BMW i8 or Tesla Model S?

[Durzel]

Tesla has an air of progress about it, it feels like it's on the cutting edge even if aesthetically it is quite restrained (one could argue that's a good thing - the whole "doesn't have to shout about it" aspect). Part of its allure I think is Elon Musk's well publicised work in other domains - SpaceX, Hyperloop, etc. Owning a Tesla is, in a way, like being a part of that ambition.

Tesla is to cars what Apple is to computing in my opinion - arguably not the absolute best assembly of components that exist, but surely the most single minded, assured application of them.

I must admit I quite like the look of the i8, and was due to have a test drive, but honestly the problem with overtly "futuristic" looking cars like it is that it has the potential to date really badly within only a few years. The Tesla by contrast wouldn't look out of place anywhere for years to come. Side by side it's tough not to look at the i8 as trying a bit too hard to be noticed, "look at me I'm a hybrid baby".

[Chris71]

k-ink said:

The i8 looks like an eight year old boy's idea of a car: A half broken Transformer which is desperately seeking attention.

By contrast the Tesla saloons are more like a Mazda 6 - safe, restrained, not likely to scare consumers.

EFA

[gruffalo]

The i8 is a fudge really, not a practical EV but has good build quality.

The Tesla is a genuine EV but has US build quality and feels plastic and frankly a bit cheap on the inside.

The Tesla is probably the better car but the BMW feels like the better car.

IMHO of course.

[Gareth79]

Kitchski said:

Me and the guys I was with worked out that if we'd driven up in a Tesla to see that Tesla, we wouldn't make it home again in the the £60,000 + car. My £700 Saab on the other hand, did.

Lots of rapid chargers on the motorway, and plenty up the M3/M40.

[98elise]

Kitchski said:

The range is still too short, and I'd happily trade some of the ludicrous performance for a longer range.

The thing with an EV is that you don't have to. A very high power electric motor is pretty much as efficient as a low power motor (in like for like driving). As the Tesla D has two motors its actually more efficient than the single motor model.

As to range, was there not a supercharger anywhere on your route, or even normal electric charge/parking where you parked?

Also if you are prepared to drive at 25mph everywhere you can get 450 miles out of a Tesla

[Kitchski]

Gareth79 said:

Lots of rapid chargers on the motorway, and plenty up the M3/M40.

How quickly do they charge though? It's a pain in the arse to stop to put more fuel in if you're running low, and that only takes 10mins to add another 400miles or so to your range. Is a rapid charger going to take 60mins to add 100miles, or something like that?

98elise said:

The thing with an EV is that you don't have to. A very high power electric motor is pretty much as efficient as a low power motor (in like for like driving). As the Tesla D has two motors its actually more efficient than the single motor model.

As to range, was there not a supercharger anywhere on your route, or even normal electric charge/parking where you parked?

Also if you are prepared to drive at 25mph everywhere you can get 450 miles out of a Tesla

See what you're saying about the power vs. range. Didn't spot any chargers on the route (because I'm not looking for them - would have no idea what they look like), but even if I had I refer to my point to the chap above - how long does it take to charge, and what kind of range does that give? Takes 10mins to top your tank up for another 400miles or whatever, and that's a pain.

That said, you pay for that fuel. You don't pay for the electricity yourself, I'm guessing it's just the planet that does?

[kambites]

Kitchski said:

How quickly do they charge though? It's a pain in the arse to stop to put more fuel in if you're running low, and that only takes 10mins to add another 400miles or so to your range. Is a rapid charger going to take 60mins to add 100miles, or something like that?

Tesla claim 170 miles in 30 minutes from their superchargers.

[Durzel]

30 mins would go pretty quickly when stopping off at services for a coffee or whatever, which is presumably the sort of practical situation you'd find yourself running out of juice (unless you hadn't bothered to charge at home), surely?

[Kitchski]

170miles for 30mins is better than I thought, but that range shorten as the batteries age I would have thought.

[Atmospheric]

Debaser said:

Interesting question. I prefer the drivetrain in the Tesla, but after spending time driving both it's obvious the i8 has been much more thoroughly developed.

...and this is the type of real life experience post this thread deserves. Thank you.

Many laugh at marketing for German brands, yet are blind to Tesla's marketing machine. It's a great gadget, the Tesla, fast, spacious and good tech. I'd love one. But, to me its a gadget that you drive. Not a car IMO

The i8 is an extremely well developed and underrated car; I imagine when the second gen is ready it will have more competitors, but right now it has none and its all the better for it. The i8, all day and every day for me

[corozin]

I8 every time.

If you actually come across a Tesla (as I did at the NEC a few weeks ago) it will quickly become apparent that the materials and quality of finish would embarass owners of a £20k Korean saloon, let alone a £70k premium car. I'm sure they will improve it over time but right now, think "American build quality"

[Lozrington]

I've had a Tesla 90D for about a month and have done 3,000 miles in that time. It's by far and away the best car I've ever owned. I've not driven an i8, but tried the i3 and was impressed. The range on the Tesla did it for me. Rated range is 330 miles but real world range is 190-270 depending on how you drive it. It's a proper car and realistic long-distance tool- the autopilot function is unbelieveable. I've done half laps of the M25 without touching the controls, including repeated stop start traffic. At the same time, when you get on a driving road, it's 4wd and handles very well, with amazing acceleration. No regrets whatsoever!

[Dr Gitlin]

It really depends what you want out of a car. The i8 weighs 1500kg but behind the wheel it feels 2-300kg lighter thanks to the way the car is damped and because the carbon tub is so stiff. The back seats are slightly better than a 911 but the boot is pretty small. The Tesla is more than 2100kg and feels it; it's not a sports car even if if is bloody fast in a straight line. It's got buckets of room and five doors, but the interior build quality is not really in keeping with a car of its price.

I don't think either would be particularly good on track. The i8 is a lot of fun (and extremely fast) up to about 8/10ths but then the narrow front tyres and the fact that it is actually 1500kg and not 1250kg come into play.

[gangzoom]

I'm not sure what people go on about regarding the interior the Tesla feeling like a cheap car. Our other car is a £40k+ Lexus, and the P85D I test drove felt just as well put together. The only thing that stopped me from ordering the Tesla on the spot was the fact I still have another 12 months left on my Nissan Leaf PCP deal...Have to wait till next year Xmas to order our Tesla

Range on EVs really is not as big deal as people make out. Even though I've only got a range of less than 90 miles in the Leaf I've done nearly 5000 commuting miles with no issue. Unlike our Lexus we can refuel the Leaf at home - So no wasted time standing/waiting at a petrol station, and it's easily 1/5 the fuel costs (Lexus does a real world 50mpg). With winter weather my wife is loving the pre-heat feature on the Leaf, no more wind screen scraping. The fact we bought the Leaf a month after the Lexus, and the Leaf is now just about to overtake the Lexus in terms of millage is enough to convince me that a Tesla with a range of more than double the Leaf will have no issues at been our 'main' car.

The i8 is the more distinct car, but nothing can hide the facts it's really just a petrol engine supplemented by a small battery pack - Much like our Lexus hybrid, or a Toyota Prius .

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 1st December 06:52

[swisstoni]

I like the understated looks of the Tesla and dislike the 'ooh look at me, i'm electrick and everythink' look of the BMW.

[Dr Gitlin]

gangzoom said:

I'm not sure what people go on about regarding the interior the Tesla feeling like a cheap car. Our other car is a £40k+ Lexus, and the P85D I test drove felt just as well put together. The only thing that stopped me from ordering the Tesla on the spot was the fact I still have another 12 months left on my Nissan Leaf PCP deal...Have to wait till next year Xmas to order our Tesla

Range on EVs really is not as big deal as people make out. Even though I've only got a range of less than 90 miles in the Leaf I've done nearly 5000 commuting miles with no issue. Unlike our Lexus we can refuel the Leaf at home - So no wasted time standing/waiting at a petrol station, and it's easily 1/5 the fuel costs (Lexus does a real world 50mpg). With winter weather my wife is loving the pre-heat feature on the Leaf, no more wind screen scraping. The fact we bought the Leaf a month after the Lexus, and the Leaf is now just about to overtake the Lexus in terms of millage is enough to convince me that a Tesla with a range of more than double the Leaf will have no issues at been our 'main' car.

Edited by gangzoom on Tuesday 1st December 06:52

The P90D they lent me had a misaligned cubby underneath the touchscreen (~1.5 cm gap between the cubby and the dashboard on the top left corner, so it was in at an angle) and there are acres of hard shiny plastic (like between the front seats). It's understandable—Tesla's R&D has gone into the drivetrain, not the interior, and it's extremely impressive what they've done as a startup in just a few years. But the car costs $120,000 over here, and the interior fit and finish has a long way to go before it justifies that price tag.

said:

The i8 is the more distinct car, but nothing can hide the facts it's really just a petrol engine supplemented by a small battery pack - Much like our Lexus hybrid, or a Toyota Prius .

The fact that the i8 is as fast as it is with just a 1.5L 3-cylinder engine and a "small battery pack" is nothing short of remarkable. For real world driving it felt not much slower than a Huracán LP610-4, even though that car has almost double the horsepower and weighs less. And even if you drive it like you stole it it does 30 mpg (25 US mpg). Then there's the fact that it's got a carbon fiber tub (the next cheapest carbon hybrid sports car is a Porsche 918) and the fact that it looks like a spaceship.

If you've not had a chance to drive one you really need to before writing it off. The way that BMW have damped the car is phenomenal. The only car I've driven all year that impressed me more was the 650S Spider.

Edited by Dr Gitlin on Tuesday 1st December 12:21

Edited by Dr Gitlin on Tuesday 1st December 15:24

[unpc]

Durzel said:

I must admit I quite like the look of the i8, and was due to have a test drive, but honestly the problem with overtly "futuristic" looking cars like it is that it has the potential to date really badly within only a few years.

This is very true and I think it's starting to look dated already. I had a test drive in the i8 and it left me totally underwhelmed. Didn't feel very quick either. The various systems were well integrated but I didn't desire it, even a little bit. Not driven a Tesla but have had a good nose around one and it's impressive.

[gangzoom]

Dr Gitlin said:

The fact that the i8 is as fast as it is with just a 1.5L 3-cylinder engine and a "small battery pack" is nothing short of remarkable. For real world driving it felt not much slower than a Huracán LP610-4, even though that car has almost double the horsepower and weighs less. And even if you drive it like you stole it it does 30 mpg (25 US mpg). Then there's the fact that it's got a carbon fiber tub (the next cheapest carbon hybrid sports car is a Porsche 918) and the fact that it looks like a spaceship.

If you've not had a chance to drive one you really need to before writing it off. The way that BMW have damped the car is phenomenal. The only car I've driven all year that impressed me more was the 650S Spider.

I'm only joking, I know BMW can how to make very very good cars (my last car was a 335i), and the carbon fibre chassis in the i3/i8 is probably the most advanced around. I have no doubt the i8 will drive better than a Model S, it'll be amazing if it didn't. But for me, after 9 months of pure EV motoring I just cannot bring my self to spend a single £ on any car that has a petrol engine in. If the wife would let me I would sell her Lexus tomorrow for a £10K loss in deprecation, and replace it with a Model S (with another £20K worth of deprecation in 12 months).

[GreigM]

unpc said:

This is very true and I think it's starting to look dated already.

Yup, saw one today and the back-end is dating extremely quickly - I wouldn't like to have a deposit on one now as a can see precipitous depreciation on the close horizon for these.

[ruggedscotty]

so comparing an I8 and a Tesla S..... that would be like comparing a 911 with an E class - different cars indeed. The i8 is a sporty car where as the Tesla is a normal family waggon.

Yes battery technology has to improve we have one supercharger in scotland and the rest depends on normal chargers so the advice is to charge often in small intervals.

I had a drive in a Tesla and would say that it is so very different to any car with an ICE. And I mean really different. Im in say an M5. I put my foot down - engine has to spool the turbos, the gear box has to work out what it wants to do yes you may have software in there and you can work towards sorting the engine out to react quicker but these are fixes and alterations being done to work round the fallicies of the ICE.

The tesla....... what a car. Any place any speed sink the pedal and you have rapid (rabid) acceleration like nothing you have experienced before. It takes some getting used to and it just keeps pilling on the speed - no engine curves no turbos cams or the like to sully the power delivery it just does it.

I had a test drive last week in Edinburgh and I came away most impressed. Were at the dawn of a new age.