B7 RS4 vs. E90 M3 vs. C63 AMG

B7 RS4 vs. E90 M3 vs. C63 AMG

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white_goodman

Original Poster:

4,042 posts

190 months

Monday 30th November 2015
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Ok, so B7 RS4 vs. E90 M3 vs. W204 C63 AMG, which would you buy? They all seem to be available for 20-25k (the M3 possibly a bit less) and all offer ample performance and a V8 soundtrack.

When I was 25, my boss had one of the first B7 RS4s and I thought that it was awesome. I drove it once but only a few yards around to the front of the building as it was raining and he didn't want to get wet! The controls felt nice and tight and weighty and I thought that it looked and sounded good too. Having owned a WRX, I also like AWD in a performance car, as you can corner about twice as quickly and stop in half the time wink Only joking but I do love the traction and it does inspire some confidence. However, 5 years later my neighbour had a B7 RS4 Avant and I actually thought it looked a bit too blingy (not RS Audi's best effort, as the earlier cars and the current RS4 for that matter look a lot more subtle in a good way) and it was really loud on start-up. I don't know if I want everyone on the estate to know when I've gone out or when I've come home and I think an Audi RS should be more of a Q-car than that. I have also read that they have a surprisingly high bork factor (active dampers leaking and engine coking up etc). Unusually, as estates are a bit of an Audi RS thing, I always preferred the looks of the saloon too but these are quite rare compared to Avants and the other two cars for that matter. Outside of PH, arguably the coolest image though.



For the last few years, I have been convinced that the M3 is the one to have. I like the subtle looks, the engine is a bit more subdued at low revs but still screams at high revs, which for me is a good thing and supposedly, the M3 has the edge for handling but they are very thirsty apparently (although I expect all of these cars are) and I don't know how much of an impact the infamous M-tax has on running costs! This may be offset by slightly lower prices compared to the RS4 and C63 though.



The C63 hasn't interested me much until recently. I have traditionally favoured Mercedes over Audi or BMW but I just think their recent efforts (W204 included) have been brash and ugly. That being said, I saw a black one with straight-spoke alloys the other day and it looked awesome (and evil and mean)! Sounds great too and they seem to be well-liked on PH. In general, I'm also an estate car fan and think the estate version looks just as good and adds an extra dash of practicality to the package (never a bad thing when you're trying to justify a new purchase).



So which one would you buy and why? Which is the best to drive/easiest to live with/least expensive to run etc?

SirSamuelBuca

1,353 posts

156 months

Monday 30th November 2015
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m3 is the drivers car for sure. if you dont mind driving it hard to get the power out of it its awesome and with a simple exhaust mod sounds better than the c63 which sounds evil wink

chappardababbar

409 posts

142 months

Monday 30th November 2015
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In my experience the bork is strong with the B7. Awesome drive though

alsem

580 posts

189 months

Monday 30th November 2015
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C63 estate is good looking and most comfy, easy choice

ZX10R NIN

27,493 posts

124 months

Monday 30th November 2015
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The C63 won it for me that's why I bought one my brother still has his M3 Coupe even he admits the C63 was the better car for 90% of the time but for the days when you really wanted to get on it then I had to concedes the M3 was the better car.

Running cost wise the C63 was easier on components but worse on fuel but the grin the C63 put on my face just on start up was worth it for me, make sure you get one with the Diff, carbon ceramics aren't a must.

It depends on what you're going to use the car for.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Tuesday 1st December 08:39

williamp

19,213 posts

272 months

Monday 30th November 2015
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How about an XFR.?

510bhp.. free strap-on hairy chest..


jamieduff1981

8,022 posts

139 months

Monday 30th November 2015
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XFR is a class size bigger - an M5 / E63 competitor.

The Lexus IS-F is firmly in this bracket though. I've thrashed one about. It was pretty good.

Hangcheck

176 posts

121 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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I can only comment on the C63 and have only had it for a week. I chose it over the others as there was no M3 estate and I didn't fancy 4WD so the other two were out.

If you want to leave quietly then it's not for you. The exhaust does a loud bark and then crackles for about 20 secs. I love it but leaving early a couple of times in the last few days has made me feel a bit neighbour-conscious. It's reasonably quiet yet has a deep rumble when not on it. Rev it out through a tunnel and it'll make you laugh.

If you liked the Subaru for 4WD you'll hate it too. Currently in this weather any amount of non-gentle throttle = snaking around, it'll snap to the road camber when booting too (Performance Pack, LSD and 19" wheels). MPG is about 17 around town and 23/24 on a motorway run with some traffic.

Regarding comfort it handles bumps better than the S-Line A4 I was using before and yet is flat around corners. I've done about 1000 miles already and have always got out feeling perfectly relaxed. The gearbox is good (it's the facelift one so is not the same as the ones in the 20-25k bracket) in auto mode and seems fine in manual. It's not an instant change which if you've come from a manual may put you off.

Regarding costs - Merc dealers were doing a deal last weekend of 2 years warranty and two years servicing which would make it easier to swallow. The warranty is £800 a year and servicing about £900 over two years.

Makes me smile every time I'm near it.

Edited by Hangcheck on Tuesday 1st December 07:32

ColdoRS

1,796 posts

126 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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I've posted my opinions on similar what car quandaries a few times now so apologies if anyone's fed up reading! However, I had the same decision to make 2 and a bit years ago now... test drove the RS4 and the M3 and the decision was made. Owned my Sprint Blue RS4 Saloon since.

At the time C63s were pushing my budget although i did consider them, never drove one but I do love the look of the coupe's and the noise is fantastic too.

The reason i went for the RS4 over the M3, aside from much better looks, was mostly down to the interior... RS4 interior is excellent, lots of leather, carbon fibre, bucket seats, central armrest, front and rear heated seats. M3... well... i may aswell have been sat in a 320d... dull as dishwater, nothing to shout M-Car at you at all.

Pace wise - My best mate has an M3 and theres nothing in it in my opinion although we've not done extensive testing on a track.
Looks wise - E90 M3 doesn't look better than a B7 RS4....
Bork factor - Yeah i think RS4 is more expensive to run and more likely to sting you. Mine has been good (touches wood). I've done a clutch, flywheel and discs and pads to the tune of 4.5k, other than regular servicing and MOTs and lots of fuel, it hasn't needed anything else spending. I have done some mods but none essential.
Noise - RS4 sounds great with flaps open and centre resonator deleted, M3 sounds ace with it's own exhaust mod too.
Residuals - M3s are still coming down where as i believe the RS4 to have flatlined somewhat. Maybe only temporarily but in the 2+ years i've owned it, i'm confident i could get back what i paid.
Economy - 18mpg average over the 11k miles i''ve driven. I've seen 27.5mpg on a 550mile motorway run.
Image(if you care) - I rarely see another B7 RS4 but pass 500 M3's every day, don't think many people give a standard looking M3 a second glance however i do feel like the RS4 'turns heads' if i can be so crass. Not the reason i wanted it but it is nice to see your car being appreciated.

Anything else you want to know regarding the RS4 let me know.

Whitean3

2,182 posts

197 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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My view will also be biased, as I have a B7 RS4 Avant for a year now- it replaced a 911 as I needed something more family friendly.
All 3 cars- M3, C63 and RS4 are great cars; however, I wanted an estate and most importantly of all, a manual gearbox. Having 4WD is also useful given that I live in Switzerland and have frequent travels into the Alps.

So my choice was made for me; during my searches I also looked at the C63; but prices are a lot higher for these. I never really considered the M3 as most for sale here are coupes and/or SMG autos.

Very very happy with my choice; I don't relish the prospect of replacing the RS4 with something newer as this will almost certainly mean an auto box.

I do think running costs will be high for all 3; the Merc probably the most reliable and solid. I know there are a lot of issues with the RS4, but touch wood, mine has been ok so far. Do not ever think about fuel economy, especially if you do a lot of urban driving. If economy worries you, look elsewhere!

As others have said, if you are open minded about which one to have, you really need to drive them to see what floats your boat. I expect that you would instantly favour one over all the others.

walm

10,609 posts

201 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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ColdoRS said:
The reason i went for the RS4 over the M3, aside from much better looks, was mostly down to the interior... RS4 interior is excellent, lots of leather, carbon fibre, bucket seats, central armrest, front and rear heated seats. M3... well... i may aswell have been sat in a 320d... dull as dishwater, nothing to shout M-Car at you at all.
I had the opposite view!
I owned an '05 A4 S-line and the interior of the RS4 felt almost exactly the same (although admittedly might be different with the Recaro buckets, if you can find them).
Perhaps I have more extras than I realise but the interior of the M3 is covered in carbon and has a leather central arm rest as well as really very good memory seats.
iDrive feels fancy and the Logic7 stereo is blinding.
I do hate the M3 gearstick though - could be half the length!

On borkage - while the RS4 has the coking and suspension issues, you probably WILL have to pay for throttle actuators on the M3. At what... £1,000 potentially x2?

On the exterior the M3 just feels a little more modern since essentially the same car was sold through 2013 but the RS4 stopped in 2008.
Although they are both essentially Q-cars anyway.

I have been following pricing very closely and the RS4 appears to have almost ZERO depreciation while the M3 is still going down, something like £1.5-2k per annum depending on mileage.
I do wonder what will happen as the B8 drops into the £20Ks though - for an extra £10k(or less) you can get a 5 year younger car these days!
I have to admit I am getting close to needing an estate and for that reason alone I am going to keep the M3 as long as possible in the hope of jumping to a B8. A B7 would feel like a step back I think...

ensignia

919 posts

234 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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The 4.2 V8 in the RS4 is one of the all time greats. Sounds better than rivals too, engine noise is just as important as exhaust noise for me.

Prices of the RS4 have remained high, they haven't seemed to change much from when I was looking 3 years ago.

If it wasn't so hard to find a good Sprint Blue I'd already have one, but bought an S5 instead. Now looking at replacing it with a C63 purely for the sense of occasion.

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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Isn't this supposed to be a website for car and driving enthusiasts?

The M3 is far better dynamically than either of the others and has the most exciting engine by a country mile. The only reason to go for the others is if you want an estate.

The C63 is a slush auto only, FFS! Not even an option.

walm

10,609 posts

201 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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ORD said:
The M3 is far better dynamically than either of the others and has the most exciting engine by a country mile.
A country mile better than the engine they put in the original R8?

SuperVM

1,098 posts

160 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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With two young kids, a car I'd love to own is a C63 estate. After that I'd probably take an IS-F over the other options, as I think it is a bit different and also from what I've read the running costs are significantly lower than the other cars. For some reason, I don't really fancy a B7 RS4 Avant, I've had a B5 which was great, but not particularly exciting.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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I've had a decent drive in the Audi and I must confess I don't know what the fuss is all about. It felt slow, barely sounded like a V8 and the handling was steady but dull. I'm not for one second saying it was a bad car, but to me it didn't feel substantially different from the lesser A4 models - everything that I liked about it would be present in a well specced 2.0TDi. I posted on PH at the time asking whether the car I drove was broken (approved used at an Audi dealer) and was told the lack of performance was fairly normal due to coking issues and 4WD drivetrain losses. To me it felt 330i fast and certainly not M3 fast. I'm not denying it's the easiest for numpties to drive fast on days like today and if that's what you want from a car then that's great, but it's a long way from what I would call a driver's car or in any way interesting.

The M3 I've had quite a nice long drive in (E92, not E90) and I really liked it. The performance is strong - not scary fast, but enough for most people on the road. The handling very neat and fluid, although it can't escape from its 1600kg+ kerb weight and it ultimately feels heavier than a lesser spec 3 series, although the suspension and rear diff are a world apart from your average '3'. The engine is a lovely thing - a high revving V8 producing 400bhp - what's not to like? I'm fairly sure it's the best four seater I've ever driven.

The C63 I haven't really had enough experience of to comment, but the engine sounds glorious, the interior nicely styled and the handling neat enough. It's only available with a torque converter auto, which is a bit annoying, but it's a good choice and well worth a look. At low speed it probably feels the most special of the three due to the engine note.

Picking up from that last note though, personally I'm not a huge fan of super saloons. If you do the maths on the running costs compared to a lesser model (A4 3.0i, 330i, C350), then they cost a lot more to run, whilst feeling the same most of the time (especially on the motorway), in fact noisier due to the big tyres. Personally I'd always plump for a lesser model of saloon in a good spec and spend the savings, in purchase price and running costs, on a dedicated sports car.

So for those who love driving I'd put the M3 first, C63 second and RS4 last; but I'd highly recommend getting a calculator out and the PH classifieds and investigating a two car option. For those who love easy performance, looks or image I can't comment, as those aren't areas I understand.

scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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If you want RWD, the W204 chassis is the equal of the BMW and it easily has the most exciting engine of all three IMO. RS4 as a second choice, even though it would probably do the job of an all-rounder better than the C.


Hangcheck

176 posts

121 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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RobM77 said:
PIf you do the maths on the running costs compared to a lesser model (A4 3.0i, 330i, C350), then they cost a lot more to run, whilst feeling the same most of the time (especially on the motorway), in fact noisier due to the big tyres. Personally I'd always plump for a lesser model of saloon in a good spec and spend the savings, in purchase price and running costs, on a dedicated sports car.
I'm not denying the running costs part of that quote but as for tyre noise I've found mine is quieter than the B7 A4 which was on 18" wheels that I had before on the motorway. That's even on the most rubbish bits of the M25 with the concrete sections.

The gearbox is not as involving as a manual sure but I'm using it as a daily and so most of the time it's sat in C anyway. Putting it in S+ or manual is a novelty for me as it's my first auto with paddles, maybe I'll miss a manual but I've appreciated the easiness of stop-start driving. As you say get a weekend car or a I've got a bike that I can get the involvement from.

SturdyHSV

10,083 posts

166 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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SirSamuelBuca said:
m3 with a simple exhaust mod sounds better than the c63
By simple exhaust mod do you mean removing it from the cats back? As although I agree this did make it sound a lot better, it also made the entire cabin resonate at about 2,000 rpm which was inconvenient.

In my humble opinion the standard back box mod of removing the material and replacing the perforated pipes with straight pipe still doesn't bring it onto the same playing field as a standard C63. They just sound cloud9

Personally I'd go for the C63, even though there's no manual option.

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Tuesday 1st December 2015
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Hangcheck said:
RobM77 said:
PIf you do the maths on the running costs compared to a lesser model (A4 3.0i, 330i, C350), then they cost a lot more to run, whilst feeling the same most of the time (especially on the motorway), in fact noisier due to the big tyres. Personally I'd always plump for a lesser model of saloon in a good spec and spend the savings, in purchase price and running costs, on a dedicated sports car.
I'm not denying the running costs part of that quote but as for tyre noise I've found mine is quieter than the B7 A4 which was on 18" wheels that I had before on the motorway. That's even on the most rubbish bits of the M25 with the concrete sections.

The gearbox is not as involving as a manual sure but I'm using it as a daily and so most of the time it's sat in C anyway. Putting it in S+ or manual is a novelty for me as it's my first auto with paddles, maybe I'll miss a manual but I've appreciated the easiness of stop-start driving. As you say get a weekend car or a I've got a bike that I can get the involvement from.
If you're running a bike and a super saloon then that's fantastic! smile