hands holding my work laptop etc. The only issues I had were road noise on the motorway and capacity for big stuff like bikes, but that's similar to many two seater sports cars of course.
Road noise not an issue for me, just throw some headphones (noise cancelling) in my ears with no music on (or music if you like)
Sadly I got my first pair of those after I'd sold the Elise (now on my third - aren't they brilliant?), but I suspect they'd have made a big difference. Needless to say, the road noise only grated on me on long motorway journeys. I was very happy in my Elise as a daily driver for three years, and as a regularly used second car for the other five years I owned it.ORD said:
cerb4.5lee said:
The E92 M3 is the perfect jack of all trades and master of none, its not special enough to be a weekender and too compromised to be a fun car so it leaves it in no mans land.
I used to run a 520d and a Cerbera as a weekend car and then the 520d and a Z4M as a weekend car but swapped the two for the E92 M3 as my do it all car...no such thing sadly, the reasonable daily and nice weekend car works far better as far as I am concerned.
This is the kind of thinking that I dont get. An E90 M3 is better at almost everything than a 520d (the main exception being mpg), and it is a better driver's car than a Z4M. It is also probably a better steer than a Cerbera (once you account for having to take the 520d when the TVR isnt working).I used to run a 520d and a Cerbera as a weekend car and then the 520d and a Z4M as a weekend car but swapped the two for the E92 M3 as my do it all car...no such thing sadly, the reasonable daily and nice weekend car works far better as far as I am concerned.
I agree the M3 is arguably the most competent out of the three but competence ultimately leads to boredom and when you use a M3 everyday it just becomes a normal 3 series which is a decent enough car but its not something that gets the heart racing.
If for example you had all three in the garage and its a nice dry sunny sunday you wouldn't be itching to take the M3 out and it would be fine to nip around the block in but it wouldn't get the juices flowing/give the thrills on a back road blast like the other two would.
For overall thrills/reward the TVR batters both of them.
walm said:
6ft reasonably portly Elise/Exige daily for 2 years here.
But I don't wear a suit to work and didn't mind getting a little wet or waiting 20 mins for it to demist or not being able to see out the back or out the side at junctions. YMMV.
6'3" here and never had a problem size wise in any Elise/Exige I owned.But I don't wear a suit to work and didn't mind getting a little wet or waiting 20 mins for it to demist or not being able to see out the back or out the side at junctions. YMMV.
However, cannot agree that it makes for a one cars fits all solution at all without making fairly large compromises. But as I said earlier in the thread, it's all about where you are happy to sit on a compromise scale. It's less compromised than an Atom, or a motorbike. Still too raw for the benefits of the drive outweighing its practicalities daily for me, but its a subjective (and emotive) subject. I never ran an Elise/Exige as a daily and would have soon lost the shine on any of them if I had been forced to do so. Others can put up with it. Fair play to them but I'd rather be in something less compromised when I just need to travel somewhere rather than to drive somewhere.
krismccloy said:
From 19-23 (Now 24), I have always had x2 cars, Albeit not particularly interesting ones to a lot of readers here.
Attending track, commuting to work and trying to keep the 'special' car in good condition despite our corrosive winters has always ended up equaling two cars in my circumstances.
I think driving a slightly lesser car on a daily basis really makes the 2nd car feel like an event when driven, In my price range at least.
Back on topic: If I had to choose a sub 20-30k car as an all rounder I think I would be looking at the Megane RS275 or 2015 Civic Type R (In black or grey) maybe a Golf R depending on how mundane it felt since I've never had any experience with one. Fun, Fast, Relatively low maintenance, Modern, spacious, safe and would provide some circuit thrills.
You are spot on with that second point.Attending track, commuting to work and trying to keep the 'special' car in good condition despite our corrosive winters has always ended up equaling two cars in my circumstances.
I think driving a slightly lesser car on a daily basis really makes the 2nd car feel like an event when driven, In my price range at least.
Back on topic: If I had to choose a sub 20-30k car as an all rounder I think I would be looking at the Megane RS275 or 2015 Civic Type R (In black or grey) maybe a Golf R depending on how mundane it felt since I've never had any experience with one. Fun, Fast, Relatively low maintenance, Modern, spacious, safe and would provide some circuit thrills.
If you drive something boring for the week (My PT Cruiser) and then jump in the fun car on the weekend ( My MR2 ) It feels more special , and like you say more of an Event!
It also means the time spent driving the nicer car is used on nice days with the intention of enjoying it , rather than being in traffic on the way to work!
FIREBIRDC9 said:
johnwilliams77 said:
I cannot believe someone 5ft 8 would be lacking headroom regardless of proportions in an elise! Pic pls!
Does he have 1ft legs?
I also find this difficult to comprehend.Does he have 1ft legs?
I am 6ft 1 , i went to Le Mans in an Elise S1 Type 49 Headroom was fine!
Previously had an S1 Elise and did Le Mans in that too no bother.
Headroom was never an issue, and I carry the a higher proportion than many in my upper half.
RoverP6B said:
The sixes and V8s are very different in character, a straight six with a manual is a car that begs to be thrashed. I lost the ability to fit in an Elise about 25 years before the Elise went on sale - it's a hopelessly impractical car for the vast majority of people, certainly not a "one car fits all" by any stretch of the imagination. I suggest also that the "weekend blast" is a figment of the imagination of most petrolheads - I can't recall in which decade I last had time for that sort of aimless, destinationless motoring. GTs, sports saloons/estates and hot hatches (as much as I hate the latter) are of far more relevance to this discussion.
It is no way a figment of the imagination, there are many petrol heads who are driving enthusiast. It is their pastime just like someone may spend a few hours watching football, fishing etc. I don’t see why a drive to some nice empty roads seems such an unrealistic concept of a hobby.I regularly see ‘packs’ of other enthusiasts in drivers cars when I venture into Wales. This phenomenon must the same in other areas known for drivers roads too.
What’s the point in having a driver’s car if you are only going to commute in it?
Tickle said:
It is no way a figment of the imagination, there are many petrol heads who are driving enthusiast. It is their pastime just like someone may spend a few hours watching football, fishing etc. I don’t see why a drive to some nice empty roads seems such an unrealistic concept of a hobby.
I regularly see ‘packs’ of other enthusiasts in drivers cars when I venture into Wales. This phenomenon must the same in other areas known for drivers roads too.
What’s the point in having a driver’s car if you are only going to commute in it?
I'd consider myself a die in the wool petrolhead. When I was single I would go to car meets, spend hours working on the car, go to Santa Pod or trackdays or go for a drive for hours, just for the hell of it. I'd also spend far too much of my disposable income on cars. Then I met the OH, got married and had a daughter and my time to spend on car stuff has literally been reduced to almost zero because my family is more important to me then cars. I regularly see ‘packs’ of other enthusiasts in drivers cars when I venture into Wales. This phenomenon must the same in other areas known for drivers roads too.
What’s the point in having a driver’s car if you are only going to commute in it?
I applaud petrolheads who resolutely manage to stick to their passion but I can easily see how you can go from spending all your time and money indulging your car passion to almost none. I at least try to keep it somewhat alive by making sure my family car is semi interesting but even that is a compromise as no family saloon, no matter how fast is going to give you the same special feeling as flinging a proper sports car down a B road or track, especially the new "user friendly" sports saloons they are churning out these days. The fact that I spend most of my time driving around like Miss Daisy's driver due to having the family in tow also doesn't help. It doesn't matter what car you are in, driving around at 30mph is just as boring in an M\AMG\RS as it is in any other car.
Guvernator said:
I'd consider myself a die in the wool petrolhead. When I was single I would go to car meets, spend hours working on the car, go to Santa Pod or trackdays or go for a drive for hours, just for the hell of it. I'd also spend far too much of my disposable income on cars. Then I met the OH, got married and had a daughter and my time to spend on car stuff has literally been reduced to almost zero because my family is more important to me then cars.
I applaud petrolheads who resolutely manage to stick to their passion but I can easily see how you can go from spending all your time and money indulging your car passion to almost none. I at least try to keep it somewhat alive by making sure my family car is semi interesting but even that is a compromise as no family saloon, no matter how fast is going to give you the same special feeling as flinging a proper sports car down a B road or track, especially the new "user friendly" sports saloons they are churning out these days. The fact that I spend most of my time driving around like Miss Daisy's driver due to having the family in tow also doesn't help. It doesn't matter what car you are in, driving around at 30mph is just as boring in an M\AMG\RS as it is in any other car.
This has been one of the most interesting threads I've read on here recently. Speaking personally, having read the thread and given a lot of thought into my own circumstances, I have to say that my weekend drives are now very rare in comparison to a number of years ago, but mine isn't because I have a family or anything like that, but is simply financial. I can afford to run ONE reasonably nice car, but I cannot afford to spend hours every weekend driving it fast, because petrol is very expensive. Track days are very expensive. Consumables aren't cheap. I'm not exactly your typical "director" PH member, I'm just an ordinary bloke on an ordinary wage who happens to like cars. I have another hobby which isn't as expensive but competes for my money and that is a lot less draining financially in the long run too.I applaud petrolheads who resolutely manage to stick to their passion but I can easily see how you can go from spending all your time and money indulging your car passion to almost none. I at least try to keep it somewhat alive by making sure my family car is semi interesting but even that is a compromise as no family saloon, no matter how fast is going to give you the same special feeling as flinging a proper sports car down a B road or track, especially the new "user friendly" sports saloons they are churning out these days. The fact that I spend most of my time driving around like Miss Daisy's driver due to having the family in tow also doesn't help. It doesn't matter what car you are in, driving around at 30mph is just as boring in an M\AMG\RS as it is in any other car.
I was all for getting a new car next year, but having thought about this now, I'm not sure. My current car (FN2 CTR) is a great all rounder for me. Practical when it needs to be. Fun when it needs to be. Not too expensive to run (incredible reliability, as with most Hondas). Not worth much and I don't care where it gets left. Plenty fast enough for any road-based scenario. Sometimes I do get bored of it, but I have to say on those rare opportunities I get to stretch its legs I really do still enjoy it, I think day to day its easy to forget its a different animal when you really want it to be. Given that I rarely ever go out for the hell of it anymore, having a fun car I'd rarely ever use and a dull car to go to work in (because thats likely all I could afford) doesn't seem to make sense.
Very interesting topic. What interests me is if you go down the 2-car route, how much of your budget do you attribute to each vehicle? 50/50. A more expensive daily and a cheap fun car or a shed daily and an expensive fun car?
I have tried lots of different approaches and come to the conclusion that a 2-car solution (if possible) probably works best, although I only run one myself currently due to lack of space/budget. Also, if you're making payments on a vehicle, then you probably don't want to be making payments or have cash to spend on a 2nd vehicle.
As an only car, my first decent one was a 205 GTi. Great fun and fairly economical and practical but not great on a long, motorway journey and old car problems i.e. crap heater etc.
I then went through a 3 year phase where I had company cars and a fun/weekend car. Company cars were mainly diesels (Golfs mostly) and my fun/weekend cars were a new MX5 (lovely but didn't use it enough to justify the expense) and then an E30 325i Cab and a Corrado VR6 that I bought cash and worked for me much better. The "fun" cars were certainly more "fun" and because they were only used at the weekend there was more of a sense of occasion to driving them. Equally, they would have all worked as DDs (maybe I would have enjoyed the MX5 more if it had been my daily) but honestly, the company Golfs were very comfortable, economical and more than quick enough for everyday duties, so I don't think that I would have used my own cars day-to-day over the company ones.
Had a few "white goods" cars next (mk4 Golf, new Polo etc), which didn't really do much for me and then a "Blobeye" Impreza WRX Wagon. A great "do it all" car and I guess these older rally/race reps (Impreza, Integrale, Sierra/Escort Cosworths, E30 M3, 190E Cosworth) being quick and quite light still were pretty great "one car fits all cars" in their day. Today, something like the RS Megane Cup, Fiesta ST or M135i possibly?
This was passed on to my wife when we had our first child to replace her Fiat 500 and I had a sheddy C-Class diesel estate, then when she was pregnant with child number two, we got a Jeep Grand Cherokee as she wanted more space. This was an unreliable disaster, so eventually made way for something smaller but new and reliable!
The C-Class expired and was replaced with a small 2004 hatchback and then I upgraded to what I have now (2013 Honda Civic) last year.
To be honest, it's not my perfect car but in a way it is. With respect to our household car budget, it is more important that we have a safe, reliable and fit-for-purpose family car (my wife's) than I have a sports car! I don't do a massive mileage, so don't need a diesel but I do use my car a lot for work every day, so want something that'll return around 40mpg (it'll do 50mpg on a run) I often have to transport equipment and sometimes people, so having more than 2 doors is useful and I need to have the ability to pick my children up from nursery/day care/school sometimes, so 4+ seats too. I also have to go to the city (3 hours each way) about once per month, so a bit of comfort and refinement (heated seats, climate, cruise etc) is desirable but I don't need a big car. I could probably make do with a Fiesta but my work regularly takes me off-tarmac to job sites, so the longer wheelbase and smoother ride is desirable and actually, the hot version (Type-R) would probably be worse for me, as worse ride, lower ground clearance, so more likely to rip off splitters/exhausts and bend wheels/pick up punctures etc.
In my current role, I don't really see me needing/wanting anything nicer, as it would get ruined, so I expect it will get replaced with another mid-range small family hatch (Mazda 3/Focus/Golf etc) when the time comes! I guess an SUV might be ideal but I'm not a massive fan of the small SUVs like the CRV/RAV4 and the ones I like (Discovery/X5/G-Class/Range Rover etc) are all far bigger than I need and would cost much more to run than what I have at the moment. Of the smaller SUVs, I do quite like the look of the Jeep Renegade and VW Tiguan though!
If I were ever to get a 2nd car, my childhood dream cars this side of a Ferrari/Aston Martin were the Toyota Supra TT and Nissan 300ZX TT but whether they justify their price tags when newer and arguably quicker/better metal is available for the same price, I don't know. Probably something RWD, 2+2 and coupe/convertible anyway! Monaro? An Elise or TVR certainly has appeal but pointless for me at the moment, as they would never get used. Something that's special but I can still take my family out in for the day or away for the weekend in makes much more sense!
I have tried lots of different approaches and come to the conclusion that a 2-car solution (if possible) probably works best, although I only run one myself currently due to lack of space/budget. Also, if you're making payments on a vehicle, then you probably don't want to be making payments or have cash to spend on a 2nd vehicle.
As an only car, my first decent one was a 205 GTi. Great fun and fairly economical and practical but not great on a long, motorway journey and old car problems i.e. crap heater etc.
I then went through a 3 year phase where I had company cars and a fun/weekend car. Company cars were mainly diesels (Golfs mostly) and my fun/weekend cars were a new MX5 (lovely but didn't use it enough to justify the expense) and then an E30 325i Cab and a Corrado VR6 that I bought cash and worked for me much better. The "fun" cars were certainly more "fun" and because they were only used at the weekend there was more of a sense of occasion to driving them. Equally, they would have all worked as DDs (maybe I would have enjoyed the MX5 more if it had been my daily) but honestly, the company Golfs were very comfortable, economical and more than quick enough for everyday duties, so I don't think that I would have used my own cars day-to-day over the company ones.
Had a few "white goods" cars next (mk4 Golf, new Polo etc), which didn't really do much for me and then a "Blobeye" Impreza WRX Wagon. A great "do it all" car and I guess these older rally/race reps (Impreza, Integrale, Sierra/Escort Cosworths, E30 M3, 190E Cosworth) being quick and quite light still were pretty great "one car fits all cars" in their day. Today, something like the RS Megane Cup, Fiesta ST or M135i possibly?
This was passed on to my wife when we had our first child to replace her Fiat 500 and I had a sheddy C-Class diesel estate, then when she was pregnant with child number two, we got a Jeep Grand Cherokee as she wanted more space. This was an unreliable disaster, so eventually made way for something smaller but new and reliable!
The C-Class expired and was replaced with a small 2004 hatchback and then I upgraded to what I have now (2013 Honda Civic) last year.
To be honest, it's not my perfect car but in a way it is. With respect to our household car budget, it is more important that we have a safe, reliable and fit-for-purpose family car (my wife's) than I have a sports car! I don't do a massive mileage, so don't need a diesel but I do use my car a lot for work every day, so want something that'll return around 40mpg (it'll do 50mpg on a run) I often have to transport equipment and sometimes people, so having more than 2 doors is useful and I need to have the ability to pick my children up from nursery/day care/school sometimes, so 4+ seats too. I also have to go to the city (3 hours each way) about once per month, so a bit of comfort and refinement (heated seats, climate, cruise etc) is desirable but I don't need a big car. I could probably make do with a Fiesta but my work regularly takes me off-tarmac to job sites, so the longer wheelbase and smoother ride is desirable and actually, the hot version (Type-R) would probably be worse for me, as worse ride, lower ground clearance, so more likely to rip off splitters/exhausts and bend wheels/pick up punctures etc.
In my current role, I don't really see me needing/wanting anything nicer, as it would get ruined, so I expect it will get replaced with another mid-range small family hatch (Mazda 3/Focus/Golf etc) when the time comes! I guess an SUV might be ideal but I'm not a massive fan of the small SUVs like the CRV/RAV4 and the ones I like (Discovery/X5/G-Class/Range Rover etc) are all far bigger than I need and would cost much more to run than what I have at the moment. Of the smaller SUVs, I do quite like the look of the Jeep Renegade and VW Tiguan though!
If I were ever to get a 2nd car, my childhood dream cars this side of a Ferrari/Aston Martin were the Toyota Supra TT and Nissan 300ZX TT but whether they justify their price tags when newer and arguably quicker/better metal is available for the same price, I don't know. Probably something RWD, 2+2 and coupe/convertible anyway! Monaro? An Elise or TVR certainly has appeal but pointless for me at the moment, as they would never get used. Something that's special but I can still take my family out in for the day or away for the weekend in makes much more sense!
White_goodman, I think you've hit an important point there when you mention cars like the Impreza, Evo, Cosworths etc. They were practical with rear seats, decent boot and besides fuel, had reasonable running costs but they were also great fun. I owned a classic Impreza and with a few small mods, it was as good on a shopping run as it was on a B-road blast or track. I think the lower weight had a lot to do with this as it felt more alive and it was less harsh on consumables when you were flinging it round a track. It even had a very characterful engine, it really was a one car fits all.
Unfortunately the new cars which have tried to fill this niche don't cut it. All the performance saloon replacements are too focused on toys and user friendliness. They are too heavy, cosseting and remote. OK they are better day-to-day cars but don't offer nearly the same thrills when you want to have fun. I also dread to think how much it would cost to attempt to track a new M3 or AMG. I had a friend who tracked his previous gen C63 once and it ended up costing him 4 figures in consumables as his tires and breaks where shot in one day on track. He also had to stop regularly as the car got upset at the abuse and went into "limp" mode once or twice, those videos of these cars sliding around on track are a bit far from the truth as they can realistically only manage a few laps.
If we assume the new crop of hot hatches are the replacement, that doesn't work either as they often suffer from the same issues of remoteness and weight. A Golf R or an Audi RS3 might be more usable but they make are extremely dull IMO. Even the new Impreza isn't really a replacement for it's predecessor as they've tried to make it more like the other cars in the segment and it's lost it's edge.
In short where it was possible to get a one car fits all solution previously, it's getting harder and harder. I can't think of a single car today that would be just at home carting the family around on a shopping trip as it would be on track.
Unfortunately the new cars which have tried to fill this niche don't cut it. All the performance saloon replacements are too focused on toys and user friendliness. They are too heavy, cosseting and remote. OK they are better day-to-day cars but don't offer nearly the same thrills when you want to have fun. I also dread to think how much it would cost to attempt to track a new M3 or AMG. I had a friend who tracked his previous gen C63 once and it ended up costing him 4 figures in consumables as his tires and breaks where shot in one day on track. He also had to stop regularly as the car got upset at the abuse and went into "limp" mode once or twice, those videos of these cars sliding around on track are a bit far from the truth as they can realistically only manage a few laps.
If we assume the new crop of hot hatches are the replacement, that doesn't work either as they often suffer from the same issues of remoteness and weight. A Golf R or an Audi RS3 might be more usable but they make are extremely dull IMO. Even the new Impreza isn't really a replacement for it's predecessor as they've tried to make it more like the other cars in the segment and it's lost it's edge.
In short where it was possible to get a one car fits all solution previously, it's getting harder and harder. I can't think of a single car today that would be just at home carting the family around on a shopping trip as it would be on track.
white_goodman said:
Very interesting topic. What interests me is if you go down the 2-car route, how much of your budget do you attribute to each vehicle? 50/50. A more expensive daily and a cheap fun car or a shed daily and an expensive fun car?
That's a very good question 
For me the two car thing is obvious, because I need a big car due to my sports and hobbies, but love track driving in small, fast, lightweight and responsive cars. The next question of budget though isn't quite so obvious! Thankfully things have naturally fallen into place for me because what I like, want and need in a practical road car (it's a long list, but the biggies are RWD, manual box, no control delays and a low roofline & CofG) can be attained quite cheaply (BMW 3 series) and if you spend more then you just get a newer car rather than a better car. For the track cars, you do tend to get more the more you spend, so that's where my money goes. As a result of this, my ratio is 1:3 road:track initial outlay, and the running costs are probably around that too.RobM77 said:
That's a very good question For me the two car thing is obvious, because I need a big car due to my sports and hobbies, but love track driving in small, fast, lightweight and responsive cars. The next question of budget though isn't quite so obvious! Thankfully things have naturally fallen into place for me because what I like, want and need in a practical road car (it's a long list, but the biggies are RWD, manual box, no control delays and a low roofline & CofG) can be attained quite cheaply (BMW 3 series) and if you spend more then you just get a newer car rather than a better car. For the track cars, you do tend to get more the more you spend, so that's where my money goes. As a result of this, my ratio is 1:3 road:track initial outlay, and the running costs are probably around that too.
I, quite embarrassingly, do not total up the costs. I except though that my toy costs me around 1500 - 3000 a year (last year I bought nitrons for it and servicing, insurance, MOT). For me the two car thing is obvious, because I need a big car due to my sports and hobbies, but love track driving in small, fast, lightweight and responsive cars. The next question of budget though isn't quite so obvious! Thankfully things have naturally fallen into place for me because what I like, want and need in a practical road car (it's a long list, but the biggies are RWD, manual box, no control delays and a low roofline & CofG) can be attained quite cheaply (BMW 3 series) and if you spend more then you just get a newer car rather than a better car. For the track cars, you do tend to get more the more you spend, so that's where my money goes. As a result of this, my ratio is 1:3 road:track initial outlay, and the running costs are probably around that too.Likewise with my thirsty barge....
I dont have a family or drink and I am not in debt so I will just keep it going unless it seems like I am not longer saving enough.
Toy is worth about 12-15k, barge is worth about 2k. Similar ideas we have. Garage rental for toy is £125 a month!
I haven't factored in my other cars (both sub 5k).
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