RE: Honda NSX: PH Heroes

[Shnozz]

Mike Duff said:

Good point, but I was comparing the later car to the equivalent 996. Should have made that clearer though...

Ah, fair enough. Quite remarkable to think that the 964 was in fact the current model when the first NSX was launched and that looks positively ancient compared to the NSX.

When did the 996 launch? 97? Just shows how few years the lovely shape of the 993 was actually in production.

[Black S2K]

Good review! Explains well why it's still a good (or even better?) drive today.

Few reviewers mention that 90-degree V6 idle vibration, which vibrates the steering column in a way I find strangely charming.

[405dogvan]

I'm not really convinced the car was 'ahead of it's time' - it was different from it's competitors but it failed to sell and there were reasons for that.

I've driven 2 NSXs and even tho I like Japanese cars of the period, I didn't really like them. As a roadcar it felt - well - not that quick and not as nimble as I expected. It's not a big car but it doesn't feel small from the driver's seat either. The engine is 'all or nothing' and I get 'all or nothing' cars usually but this felt far-too 'on off' to enjoy.

I think a lot of the NSX love is a bit like Hachi-Roku love, when you drive a stock one you'll wonder WTF people are smoking. Throw money and you can make something nicer - in the case of the AE86 it needs to be a LOT of money and you get Triggers Broom wheras the NSX probably just needs a few tweaks (the brakes in the earlier car I drove were shockingly st)

Money aside, if you offered me the keys to a tidy/working NSX or a 300ZX TT or a 2800 Celica Supra I'd take them in that order (least to most) because I think the latter cars are more honest and defined a type of car Japan excelled at (and 300ZXs take a nice LS swap!!) - maybe I just prefer a bruiser ;0

Controversial perhaps and based on just 2 cars and relatively short (1-2 hour) drives - maybe I just missed the VTEC button ;0

[EskimoArapaho]

Re the data summary at the end: there's not much chance of a 3.2 NSX for £40k. (Unless it's Cat A/B/C/D like the Honda Cat C car.)

Mark Wibble said:

Are the comments on the auto box entirely fair? Agreed it may not stand up to latest auto boxes or dual-clutches these days, but was it not the best of its type at the time? I certainly remember a what-would-you-buy-for-the-cost-of-a-McLaren-F1 article (Car or Autocar) and the author included both a manual and auto NSX. My hardly-exhaustive comparison is a circa 90s Civic auto within the same era, best auto box I drove for many years- by todays standards I suppose it was clunky, but at the time it was well-tuned and nicely predictable.

That would have been the incomparable Setright, and he was going to spend some of the rest on a 4ws Prelude (and some Bristol or other). Hmmm... maybe LJKS was the first ever Honda fanboi?

[Ten Four]

You need to live with an NSX for a week or two, ideally a month or two to "get it" imo.
Definitely not the fastest cars, its just how it makes you feel when you're out there, no one around and driving at your own pace. Its so smooth and refined. To me, it feels "German" to an extent - not Japanese as its so solidly built, planted and just feels stable all of the time. I love how the electric assisted steering turns off after 60kmh in my 93 manual - the steering feel is amazing on good roads yet its still easy to drive around town and to park.

I love the unbroken stitching line from the centre console, up the dash and around down the door trims past the air vents; which open out of their slot and click into place at maximum adjustment. The silly third middle sun visor is another silly little thing I appreciate, as well as the 3 way split centre console. Final deserved mention: cruise control.

The Bose sound system sounds fantastic with the windows up; horrible windows down imo.
Its useful with a good sized boot, usable fuel economy and reliability. I just don't like leaving it anywhere in fear of inconsiderate people.

I met an owner not long ago who bought his NA2 (97 Targa) new (in Australia.. AUD 220k retail). He stated he wanted something comfortable, usable, reliable and practical.
Didn't like 911s - didn't find the Ferrari (355?) comfortable, thought the Diablo was useless to drive around in and had horrible inputs.
NSX - he can fit (taller bloke) with lots of room to spare (targa specific?), easy yet direct inputs and that he could fit his golf bag easily in the boot.

Mine's the black coupe and the above owner's car is the yellow one.

Edited by Ten Four on Thursday 17th December 16:41

[BarbaricAvatar]

One of my dream cars.

Original NSX-R in white for me please.

[havoc]

405dogvan said:

I'm not really convinced the car was 'ahead of it's time' - it was different from it's competitors but it failed to sell and there were reasons for that.

...The engine is 'all or nothing' and I get 'all or nothing' cars usually but this felt far-too 'on off' to enjoy.

I think a lot of the NSX love is a bit like Hachi-Roku love, when you drive a stock one you'll wonder WTF people are smoking.

Controversial perhaps and based on just 2 cars and relatively short (1-2 hour) drives - maybe I just missed the VTEC button ;0

The engineering/construction/ergonomics of the car were definitely ahead of their time, most particularly for low-volume supercars/sportscars. Compare to even 993/355, let alone 964/348 and it's just silly.

The engine - think you got a duff one, OR you're completely used to turbos and big V8s - the engine is superior in reach, breadth and refinement to anything of comparable capacity this side of a Mezger flat-6 (and even there it's a tough call). 355 lump more characterful/charismatic and more powerful, but apparently not by as much as the stats would suggest...and of course that engine needs more TLC and is even peakier...

Third para - I see why you say that, and I have a little sympathy for the perspective...as already mentioned the car is one that grows on you, but in some ways it does feel its' years now. Objectively there's little the NSX does that e.g. a 987 Cayman-S with a sports exhausst doesn't do, except maybe feel more special. Then again, is being on-par with arguably the best modern real-world sportscar* a particularly bad place to be?!?

[RobM77]

I must admit I haven't found the NSX to be a grower for me. My first experience was 5 or 6 laps in a 3.2 mk2 back in about 2002 when I was in my Caterham at a Honda sponsored track day. I got straight out of the Caterham into the NSX (a big ask for any car to be compared directly to a 7 on track), and did the laps flat out from the start. I can't recall ever being so impressed with a car's handling. I was surprised to hear criticism from Tiff Needell and others, but perhaps things improved for the mk2, because I was right up on tip toes in it straight away, including some sideways and it was utterly stunning - just such a smooth transition through slip angles and such a friendly demeanour. I've since got to know someone who has a mk1 (a rather tatty one I must admit) and have travelled a lot in it on the road and it's always impressed me hugely with its comfort and ease of use in that environment too. An utter work of genius, added to by those McLaren figures I mentioned earlier.

I must also disagree with those people criticising the NSX's styling. This is totally subjective of course, but personally I find both the mk1 and mk2 timeless and the NSX is one of my all time favourite looking cars. I like subtle athletic beauty in a car and hate showiness, and the NSX is certainly in my top 5 favourite car designs, along with cars like the Mclaren F1. I particularly like the way the cockpit sits 'on' the car, like a fighter jet, and the view this gives from inside is wonderful. The Pagani Zonda does this too.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 17th December 17:30

[405dogvan]

havoc said:

405dogvan said:

I'm not really convinced the car was 'ahead of it's time' - it was different from it's competitors but it failed to sell and there were reasons for that.

...The engine is 'all or nothing' and I get 'all or nothing' cars usually but this felt far-too 'on off' to enjoy.

I think a lot of the NSX love is a bit like Hachi-Roku love, when you drive a stock one you'll wonder WTF people are smoking.

Controversial perhaps and based on just 2 cars and relatively short (1-2 hour) drives - maybe I just missed the VTEC button ;0

The engineering/construction/ergonomics of the car were definitely ahead of their time, most particularly for low-volume supercars/sportscars. Compare to even 993/355, let alone 964/348 and it's just silly.

The engine - think you got a duff one, OR you're completely used to turbos and big V8s - the engine is superior in reach, breadth and refinement to anything of comparable capacity this side of a Mezger flat-6 (and even there it's a tough call). 355 lump more characterful/charismatic and more powerful, but apparently not by as much as the stats would suggest...and of course that engine needs more TLC and is even peakier...

Third para - I see why you say that, and I have a little sympathy for the perspective...as already mentioned the car is one that grows on you, but in some ways it does feel its' years now. Objectively there's little the NSX does that e.g. a 987 Cayman-S with a sports exhausst doesn't do, except maybe feel more special. Then again, is being on-par with arguably the best modern real-world sportscar* a particularly bad place to be?!?

The manual I drove (this would be 2000ish) felt wheezy (the knackered brakes probably pointed to lack of maintenance) and I've owned/driven enough Honda VTECs to know it wasn't on-form (it was working but it just didn't punch that hard) but I did think the package around it might carry it and make me want to adopt it and fettle it but - well - it just didn't feel like a special car (and even at the prices then it needed to be a BIT special)

I think the expectations you have of a 2 seater mid-engined car can be hard to reach and I reckon a well sorted one would be a nice thing to drive in the right places (probably not British B Roads) - I couldn't ever see one being a practical daily tho, too much compromise, not enough bada-boom to counter that and then there's the decades which have passed in which cars have really sussed it's formula and - indeed - moved it on.

Edited by 405dogvan on Thursday 17th December 17:59

[Black S2K]

EskimoArapaho said:

Re the data summary at the end: there's not much chance of a 3.2 NSX for £40k. (Unless it's Cat A/B/C/D like the Honda Cat C car.)

Mark Wibble said:

Are the comments on the auto box entirely fair? Agreed it may not stand up to latest auto boxes or dual-clutches these days, but was it not the best of its type at the time? I certainly remember a what-would-you-buy-for-the-cost-of-a-McLaren-F1 article (Car or Autocar) and the author included both a manual and auto NSX. My hardly-exhaustive comparison is a circa 90s Civic auto within the same era, best auto box I drove for many years- by todays standards I suppose it was clunky, but at the time it was well-tuned and nicely predictable.

That would have been the incomparable Setright, and he was going to spend some of the rest on a 4ws Prelude (and some Bristol or other). Hmmm... maybe LJKS was the first ever Honda fanboi?

It was a Blenheim, a 540K, a LCC Rocket. And of course, an RC45.

It was probably definitely Long John Kick Start's preachings that got me radicalised, too!

[DUNNERS]

BarbaricAvatar said:

One of my dream cars.

Original NSX-R in white for me please.

My dream car also – in black with red Recaros and carbon interior.

I've owned four examples of the car that sits to it's right. There is something about the 'Type R's' of that era (90's) that Honda got so fabulously 'right'.

A worthy PH Hero.

[MB 1]

Stopped reading at the point Senna was mentioned.

Why does every NSX article (and there are hundreds) have to mention what we already know?! Give it a rest! Would be far more credible of for a change, it just wasnt mentioned... At least it was brief in this one!

Edited by MB 1 on Thursday 17th December 18:19

[RobM77]

405dogvan said:

havoc said:

405dogvan said:

I'm not really convinced the car was 'ahead of it's time' - it was different from it's competitors but it failed to sell and there were reasons for that.

...The engine is 'all or nothing' and I get 'all or nothing' cars usually but this felt far-too 'on off' to enjoy.

I think a lot of the NSX love is a bit like Hachi-Roku love, when you drive a stock one you'll wonder WTF people are smoking.

Controversial perhaps and based on just 2 cars and relatively short (1-2 hour) drives - maybe I just missed the VTEC button ;0

The engineering/construction/ergonomics of the car were definitely ahead of their time, most particularly for low-volume supercars/sportscars. Compare to even 993/355, let alone 964/348 and it's just silly.

The engine - think you got a duff one, OR you're completely used to turbos and big V8s - the engine is superior in reach, breadth and refinement to anything of comparable capacity this side of a Mezger flat-6 (and even there it's a tough call). 355 lump more characterful/charismatic and more powerful, but apparently not by as much as the stats would suggest...and of course that engine needs more TLC and is even peakier...

Third para - I see why you say that, and I have a little sympathy for the perspective...as already mentioned the car is one that grows on you, but in some ways it does feel its' years now. Objectively there's little the NSX does that e.g. a 987 Cayman-S with a sports exhausst doesn't do, except maybe feel more special. Then again, is being on-par with arguably the best modern real-world sportscar* a particularly bad place to be?!?

The manual I drove (this would be 2000ish) felt wheezy (the knackered brakes probably pointed to lack of maintenance) and I've owned/driven enough Honda VTECs to know it wasn't on-form (it was working but it just didn't punch that hard) but I did think the package around it might carry it and make me want to adopt it and fettle it but - well - it just didn't feel like a special car (and even at the prices then it needed to be a BIT special)

I think the expectations you have of a 2 seater mid-engined car can be hard to reach and I reckon a well sorted one would be a nice thing to drive in the right places (probably not British B Roads) - I couldn't ever see one being a practical daily tho, too much compromise, not enough bada-boom to counter that and then there's the decades which have passed in which cars have really sussed it's formula and - indeed - moved it on.

Edited by 405dogvan on Thursday 17th December 17:59

I do know what you mean; the NSX isn't one of those cars that feels special when driving around normally, although I would argue that was the whole point of it: it had these amazing abilities to handle like (or better than) the best supercars, but you could drive it to work and back like a Civic without it constantly reminding you (and passers by) that you were in an expensive high performance mid engined sports car. That didn't necessarily suit everyone, but personally I rather like its understated but capable manner - a bit like James Bond compared to Rambo.

[macky17]

LarJammer said:

Gratuitous shot of my baby -



I would agree with most of the article but i find the stereo one of the best ive ever experienced, having a cassette player is irrelavent. Its also worth googling some gordon murray nsx quotes, he has a lot of praise for it.

Ok I'll make the predictable joke:

Ahem... is an nsx in that picture??



Really wish I'd bought one of these five years ago when I had the chance. Never did drive one though but I've owned many type-rs and just know I would love it. Timeless outside from where I'm sitting.

[stephen300o]

Some here are writing 'dated' as if it was a bad thing. It is an example of a great car of its period. Like the Ferrari SWB was a great car of its vintage. It does not need to compete with modern cars, and certainly cannot, it is loved for the charm of being the peak of its time.

[Malachimon]

The NSX is by far the most underrated car of all time, right up there with the MGC, Smart Roadster, Chrysler Crossfire and a few others.

If it was a food, it would be Pesto.
If it was a drink, it would be Water.
If it was a sport, it would be Boxing.
If it was a type of weather, it would be Windless-rain.
If it was a piece of music, it would be Vicetone California.
If it was a Theme park ride, it would be dinsey Alien Encounter.
If it was a comedian, it would be Rondell Sherriden.
If it was a movie, it would be Kung Fu Panda 2.
If it was a TV show, it would be Samurai Jack.
If it was a YouTube star, it would be Daz Games.

You get the idea, people either don't know anything about it, don't care about it, or just ignore it and prefer inferior rivals (ahem-911). It deserves respect and the new one will not be anywhere near as good as the last of the old generation.

[mjames75]

A perfect drivers car. I have 3. One on 158k miles.original clutch, box and engine.Elgineering at its best. I know a few collectors of some nice toys....amongst them an NSX and it remains unsold and tucked away for good.Its a very special car. Anyone local t surrey drop me a pm and i'll happily take you out in it. The noise inside the cockpit is out of this world

[Black S2K]

I'd argue that it was once seriously underrated by a lot of the press over here, obsessed as they were with certain Euro premium brands.

It's actually in danger now of becoming over-hyped like so many of those European products are.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Black S2K said:

That's a useful picture because it highlights the humungous rear overhang - not really appropriate for a mid-engined sportscar.

[stephen300o]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Black S2K said:

That's a useful picture because it highlights the humungous rear overhang - not really appropriate for a mid-engined sportscar.

No idea why you'd think rear over hang had anything to do with anything other than boot space and stability.