which cars gain the most when remapped?
Discussion
J4CKO said:
CorvetteConvert said:
One huge boost you can get is the one to 730 bhp for the new M5 with remap and minor other work. 730 is just amazing from 4.4 litres.
Jesus, 730 bhp in a 5 series BMW, that is ridiculous, I wonder how usable that much power is, traction must be at a premium with 2wd, those F10s always seem to make more than the book figure as standard.In my experience you need to be very careful where you go if getting a remap. I have used Revo twice for simple stage 1 remaps on a MK1 Octy vRS and also on a MK1 Leon Cupra 150 tdi.
The Leon was quoted as going from 150bhp/236ft lb to 190 bhp/290ft lb. Whatever the actual figure it was quicker than the EP3 Civic Type R I traded it in for but the clutch didn't get past 25k. Both the Leon and the Civic were new cars.
The Octavia vRS was quoted as 180bhp/177ft lb to 207bhp/230ft lb by Revo. It was quick whatever and in 90k miles all I needed was two front wheel bearings.
Lots of comment re Saabs here. My two penneth...................
I had a GM 900T Sensonic (190bhp) that I didn't have mapped but added an Abbott inter-cooler, air filter and back box only. It was at least as quick as my mapped Octavia.
My 9000 LPT Anniversary had an Abbott inter-cooler, remap, , JT full 3" exhaust from turbo back and air filter. I then took it down to Saabflight who dissed Abbott's power claims reckoning he could get much more. My mistake.
The dyno he used quoted 290bhp/ 310ft lb. It was definitely quick but the power curve was spikier than a startled hedgehog. The injectors clearly weren't up to it. The turbo wasn't up to it and the fuel pressure regulator wasn't up to it. For some reason whenever I tried to speak to him afterwards he would never come to the phone once he knew it was me.............. Shortly after selling it I believe the new owner needed an engine replacement.
Moral is go with a reputable dealer, don't get sucked in by quoted figures alone. And definitely, if nothing else, make sure the car is healthy before doing anything.
I desperately want to map my current MK2 Leon 170pd FR. But realistically it means DPF out and that is a no no these days.
Jimbo
The Leon was quoted as going from 150bhp/236ft lb to 190 bhp/290ft lb. Whatever the actual figure it was quicker than the EP3 Civic Type R I traded it in for but the clutch didn't get past 25k. Both the Leon and the Civic were new cars.
The Octavia vRS was quoted as 180bhp/177ft lb to 207bhp/230ft lb by Revo. It was quick whatever and in 90k miles all I needed was two front wheel bearings.
Lots of comment re Saabs here. My two penneth...................
I had a GM 900T Sensonic (190bhp) that I didn't have mapped but added an Abbott inter-cooler, air filter and back box only. It was at least as quick as my mapped Octavia.
My 9000 LPT Anniversary had an Abbott inter-cooler, remap, , JT full 3" exhaust from turbo back and air filter. I then took it down to Saabflight who dissed Abbott's power claims reckoning he could get much more. My mistake.
The dyno he used quoted 290bhp/ 310ft lb. It was definitely quick but the power curve was spikier than a startled hedgehog. The injectors clearly weren't up to it. The turbo wasn't up to it and the fuel pressure regulator wasn't up to it. For some reason whenever I tried to speak to him afterwards he would never come to the phone once he knew it was me.............. Shortly after selling it I believe the new owner needed an engine replacement.
Moral is go with a reputable dealer, don't get sucked in by quoted figures alone. And definitely, if nothing else, make sure the car is healthy before doing anything.
I desperately want to map my current MK2 Leon 170pd FR. But realistically it means DPF out and that is a no no these days.
Jimbo
Edited by JMF894 on Wednesday 25th November 10:03
stevesingo said:
In regard to your LS1 test data, I would suggest that they are making more power than stock, and it is as simple as that. Incidentally, the single roller dynos suffer the least tyre losses, but what is really interesting is that if you use a lower gear you get even lower losses. On my car the difference between using 3rd and 4th on a Dynojet is 18RWHP. It really is that easy to get an 18hp gain, just drop it a gear!
Isnt that why you should use the gear that is closest to a 1.00 ratio?I know they cant use 5th in my car which is 1.00 because it would be doing 183mph, so they use 4th instead which tops out at a lower speed
I've had a lot of my cars re-mapped (petrol and diesel) mostly by the same company 'Angel Tuning' although I've also used Revo and a few custom maps from smaller companies.
Still to date the biggest performance difference was on my Mk4 Golf GT TDI 150hp. It is claimed to give up to 211hp but claims apart the car was comprehensively altered! It felt more like an engine transplant than 'a bit more' and made the acceleration actually giggle worthy in 2nd and 3rd gears.
I can confirm it will also do 150mph on the clock with 5 people, a tent and full to the roof with luggage but you may need an empty Autobahn to replicate it.
Still to date the biggest performance difference was on my Mk4 Golf GT TDI 150hp. It is claimed to give up to 211hp but claims apart the car was comprehensively altered! It felt more like an engine transplant than 'a bit more' and made the acceleration actually giggle worthy in 2nd and 3rd gears.
I can confirm it will also do 150mph on the clock with 5 people, a tent and full to the roof with luggage but you may need an empty Autobahn to replicate it.
BBS-LM said:
True. you can get a reliable 260bhp from Golf GTI, Mk5.
I was chatting to a fellow at AMD Tuning, Essex and he said the Edition 30 (230bhp) is great for tuning to 300bhp+ .. Also pointed out that the Leon Cupra had the same engine as the Edition 30, so why bother with Golf MK5, ever 
Was there not a load of faff on Audisport.net when someone arranged a rolling road day for a load of S3s and found that the "300bhp" claim from a certain tuner was in fact only producing around c.275? Which was made worse as there were a few stock cars there producing the same..
That said, there were plenty of tuners back then (2010 ish?) who could get the full 300 from the TFSI in the S3 without any major changes but I think the injectors , fuel pump and turbo were at their limit.
That said, there were plenty of tuners back then (2010 ish?) who could get the full 300 from the TFSI in the S3 without any major changes but I think the injectors , fuel pump and turbo were at their limit.
All depends on the car, whether turboed or not will all see the biggest increases, whether petrol or diesel, and whether this is the only mod.
My e46 m3 went from 344 bhp to just under 360..which shows what a good job bmw did in the first place, but that was with a carbon airbox, ac schnitzer exhaust, so not a lot at all.
from my experience on standard turbo cars, whether petrol or diesel, the restricting factors are boost and fuel. So all standard it is usually the injectors that max out.
most injectors on petrol cars run at 65% of maximum and will run to 90% which in effects gives an increase of around 10%-15% extra fuel flow dependent on duty and cycle time.
Anymore than this and the injectors will stop,this should give 15-30% extra power max on a turbo car, any more than that and you will need to increase either fuel pressure, along with flow and after that larger injectors.
Your next points are ignition, and then strength of your rods and crank..especially if you start fitting larger turbos.
Any old school diesel turbo which may have a large turbo for its size,will respond well, think bmw 530d and volvo ,but watch your economy drop through the floor...what most people forget about remapping, its not power you should be looking for, but drive ability...remapping diesel gives a larger spread of torque,and brings it lower down, and on petrols often a much better driving experience if mapped well.
My e46 m3 went from 344 bhp to just under 360..which shows what a good job bmw did in the first place, but that was with a carbon airbox, ac schnitzer exhaust, so not a lot at all.
from my experience on standard turbo cars, whether petrol or diesel, the restricting factors are boost and fuel. So all standard it is usually the injectors that max out.
most injectors on petrol cars run at 65% of maximum and will run to 90% which in effects gives an increase of around 10%-15% extra fuel flow dependent on duty and cycle time.
Anymore than this and the injectors will stop,this should give 15-30% extra power max on a turbo car, any more than that and you will need to increase either fuel pressure, along with flow and after that larger injectors.
Your next points are ignition, and then strength of your rods and crank..especially if you start fitting larger turbos.
Any old school diesel turbo which may have a large turbo for its size,will respond well, think bmw 530d and volvo ,but watch your economy drop through the floor...what most people forget about remapping, its not power you should be looking for, but drive ability...remapping diesel gives a larger spread of torque,and brings it lower down, and on petrols often a much better driving experience if mapped well.
Had my E46 320d remapped by http://endtuning.com/ at a Bimmerforums dyno day. I had the downpipe changed before hand as the stock one had split so decided to go with the ecotune downpipe. The two runs were about 5 minutes apart with no change to the strapping etc. Very happy with the result.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP5xEhymm5o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP5xEhymm5o
red_slr said:
Was there not a load of faff on Audisport.net when someone arranged a rolling road day for a load of S3s and found that the "300bhp" claim from a certain tuner was in fact only producing around c.275? Which was made worse as there were a few stock cars there producing the same..
That said, there were plenty of tuners back then (2010 ish?) who could get the full 300 from the TFSI in the S3 without any major changes but I think the injectors , fuel pump and turbo were at their limit.
S3 injectors can support way more than 300hp. It's the high pressure fuel pump that normally becomes the restriction. The common upgrade path is a Loba Motorsport pump and an RS4 fuel rail valve. Then you are pretty much limited by turbo flow and intercooling. A well known tuning company in GTI circles is reputed to have mapped an Edition 30 to 400hp (with meth injection and other stuff), but spinning a K04 turbo to 1.8 bar really is stretching it a little far imo. Stock boost is 0.9 bar.That said, there were plenty of tuners back then (2010 ish?) who could get the full 300 from the TFSI in the S3 without any major changes but I think the injectors , fuel pump and turbo were at their limit.
R8VXF said:
Had my E46 320d remapped by http://endtuning.com/ at a Bimmerforums dyno day. I had the downpipe changed before hand as the stock one had split so decided to go with the ecotune downpipe. The two runs were about 5 minutes apart with no change to the strapping etc. Very happy with the result.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP5xEhymm5o
Their dyno used to be quite optimistic though 10-15 % at least https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP5xEhymm5o
Oh so many variables....... I think all dyno figures are horse s
te unless you're using them for tuning and need to measure gains.
My MX-5 Turbo measures 299HP on an unknown dyno and 255HP on a Dyno Dynamics.
A quick measure from my bum dyno that tells me it's F*cking quick whatever number I choose.
te unless you're using them for tuning and need to measure gains.My MX-5 Turbo measures 299HP on an unknown dyno and 255HP on a Dyno Dynamics.
A quick measure from my bum dyno that tells me it's F*cking quick whatever number I choose.
jogger1976 said:
JezF said:
You will not get 300 Bhp from a 2.0 Saab 9000 with a remap and a downpipe!
My 9000 2.3 Aero had 290bhp with a Speedparts remap (like Maptune), a full 3" exhaust system and air filter.
I was in the Saab scene and saw plenty at rolling road sessions, 300bhp from anything less than a highly modified 2.0 isn't possible.
However, the 150 to 225 leap for a 2.0 LPT is one of the biggest I know of. Anything that is LPT has the greatest power increase potential.
My 9000 Aero is 300bhp, and it only has a 3" downpipe, Performance exhaust, and a open air filter hidden in the left wing. So no "serious" mods needed.My 9000 2.3 Aero had 290bhp with a Speedparts remap (like Maptune), a full 3" exhaust system and air filter.
I was in the Saab scene and saw plenty at rolling road sessions, 300bhp from anything less than a highly modified 2.0 isn't possible.
However, the 150 to 225 leap for a 2.0 LPT is one of the biggest I know of. Anything that is LPT has the greatest power increase potential.
Edited by JezF on Monday 23 November 21:53
When I took my 2.0 Vector LPT to be serviced I was given a 2.3 (not an Aero) courtesy car that went like a stabbed rat.When I inquired as to whether my car could produce similar performance, the mechanic said that he could get up to 190bhp as a bare minimum for very little money as Saab already produced a factory tuned 2.0 LPT with 193 bhp. He said north of 200 bhp was reliable and definitley realistic.
Also, the chap that fixed my immobiliser said that he had a 300bhp 9000 Aero. TBF, from the pics on his phone and the description he gave it looked like it had seen some serious mods.
Edited by jogger1976 on Tuesday 24th November 22:29
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