which cars gain the most when remapped?

which cars gain the most when remapped?

Author
Discussion

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
Are we comparing "Bullsh*t" aftermarket tuner BHP with actual, measured under controlled conditions to a European std BHP?

In which case, my car went from 130bhp to 14,000,000 bhp and all i did was "map" it, init..........

legless

1,688 posts

139 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
Horse Pop said:
VW engines tend to show pretty big gains too because VW love under rating them. The Golf Mk7 GTI, if you compare VWs given figure to what it dynos at after a remap is pretty big, but the figure it dynos at before a remap vs the after figure is less of a difference.
I think there's lots of very optimistic rolling roads around. Having worked in the industry for over 10 years, I've yet to come across a VW Group (or any manufacturer) engine that exceeds its rated headline power figure at the flywheel by more than 2% when put on a bench dyno under proper test conditions.

Calculating the flywheel figure from the wheel HP is an inexact science and involves many assumptions about the transmission losses. Many of these can turn out to be quite wrong.

Horse Pop

685 posts

143 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
Does that include the new EA888 in the Mk7 GTi?

Just curious. I'm seeing it quite consistently dyno'd at a higher output than VW are claiming for it.

legless

1,688 posts

139 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
Horse Pop said:
Does that include the new EA888 in the Mk7 GTi?

Just curious. I'm seeing it quite consistently dyno'd at a higher output than VW are claiming for it.
I have to admit that I've not seen the EA888 in Golf GTI tune on the bench, but the 280PS variant in the Leon Cupra and the 180PS EA888 also from the Leon were both absolutely spot on.

Willy Nilly

12,511 posts

166 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
My company vehicle is about 11% more powerful that the official, independent, test data and advertised power suggests is should be on the dealers dyno. Official tests say 152hp at the pto, dealers dyno says 169, both at full load. It was on there 3 hours at full load so should have been just about warm enough.

The technician could have had a piss against the back wheel and tuned the radio to Heart FM then claimed doing so increased engine performance and without testing it before we would be non the wiser.

griffin dai

3,194 posts

148 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
Saab 9-3 2.8 v6

250bhp & 258ft/lbs to 320bhp & 409ft/lbs
http://www.jzwtuning.com/product/v6-2-8-cars-i-fla...

Some have seen closer to 440ft/lbs though. Pretty impressive for a £450 remap!!

s70rmp

649 posts

128 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
dave_s13 said:
A mate just got a Mercedes c220 cdi.

A quick Google suggests they are exactly the same as a c250 apart from the map. So it will go from 170 to 260bhp,and to 600nm (not sure on std). That looks like one hell of a jump.
the injectors are different I've checked it out for my C220 but have just agreed a deal on a C350 CDI or I'd have had the C220 remapped

Corbeliere

683 posts

118 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
My better half's V70 2.4T petrol is BSR remapped. I did it about 9 years ago and it still runs as sweet as ever.
The figures BSR quote are 252bhp & 400ft/lb. It was originally 200bhp.
The difference on the first full blast run up our drive was amazing. I was truly gobsmacked at the difference in power.

I'd love to get my Conti' GT remapped but the cost is stupidly expensive. It would no doubt be fun though.

legless

1,688 posts

139 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
For clarity, the bench testing I refer to is against industry standard DIN/SAE Net measurement.

This is quite prescriptive around conditions, and things like the air pressure and temperature are tightly controlled. Outside of these conditions, the outputs will naturally differ.

AW111

9,455 posts

132 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
legless said:
I think there's lots of very optimistic rolling roads around. Having worked in the industry for over 10 years, I've yet to come across a VW Group (or any manufacturer) engine that exceeds its rated headline power figure at the flywheel by more than 2% when put on a bench dyno under proper test conditions.

Calculating the flywheel figure from the wheel HP is an inexact science and involves many assumptions about the transmission losses. Many of these can turn out to be quite wrong.
beerbeerbeer

As a 20+ year veteran in the dyno industry, I hate "flywheel" power figures from chassis dynos with a passion!

Unfortunately, our customers' customers insist on it. Especially in the UK.



Having said that, I know of one (non-UK) operator with a hub dyno, who is advertising his services as "our dyno gives you more horsepower", and apparently is drawing customers from near and far because their cars have more power on his dyno!





Once upon a very long time ago, there may have been a dyno that read 50% high if you entered the registration of my stheap 120y... getmecoat

RemyMartin

6,759 posts

204 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
doogz said:
Max_Torque said:
Are we comparing "Bullsh*t" aftermarket tuner BHP with actual, measured under controlled conditions to a European std BHP?

In which case, my car went from 130bhp to 14,000,000 bhp and all i did was "map" it, init..........
Why do you let these threads bother you so much? Just stay away if it upsets you so.
+1

NJH

3,021 posts

208 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
The claims on those old Saab engines is not that far of the mark though. I had a 9-5 2.0 LPT, left factory with 150 Bhp. Nordic couldn't tune it so gave me my money back but couldn't find what was stopping it from boosting properly. I bought a BSR stage 1 box anyway that remaps via the OBD connection, even before we found was wrong stopping it from boosting fully it made 175 on the old Weltmesiter dyno at Silverstone. Eventually we found by pure chance that pipe going into the airbox was loose and this must have been causing some turbulence that was confusing the air flow meter later on. It was like a different car after that and out dragged my Porsche 968 that I had at the time in a straight out 1 v 1 down a dual carriageway for a bit, it just had more midrange to it so up against a 240 Bhp car which was a good 100+ Kg lighter it couldn't have been far off the claimed 215 Bhp and loads of torque. That experience did tell me though that whilst true that the Swedish turbo engines could be tuned very easily to make big gains the people doing it don't really understand how it all works and the whole of the aftermarket industry is much like that IMHO, mostly just guess work.

Willy Nilly

12,511 posts

166 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
Why aren't power ratings quoted at the wheels rather that at the flywheel?

AW111

9,455 posts

132 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
Willy Nilly said:
Why aren't power ratings quoted at the wheels rather that at the flywheel?
Because tyre width, compound and construction all affect the amount of power lost at the wheels.
Hence economy ratings on tyres.

This is also why Priusses (Priuii?) and the like came with tyres designed for minimum rolling resistance, rather than maximum traction.

Interesting idea though :
Would people automatically go for wide sticky tyres if they knew it would result in lower power and economy figures?
Should CO2 figures be adjusted for tyres as well?

ben5575

6,221 posts

220 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
dave_s13 said:
See my reply above/below.

Merc 220cdi are identical to the 250cdi apart from the map so 170->260bhp is possible. As far as I can tell anyway.
The W204 c250cdi are twin turbo against 220cdi single turbo. Fairly sure it's the same on the latest generation as well.

ETA, it appears there's been a fair amount of discussion on the veracity of my statement elsewhere on PH in the past. Sorry I wasn't looking to reopen old wounds hippy

Edited by ben5575 on Saturday 21st November 13:03

kingofdbrits

622 posts

192 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
I'd be very sceptical about figures tuning companies say, they're trying to sell you something so will always give the best possible headline figures

Interesting site where many cars have been tested, gives a good idea what cars are actually making and helps deal with people claiming silly power figures from standard cars. http://rototest-research.eu/index.php?DN=29&Li...

Audi RS4's perform particularly badly http://rototest-research.eu/popup/performancegraph...


untakenname

4,953 posts

191 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
Some new Mazda's use the same engine across the range so the gains will be big on them.

I can vouch for the Saab gains. Did my own tune on the Saab 9-3 LPT using T5 suite and got about 40 hp more, made a massive difference going from 30mph to 60mph but then ruined the turbo pushing it too far so got a mitsu TD04, 3"dp and intercooler along with a proper tune, pushing about 350bhp.

Everything else driveline wise was stock and it handled the power fine for two years.

Dr G

15,159 posts

241 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
A C6, A6 2.0TFSI leaves the factory with 160 BHP; a map gives you generally 260-265 BHP.

There you go, 100 BHP from software alone tongue out

Tyler Durden

Original Poster:

81 posts

199 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
Are those gains possible with any 2.0 TFSI engine?

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 21st November 2015
quotequote all
RemyMartin said:
doogz said:
Max_Torque said:
Are we comparing "Bullsh*t" aftermarket tuner BHP with actual, measured under controlled conditions to a European std BHP?

In which case, my car went from 130bhp to 14,000,000 bhp and all i did was "map" it, init..........
Why do you let these threads bother you so much? Just stay away if it upsets you so.
+1
I'm not really bothered, just pointing out that you can't compare OEM flywheel figures with aftermarket, chassis rolls ones..........