RE: Land Rover Defender 110 Heritage: Driven
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
coppice said:
every farmer I know has something Japanese.
Most farmers I know don't have Jap, they have a Land Rover. And you only need to spend 30 mins in the York Dales, Wales, Peaks or the Lakes to see how many still use Land Rover's. They are everywhere.I don't deny there are more Jap trucks on farms these days. But it's hardly a whitewash.
coppice said:
Well I have spent the last 30 odd years in the North York Moors - I see you are in Milton Keynes ? - and rest assured 95% of Land Rovers I see are used for..ahem..lifestyle. Most farming people I know woludn't have a LR given - it's Nissan, Toyota and Mitsubishi all the way
It's similar in the Cotswolds and London. Lots of love for them but they are bought for fun or for a certain business image. Almost all money conscious farmers do seem to have swapped to pickups some time ago. Since the end of State owned utilities, the Empire and MOD demand sales for genuine, practical use have plummeted. The biggest buyers for the last decade have been personal and leisure use. Sales were down to about 14k a year and the bulk of those were to the Home Counties.
What has been interesting is that in the last 24 months there has been a spike in buying from the utilities because there is lots of specialist kit that is driven off the Landy drivetrain and replacing that functionality is almost impossible.
Deerfoot said:
300bhp/ton said:
Because I've driven them a lot on the road and simply don't agree with you, based on my observations.
I too have driven a lot of them on roads. I have never been unhappy to get out of one.I simply don`t agree with your experience.
With 9" of soft coil springs and big sidewalls the ride comfort was very impressive. Cornering involved a bit of body roll and tyre squirm but you soon learn to drive at its pace and not try to hustle it. Just as you'd never take a sports car on a farm track and expect it to shine high speed handling is not what a Defender is about. I'm 6ft and a little bit and 'powerfully built' and never had an issue with comfort or with using my right arm to drive with.
If I had a use for it away from tarmac the Defender would never have been sold.
ELothian said:
Does anybody else hanker after a basic series 1 discovery? It's just about acceptable on road, great off road and a design icon, which really did create a new niche.
They're also very cheap in comparison!
Off to the classifieds now!!!
I had one years ago, a nice early 1990 one without antiroll bars. 2" lift, Detroit locker in the back, Tru-trac in the front, twin batts, winch, big intercooler, uppbed boost & fuelling oh & more lights than I knew what to do with. Hand painted with a roller too.They're also very cheap in comparison!
Off to the classifieds now!!!
Brilliant car, it did everything. If it hadn't scored a bore I'd probably still have it.
Had a S3 Ltwt once, much more like a Defender. Went ok with a V8 but not really an everyday car.
ELothian said:
Does anybody else hanker after a basic series 1 discovery? It's just about acceptable on road, great off road and a design icon, which really did create a new niche.
They're also very cheap in comparison!
Off to the classifieds now!!!
They're basically Rangie Classics underneath and a lot have been donors over the years. Same with the Disco 2. They're also very cheap in comparison!
Off to the classifieds now!!!
In fact, I'm just gutting one for the drivetrain at the moment. Had a mint interior and drive beautifully. Shot chassis though, which is common for the model as I think it's down to the steel they used.
A.J.M said:
I've driven them a lot on road as well.
They are f
king terrible. End of. But please somehow tell me how my own experiences and opinion is wrong because it doesn't sit right with yours.
Well they must be wrong. Or the vehicles you drove were broken. As there is nothing wrong with how they drive. They are f
king terrible. End of. But please somehow tell me how my own experiences and opinion is wrong because it doesn't sit right with yours.NVH as I mentioned earlier isn't as good. This is due to how the body fits to the chassis. But they corner,be too and ride perfectly fine.
What in you opinion specifically makes them f
king terrible as you say? Can you actually justify it or back it up in any way shape or form? Or only bullst?300bhp/ton said:
I don't understand how some of you think they are no good on the road.
Maybe some of you still need driving lessons
As they drive fine and if you aren't 6 foot tall, they are perfectly comfortable too. Very good driving position and good seats.
Sorry but this is bMaybe some of you still need driving lessons
As they drive fine and if you aren't 6 foot tall, they are perfectly comfortable too. Very good driving position and good seats.
ksI am 5ft 8
I didnt fit, I had to lower the window so as to have somewhere to put my right elbow, first gear was so far away from me that I seriously considered asking my passenger to put it in first for me, the handbrake is so low down it was unusable for me, the brakes were absolutely f
king scary completely incapable of slowing the vehicle down until you got down under 30 (by a combination of fear and willpower) then they would suddenly grab and turn it left (a bloody sight quicker than the steering) The seat was reasonably comfortable but the steering wheel was like something from a barge and was about 1/2 an inch from your chest.I did have fun in it once I realised that the only way to drive it was like a big quad, back off, get the front end to bite then get back on the power and balance it in a drift and use the gears not the brakes until you are at walking speed. And this was a meticulously maintained roughly 5 year old example that had just had a brake rebuild (at the dealers).
I wanted to love this car, I have always wanted one, the one I drove was a td5 so sounded pretty good and it was really the only good thing about it.
I drove a mates shed of an L200 and on the road the landrover wouldnt have seen which direction it went, it had a gearbox that you didnt have to be an orangutang to use and it stopped and steered about a million times better.
300bhp/ton said:
A.J.M said:
I've driven them a lot on road as well.
They are fking terrible. End of. But please somehow tell me how my own experiences and opinion is wrong because it doesn't sit right with yours.
Well they must be wrong. Or the vehicles you drove were broken. As there is nothing wrong with how they drive. They are f
king terrible. End of. But please somehow tell me how my own experiences and opinion is wrong because it doesn't sit right with yours.NVH as I mentioned earlier isn't as good. This is due to how the body fits to the chassis. But they corner,be too and ride perfectly fine.
What in you opinion specifically makes them f
king terrible as you say? Can you actually justify it or back it up in any way shape or form? Or only bullst?ked.You should make the drive up and tell them all what's wrong with them.
The ride is terrible, the Puma 110 had a front to back pitch as it rode. Standard ride height. It wouldn't settle down and felt like it was constantly finding bumps to trip over.
The 90 i did a on and off road competition in ( it's in this months LRM, car 16 ) rode badly, unknown 2 lift kit but it would buck front to back off road as well. Very uncomfortable and hard to read OS maps.
The 3 other 90s, have similar wallow and ride bounce. Mixture of standard and 2 inch lifts.
The TD5 rides the best with no front back wallow, it just wallows side to side. Next is a 300tdi, similar to the td5.
Steering, vague, one has a very worn steering box so can't judge that. Other's with rebuilt/recon ones are still wandery.
Every single one has had rust issues, 3 have had to get replacement chassis, the other's have had either a half chassis or crossmembers, A bar, outriggers. Let's not even start on bulkheads.
Doors? laughable. All rusty, to the point the one i used, when i opened it, the bottom fell off. Full bottom strip just dropped off, the tops don't seal. All leak from the bottom and the top. Which is nice when you need to wear wellies inside to keep dry.
Heating, 2 are actually good, the rest are hopeless and struggle, even with replacement matrix units, system flushing and bleeding. The wind gets in, it's futile to bother fixing that.
Even the Puma which is the guys pride and joy and has a silly amount invested in it, leaks like mad, seems to be at that stage of welding, it's already has crossmember and an outrigger and has terrible heating. Plus an engine that every now and then, loses power then comes back. Shall we bring up the 2 gearboxes under warranty by 23k or the front diff?
Every single one bar the Puma has had upgraded seats, RX8 ones bolt in nicely, so do Jeep Grand Cherokee, Saab Turbo, Disco 1 etc.
I don't hate the things, i'm being very honest with their numerous and well known failings, our fb group chat is forever full of them talking about one issue or another. I'll defend LR and it's cars and won't buy anything but them now.
For off road, yes, would happily have one. For on road. Not a chance. That's even with me fitting happily in the seat and not needing Defender elbow.
It's a design from the 80s and frankly was outdated by the competition years ago. Compare it to a Ranger, Hilux, etc.
Better off road, but on road, hopeless and that's it's biggest problem. It has to be better on road adn the current platform can't deliver that.
For what it's worth, i'm haggling over buying a 53 80" Series 1 that's been imported from New South Wales Australia along with 5 other 80s from a guy in England. Just the small matter of having nowhere to keep it, the purchase price and the fact it needs a rebuild but is pretty much solid, thanks to the nicer climate and them not getting hacked to hell and converted into trialer's like so many 80s here end up. However, that's minor details.
kurt535 said:
Each to their own, but those here who do not agree the Defender is gobshyte on the road might also consider garaging their Hilman Humbers as well and try a, oh I don't know, 2009 BMW 5 Series?
Objectively, a 5 series BMW is probably just about the best car ever made. Mrs G has one. It's safe, strong, reliable, comfortable, quiet, quick-ish, reasonably economical, roomy, practical and sensible. It's also pretty boring.Anything that isn't a 5 series BMW is basically wrong in some way: too big, too small, too noisy, too thirsty, too rattly, too expensive, etc etc etc.
But this is PH and most of us see cars as more than just the sum of their parts. Why else would you buy a TVR? Or an old BMW? Or a GT3? Or whatever.
The Defender is objectively terrible in many of the ways a 5 series is objectively perfect. But I haven't wanted a 5 series BMW since I was 3. And I don't feel like a 3 year old all over again every time I get in a 5 series.
It's the imperfections and idiosyncrasies, the character traits and the shortcomings that make cars special. And a Defender is definitely special. Clearly not everyone's cup of tea. But for those of us who've been bitten by the bug, there's really little point in trying to bring objective rationality to the party.
A 90 will always pitch badly (they're too short for the height the driver sits at), as will any vehicle with a poorly set up lift. The most common mistake people make when fitting lift kits is to go too stiff on the spring rate at which point they start to pitch and bounce all over the place. I went soft springs on my 110 lift coupled with rear air bags and it rode very well and was adjustable for load.
That said the standard 110 spring rates are pretty good too in my view.
Not driven anything newer than a 300tdi so no idea what the later ones are like.
That said the standard 110 spring rates are pretty good too in my view.
Not driven anything newer than a 300tdi so no idea what the later ones are like.
My experience of driving Landies is good, great workers. I was fortunate enough to drive many versions, laden/unladen, on and off road.
Rubbish on the road? well yes, suppose they were but I never had any problem adapting, reaching the controls or resing my arm, making it stop or go round corners. Parking was easy thanks to massive mirrors its squareness and that it was usually exactly the same size as lines in a parking bay, people waved, water came in through the gap at the top of the doors but there was always a hole for it to drain out of.
And the ones I watched on the Tempest Rally last week were managing ok....spectacular in fact well done to the AFRT.
23.
edited to add a bit I just remembered......
Rubbish on the road? well yes, suppose they were but I never had any problem adapting, reaching the controls or resing my arm, making it stop or go round corners. Parking was easy thanks to massive mirrors its squareness and that it was usually exactly the same size as lines in a parking bay, people waved, water came in through the gap at the top of the doors but there was always a hole for it to drain out of.
And the ones I watched on the Tempest Rally last week were managing ok....spectacular in fact well done to the AFRT.
23.
edited to add a bit I just remembered......
Edited by 23 on Tuesday 17th November 23:23
Edited by 23 on Tuesday 17th November 23:36
Ilovejapcrap said:
Work gave me one of these in the bad winter 2010?
It's ok but what do you do with your right arm.
I decided to cut mine off in the end
Put a coat on, wind the window down and stick your elbow out of it. Alternatively fit a smaller steering wheel and develop the biceps to turn it. Revel in the fact the ergonomics you're enjoying evolved in 1958 and barring slightly more comfortable seats have remained the same ever since. It's ok but what do you do with your right arm.
I decided to cut mine off in the end
ELothian said:
Does anybody else hanker after a basic series 1 discovery? It's just about acceptable on road, great off road and a design icon, which really did create a new niche.
They're also very cheap in comparison!
Off to the classifieds now!!!
Conran interiors FTW! A nice v8 is probably a cheap way of doing it now Range Rovers are going stupid in the price department.They're also very cheap in comparison!
Off to the classifieds now!!!
As many said already, Land Rovers are the classic "marmite" car. I think it's sad to see end of the line for the Defender, and I'm hoping that JLR will have a suitable modern replacement somewhere in the pipeline. It's clearly economics that's finally led to the end of production.
By modern standards the Defender is a bit of a dinosaur. Sure it's capable off-road, but then so is a LandCruiser or Nissan Patrol or a Jeep Wrangler. Landies retain a poor name for reliability and mechanical durability (although some of this may be unfair as they often also cop a lot of abuse). As at least one person mentioned they tend to record a high number of owners as poseurs buy them to tool around 'burbs and cities and find the day to day driving experience in reality very tiresome (not to mention the high running costs).
Unless you're farmer in an upland area, or a serious green lane enthusiast, there no rational argument for owning a Landie. But then there's no rational argument for owning a supercar either. Some people just like them.
By modern standards the Defender is a bit of a dinosaur. Sure it's capable off-road, but then so is a LandCruiser or Nissan Patrol or a Jeep Wrangler. Landies retain a poor name for reliability and mechanical durability (although some of this may be unfair as they often also cop a lot of abuse). As at least one person mentioned they tend to record a high number of owners as poseurs buy them to tool around 'burbs and cities and find the day to day driving experience in reality very tiresome (not to mention the high running costs).
Unless you're farmer in an upland area, or a serious green lane enthusiast, there no rational argument for owning a Landie. But then there's no rational argument for owning a supercar either. Some people just like them.
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