Stupid 'option' items on new cars
Discussion
Al U said:
A friend recently got a 335d estate on lease. He originally wanted a saloon 320d with folding seats but after adding the option, the monthly cost increase meant that he could spend a small amount more and get a 335d estate, which comes with the folding seats as standard.
Not sure if serious?!?Nohedes said:
Al U said:
A friend recently got a 335d estate on lease. He originally wanted a saloon 320d with folding seats but after adding the option, the monthly cost increase meant that he could spend a small amount more and get a 335d estate, which comes with the folding seats as standard.
Not sure if serious?!?Except VW will charge you £300 for poverty spec white.
What I hate is options that require other options. As choosing my new car I looked at the new A4. I really liked the virtual dash. From memory it was about £450 but in order to select it you also needed the technology pack at £1500. Why not just have tech model with both as part of the standard spec?
The problem is worse with the "premium" brands. Mercedes will still charge you £450 for DAB on some models.
Don't even get me started on t he myriad of phone connection options. I spent 3 hours reading through the Mercedes and other various sites and forums before ticking the box on the order sheet. I'm still not sure I picked the right option.
What I hate is options that require other options. As choosing my new car I looked at the new A4. I really liked the virtual dash. From memory it was about £450 but in order to select it you also needed the technology pack at £1500. Why not just have tech model with both as part of the standard spec?
The problem is worse with the "premium" brands. Mercedes will still charge you £450 for DAB on some models.
Don't even get me started on t he myriad of phone connection options. I spent 3 hours reading through the Mercedes and other various sites and forums before ticking the box on the order sheet. I'm still not sure I picked the right option.
IanCress said:
Taking your cruise control example, Why give something away for free when they can charge for the feature. It may only be a 50p stalk and activating a bit of code in the ECU, but it provides a tangible benefit for the customer, so it's worth charging for.
I imagine that without people purchasing options, most car companies wouldn't make any money.
Someone I know was involved in some kind of focus group looking into the cost and perceived value of particular options. As you say, the cost to the manufacturer of adding cruise control was literally pennies, everything except the switch was in place anyway, so the question was something like, 'How much would you be prepared to pay for the option of cruise control, £0 £5 £50 £250 etc', I'm guessing that pretty much everyone would pay at least £50 (except my wife, who refuses point blank to use it) so there's always a profit in such low cost options. I imagine that without people purchasing options, most car companies wouldn't make any money.
Guvernator said:
I think "premium" brands are particularly bad at this, especially the Germans. You can buy a top of the range AMG\M\RS or even a Porsche and it will often have stuff missing that you get for free on a Fiesta.
Asking people to spend 30% over and above what is an already expensive and allegedly "top spec" car is a p*sstake IMO. The problem is this disease has spread, even Lexus who used to be the king of chuck everything at it including the kitchen sink are doing it. I managed to spec up an extra 20% of options on a Lexus configurator a few months ago on stuff that they'd happily have included as standard a few years ago.
I have to agree.Asking people to spend 30% over and above what is an already expensive and allegedly "top spec" car is a p*sstake IMO. The problem is this disease has spread, even Lexus who used to be the king of chuck everything at it including the kitchen sink are doing it. I managed to spec up an extra 20% of options on a Lexus configurator a few months ago on stuff that they'd happily have included as standard a few years ago.
I can't believe that you can spend £40k on a supposedly luxury car and find that, for example, Cruise Control isn't standard (when it is on even a Mundano).
One of my hobbies (sad, I know) is playing with the configurators and I'm often staggered at just what you don't get for your money.
Guvernator said:
...I've bought optioned up German cars before but unfortunately I'm not flush enough to mean I have to like it or not feel like I am being taken for a mug at times.
And again we agree.For me it's not really about comparisons with Ford Fiestas – it's about what a car should come with commensurate with the type of car that it is.
I don't expect to pay extra for cruise control on a motorway mile-muncher. I don't expect to pay extra for sports suspension on a sports car (you want me to pay extra to make it go around corners like it should? I mean, really?).
It's a nonsense and even if I'd just won the EuroMillions rollover, I'd still feel mugged off paying for things like that.
SidewaysSi said:
I would love it if manufacturers gave us completely basic cars and had an enormous option list to satisfy those who like that sort of thing. For instance an M3 with a basic radio, little wheels, manual windows and no toys whatsoever. Maybe priced at £40K ish. Cars would be much more interesting. And probably a lot cheaper too.
I don't think it would end up cheaper. For any production line, the most cost effective method will be one with zero deviations from the standard. Therefore for a given spec level, zero further options would be the cheapest scenario - no different wheel choice, only one colour, etc. etc. As soon as you add options, you add deviations from the main production line which means manual intervention at worst, additional programming for increased logistics at best.If you imagine it taken to the extreme, asking, say, Ford to develop a completely one-off car just for you would cost millions, even though it would still be a Ford. Ferrari do this sort of service (e.g. Eric Clapton's SP-12, which still started with an existing car base - according to Jalopnik it was $4.7m; Glickenhaus apparently paid Pininfarina $4m for his P4/5); I remember a mention that on Ferrari's bespoke price list, brake caliper paint can be £300k.
In almost any area of modern life, the cheapest option will be "off the peg/shelf" equivalent, then "made to measure", and then "completely bespoke".
xRIEx said:
SidewaysSi said:
I would love it if manufacturers gave us completely basic cars and had an enormous option list to satisfy those who like that sort of thing. For instance an M3 with a basic radio, little wheels, manual windows and no toys whatsoever. Maybe priced at £40K ish. Cars would be much more interesting. And probably a lot cheaper too.
I don't think it would end up cheaper. For any production line, the most cost effective method will be one with zero deviations from the standard. Therefore for a given spec level, zero further options would be the cheapest scenario - no different wheel choice, only one colour, etc. etc. As soon as you add options, you add deviations from the main production line which means manual intervention at worst, additional programming for increased logistics at best.If you imagine it taken to the extreme, asking, say, Ford to develop a completely one-off car just for you would cost millions, even though it would still be a Ford. Ferrari do this sort of service (e.g. Eric Clapton's SP-12, which still started with an existing car base - according to Jalopnik it was $4.7m; Glickenhaus apparently paid Pininfarina $4m for his P4/5); I remember a mention that on Ferrari's bespoke price list, brake caliper paint can be £300k.
In almost any area of modern life, the cheapest option will be "off the peg/shelf" equivalent, then "made to measure", and then "completely bespoke".
Might be the kind of folk lore you get in this kind of company but it was certainly the way they thought- when I worked for the electric board the late 80's transits they paid to have the standard fit radios de-optioned (the radio was free but the alternative blank piece of plastic was £10 IIRC)
Fortunately they were also too tight to pay extra for diesel engines like every other fleet on the road so they were all petrol which was nice!
Fortunately they were also too tight to pay extra for diesel engines like every other fleet on the road so they were all petrol which was nice!
Dapster said:
On a similar note, a supplier of mine supplies components to a well known manufacturer of washing machines. They do a 1,000 rpm, 1,200 rpm and 1,500 rpm spin model, each a bit more expensive than the one below. Only it's a lot cheaper to manufacture all models to run at at least 1,500 rpm and just badge them up differently!
Computer CPUs are much the same. They build them all to run at the highest speed, then just laser cut a track to set the actual speed.SidewaysSi said:
I would love it if manufacturers gave us completely basic cars and had an enormous option list to satisfy those who like that sort of thing. For instance an M3 with a basic radio, little wheels, manual windows and no toys whatsoever. Maybe priced at £40K ish. Cars would be much more interesting. And probably a lot cheaper too.
Dig out a Mercedes price list from the mid 80's. Back in those days, Mercs came with no options whatsoever and everything was spec-able, the logic being that it was the customer's money, so the customer could choose exactly what he or she wanted. If sir wanted the base spec 190 with a 4 speed manual, keep fit windows and flat paint but electric memory seats, then that's what sir could have. Similarly if sir wanted the 500 SEL with steel wheels and no radio but with twin flag poles and rear window curtains, then again, fill your boots. On a similar note, a supplier of mine supplies components to a well known manufacturer of washing machines. They do a 1,000 rpm, 1,200 rpm and 1,500 rpm spin model, each a bit more expensive than the one below. Only it's a lot cheaper to manufacture all models to run at at least 1,500 rpm and just badge them up differently!
I find the VW Audi group bad for this, my £33k A5 needed the extra £60 for auto hold, comes standard on pretty much any other VW Audi car.
My Leon gets bendy xenon and storage pack equivalent as part of the spec, equivelent Audi / VW need them specced.
Oh yeah I was one of those who stretched my lease to get a 318d 5 years ago and didn't have enough left to spec £300 catches to put the seats down, never needed them though to be honest
My Leon gets bendy xenon and storage pack equivalent as part of the spec, equivelent Audi / VW need them specced.
Oh yeah I was one of those who stretched my lease to get a 318d 5 years ago and didn't have enough left to spec £300 catches to put the seats down, never needed them though to be honest
This topic reminds me of a friend who, back in the 1960s, decided to buy a Sunbeam Alpine. As it happened, he had a factory visit just before he ordered his car, and he happened to notice that the first item fitted into the bodyshell was the heater - and at that time the heater was an optional extra. So he ordered his car without the option.
When he came to collect his car, the dealer tried to charge him extra for a heater. No way! So the car was wheeled into the dealer's service department for removal of the heater. Two days later he was told to collect his car, complete with heater, because the workshop foreman refused to dismantle the whole car to remove said heater!
When he came to collect his car, the dealer tried to charge him extra for a heater. No way! So the car was wheeled into the dealer's service department for removal of the heater. Two days later he was told to collect his car, complete with heater, because the workshop foreman refused to dismantle the whole car to remove said heater!
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