Bought a rot box, how much to fix?
Discussion
Alex_225 said:
Blue Oval84 said:
Any advice appreciated but please don't anyone say to scrap the car, I appreciate that the sensible thing to do would be to sell it on ebay for parts and use the money as a deposit on a diesel Golf lease. However, I want an ST200, and this one is actually lovely up top, the interior is spotless and well looked after, history is good etc. I can't see any point in selling it for scrap to then try and buy another and probably end up with the same problems, especially as I believe there are only about Limiteds 100 left in the UK...
I'm afraid I can't give you advice on costs or what's involved in the repairs but all I can say is DON'T scrap it! 
Too many cars are given up on because of costs where as if you love a car enough you'll get it fixed regardless. Too many people refuse to repair a car because of a costly repair and I dread to think how many cars, now classics that have been scrapped because of it.
Sounds like this one is worth saving
I have to say, all this advice on the thread is absoutely mental.
Its not a rare, or particularly special car. If you get 5 years out of it before it *actually* becomes uneconomic to repair, then it will have done its job, paid its way and been fine.
Virtually none of the rust you have mentioned is actually structural or a real problem.
Get some ramps, get the car up in the air and put a wirebrush on a drill and get all the rust off. Use fertan to treat the remaining metal, fill the non structural holes with fibreglass sheets/filler.
For the structural stuff, Go to the local adult education centre and learn to MIG weld. Get a welder and cat out the bad parts and weld plates in. Yes they will rust out eventually, but you should be able to get another 5 years out of it easy. The standard of welding required to pass an MOT is very, very low.
All this talk of 4 figure bills to restore the car in a pristine state and scrapping the car and making out its some sort of historically important classic that needs to be saved for future generations is crazy talk. Get a grip man its a bloody Ford saloon not a gullwing Merc !
Its not a rare, or particularly special car. If you get 5 years out of it before it *actually* becomes uneconomic to repair, then it will have done its job, paid its way and been fine.
Virtually none of the rust you have mentioned is actually structural or a real problem.
Get some ramps, get the car up in the air and put a wirebrush on a drill and get all the rust off. Use fertan to treat the remaining metal, fill the non structural holes with fibreglass sheets/filler.
For the structural stuff, Go to the local adult education centre and learn to MIG weld. Get a welder and cat out the bad parts and weld plates in. Yes they will rust out eventually, but you should be able to get another 5 years out of it easy. The standard of welding required to pass an MOT is very, very low.
All this talk of 4 figure bills to restore the car in a pristine state and scrapping the car and making out its some sort of historically important classic that needs to be saved for future generations is crazy talk. Get a grip man its a bloody Ford saloon not a gullwing Merc !
Alex_225 said:
swisstoni said:
Good of you to offer.
I didn't realise PH was now a charity?! haha 
The thing is, it's a bit of a 'big ask' for the OP to spend 3x what this car is worth to get it sorted. If it was The Flying Scotsman or HMS Victory then the nation might be grateful. A rare trim level Mondeo, not so much.
Thanks for the continued support, but I'm afraid it's fate is sealed, the bill escalated north of £3.5K and I can buy one in better condition for under £2.5K.
As for learning to MIG weld, that would be awesome, but it's my daily driver, I work full time, and live in a flat with no garage. It's never going to happen. Upon pulling the carpet up I can see the road through the floor, maybe I'm just over-sensitive but that doesn't feel safe to me so it's a job that really needs doing quickly!
Anyway, moving things up a couple of generations I have been googling the MK4 with the 2.5T Volvo engine and I like what I see, big returns from a remap, and I can buy one for about the same price as fixing the ST...
Until I have a driveway, and room for a second car, I think I may be done with older "classics". The whole experience has been just too painful!
As for learning to MIG weld, that would be awesome, but it's my daily driver, I work full time, and live in a flat with no garage. It's never going to happen. Upon pulling the carpet up I can see the road through the floor, maybe I'm just over-sensitive but that doesn't feel safe to me so it's a job that really needs doing quickly!
Anyway, moving things up a couple of generations I have been googling the MK4 with the 2.5T Volvo engine and I like what I see, big returns from a remap, and I can buy one for about the same price as fixing the ST...
Until I have a driveway, and room for a second car, I think I may be done with older "classics". The whole experience has been just too painful!
Blue Oval84 said:
Thanks for the continued support, but I'm afraid it's fate is sealed, the bill escalated north of £3.5K and I can buy one in better condition for under £2.5K.
As for learning to MIG weld, that would be awesome, but it's my daily driver, I work full time, and live in a flat with no garage. It's never going to happen. Upon pulling the carpet up I can see the road through the floor, maybe I'm just over-sensitive but that doesn't feel safe to me so it's a job that really needs doing quickly!
Anyway, moving things up a couple of generations I have been googling the MK4 with the 2.5T Volvo engine and I like what I see, big returns from a remap, and I can buy one for about the same price as fixing the ST...
Until I have a driveway, and room for a second car, I think I may be done with older "classics". The whole experience has been just too painful!
I assume that this is the price to cut out old metal and fit in new fabrications exactly in place? Why not go the cheaper patch route for now and see how things pan out over time. I cant imagine me rough cut and patches will be anywhere close to 3.5k.As for learning to MIG weld, that would be awesome, but it's my daily driver, I work full time, and live in a flat with no garage. It's never going to happen. Upon pulling the carpet up I can see the road through the floor, maybe I'm just over-sensitive but that doesn't feel safe to me so it's a job that really needs doing quickly!
Anyway, moving things up a couple of generations I have been googling the MK4 with the 2.5T Volvo engine and I like what I see, big returns from a remap, and I can buy one for about the same price as fixing the ST...
Until I have a driveway, and room for a second car, I think I may be done with older "classics". The whole experience has been just too painful!
Basically, you need something strong and legal. It does not have to be an oil painting underneath, who is gonna be looking under except you and a mechanic? Seriously, it sounds as if your thoughts are being railroaded to the ideal and expensive solution rather than a safe and affordable solution.
Get a quote for a "safe" job from somewhere else. I reckon you could be pleasantly surprised and get to spend some considerable time with your car before it becomes an uneconomical challenge to get through an MOT.
Honestly I'm out of love with it now, even a cheap patch job (by far the cheapest I got quoted) was £800 and that was before I found the hole in the floor which means additional expense, then there's £1,000 - £1,500 worth of mechanicals. I don't really want the cheap job on the arches etc either because frankly I know what I'm like, if the paint is less than perfect it'll annoy the hell out of me every time I see it.
Also, the patch job quote opened with "obviously that bodykit may not go back on properly afterwards and they sometimes break when we pull them off, that ok?". No it f
king isn't actually.
The bodyshop who were going to do it (until I found the holes in the floor pan) told me that in their opinion the car isn't worth the expense and I'd be better off buying a new one!
ETA - my bodywork bill was originally £2K for new sills, arches, patched spare wheel well, and a respray down to the front doors. It's the mechanicals that bumped me up to £3.5K.
Also, the patch job quote opened with "obviously that bodykit may not go back on properly afterwards and they sometimes break when we pull them off, that ok?". No it f
king isn't actually.The bodyshop who were going to do it (until I found the holes in the floor pan) told me that in their opinion the car isn't worth the expense and I'd be better off buying a new one!
ETA - my bodywork bill was originally £2K for new sills, arches, patched spare wheel well, and a respray down to the front doors. It's the mechanicals that bumped me up to £3.5K.
OK I thought it's only fair that I give an update to this thread as things haven't turned out how I thought they would at all....
Not long after my last update my best mates essentially cornered me in a pincer movement whilst I was in the pub one night, they had a well rehearsed argument that it would be silly to sell up (for buttons) after spending so much on a car that I had always wanted.
They suggested another garage that they thought could weld the car to a decent standard underneath (albeit hardly concourse), and get the bulk of the mechanical work done as cheaply as humanly possible. They explained that I shouldn't expect to get my car perfect but could have a fun year or two from it if I just accepted the slightly rusty arches and focused on getting it running right and MOT'd.
I'd had a couple, so their argument seemed to make sense (let this be a lesson kids)
Upshot is that I ended up getting a batch of work done to sort out the worst of the issues, and am slowly falling back in love with the car. I've never had a car that has attracted any comments, questions or admiration in public from strangers or even colleagues before, but it's happened three or four times recently, and I like it.
There's still a little bit of stuff left to do to resolve a misfire and EGR fault code that I think are related, but I think I'm on course to get a year or two from her at least (I bloody need to now).
The only BIG mistake I've made (other than buying it in the first place) was to take one of the same friends shopping for a new head unit. I went in thinking of a cheap upgrade and some basic door speakers, I walked out of the shop with a quote for a £2K audio install and my ears ringing from the highest fidelity sound system I've ever heard. The demo was absolutely mind blowing, and it even retains my OEM unit. I have to have it, although I'm not doing anything until the car is running spot on.
So, it makes no sense, but I guess these poor decisions come with being a true petrolhead?
Maybe it's time to start a thread in readers cars as I don't feel right continuing to update a thread that has "rotbox" in the title lol. Thanks for bearing with me and all the moral support.
Not long after my last update my best mates essentially cornered me in a pincer movement whilst I was in the pub one night, they had a well rehearsed argument that it would be silly to sell up (for buttons) after spending so much on a car that I had always wanted.
They suggested another garage that they thought could weld the car to a decent standard underneath (albeit hardly concourse), and get the bulk of the mechanical work done as cheaply as humanly possible. They explained that I shouldn't expect to get my car perfect but could have a fun year or two from it if I just accepted the slightly rusty arches and focused on getting it running right and MOT'd.
I'd had a couple, so their argument seemed to make sense (let this be a lesson kids)
Upshot is that I ended up getting a batch of work done to sort out the worst of the issues, and am slowly falling back in love with the car. I've never had a car that has attracted any comments, questions or admiration in public from strangers or even colleagues before, but it's happened three or four times recently, and I like it.
There's still a little bit of stuff left to do to resolve a misfire and EGR fault code that I think are related, but I think I'm on course to get a year or two from her at least (I bloody need to now).
The only BIG mistake I've made (other than buying it in the first place) was to take one of the same friends shopping for a new head unit. I went in thinking of a cheap upgrade and some basic door speakers, I walked out of the shop with a quote for a £2K audio install and my ears ringing from the highest fidelity sound system I've ever heard. The demo was absolutely mind blowing, and it even retains my OEM unit. I have to have it, although I'm not doing anything until the car is running spot on.
So, it makes no sense, but I guess these poor decisions come with being a true petrolhead?
Maybe it's time to start a thread in readers cars as I don't feel right continuing to update a thread that has "rotbox" in the title lol. Thanks for bearing with me and all the moral support.
Blue Oval84 said:
The only BIG mistake I've made (other than buying it in the first place) was to take one of the same friends shopping for a new head unit. I went in thinking of a cheap upgrade and some basic door speakers, I walked out of the shop with a quote for a £2K audio install and my ears ringing from the highest fidelity sound system I've ever heard. The demo was absolutely mind blowing, and it even retains my OEM unit. I have to have it, although I'm not doing anything until the car is running spot on.
Good. You've got time to sober up...You walked into a shop to buy a head unit (just buy online from caraudioexpress, btw) and some speakers, and walked out wanting to spend TWO GRAND on audio in a car that you expect to get a year out of? Without even changing the head unit...?!?
Is it me?
TooMany2cvs said:
Good. You've got time to sober up...
You walked into a shop to buy a head unit (just buy online from caraudioexpress, btw) and some speakers, and walked out wanting to spend TWO GRAND on audio in a car that you expect to get a year out of? Without even changing the head unit...?!?
Is it me?
You didn't hear it. I've honestly never heard audio like it in any car (or house) I've ever been in. It blows my mate's Harmon Kardon equipped Jag out of the water, completely.You walked into a shop to buy a head unit (just buy online from caraudioexpress, btw) and some speakers, and walked out wanting to spend TWO GRAND on audio in a car that you expect to get a year out of? Without even changing the head unit...?!?
Is it me?
He did say that by keeping my original head unit there would be a small difference, but nothing noticeably worse than the demo, and I'd rather keep the OEM look if I can.
I know I'm mental but the repairs are done now so I've got to get a year out of it at least, the audio upgrade will wait, but I know what I want.
As my mate put it when he was continuing to be a bad influence, the car is a hobby and it's not as though I spend money on smoking or drugs, so why not treat myself
k-ink said:
After skimming this thread it has confirmed to me what a good idea a Lotus is for a long term keeper: just aluminium and plastic, with no rusty steel issues.
Good luck, sounds like a mission.
Yep, Lotus will definitely be a good shout! I've resigned myself to the fact that ALL examples of my car now have rot to be dealt with...Good luck, sounds like a mission.
I understand, I've had extremely high end kit at home and pretty decent kit in the car. But do not instal all that in a rusty old heap. Get the car 100% A1 before even thinking about that. Otherwise you may waste a hell of a lot of time (the instal is half the battle in car audio, not just shiny boxes installed badly) and your money installing it, then possibly removing it later, if the car turns out to be too far gone.
At this stage is is like women on Grand Designs choosing a new designer sofa before they have fixed the leaking roof and subsiding foundations!
At this stage is is like women on Grand Designs choosing a new designer sofa before they have fixed the leaking roof and subsiding foundations!
Blue Oval84 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Good. You've got time to sober up...
You walked into a shop to buy a head unit (just buy online from caraudioexpress, btw) and some speakers, and walked out wanting to spend TWO GRAND on audio in a car that you expect to get a year out of? Without even changing the head unit...?!?
Is it me?
You didn't hear it.You walked into a shop to buy a head unit (just buy online from caraudioexpress, btw) and some speakers, and walked out wanting to spend TWO GRAND on audio in a car that you expect to get a year out of? Without even changing the head unit...?!?
Is it me?
Blue Oval 84 said:
I've honestly never heard audio like it in any car (or house) I've ever been in. It blows my mate's Harmon Kardon equipped Jag out of the water, completely.
Well, fine - but this is two grand that you can't spend on that car or on a replacement. And, unlike a head unit, most of that investment will be wasted when you throw this car away in a year or two.Blue Oval84 said:
As my mate put it when he was continuing to be a bad influence, the car is a hobby and it's not as though I spend money on smoking or drugs, so why not treat myself
But you're taking two grand AWAY from spending on the car, to spend on the stereo in it. Is the stereo the highest priority for this car?Edited by TooMany2cvs on Friday 18th March 13:34
TooMany2cvs said:
But you're taking two grand AWAY from spending on the car, to spend on the stereo in it. Is the stereo the highest priority for this car?
Well, £1500 is parts and £500 is labour for the installation so actually, quite a lot of it is transferable to the next car albeit there'll probably be a £600 labour charge next time to remove and refit in a new car (or a lot less if I just choose to remove the kit and not refit)Edited by TooMany2cvs on Friday 18th March 13:34
The stereo is definitely not the priority as I say, I won't buy it until the car is basically sound.
My mate may beat me to it anyway, despite him having a Logic 7 equipped M5 he's actually considering having it ripped out to replace it with this aftermarket speaker setup (he can't see me have anything nice lol)
For 2k I'd want it to work my shaft and fondle my baubles as well as give me an acoustically optimised stereo rendition of Curtis Stigers.
I strongly advise to not drop 2k turning your borderline ex scrapper into a mobile disco. If you must get some decent kit for your home, your shed, whatever. Just not the car.
I strongly advise to not drop 2k turning your borderline ex scrapper into a mobile disco. If you must get some decent kit for your home, your shed, whatever. Just not the car.
Blue Oval84 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
But you're taking two grand AWAY from spending on the car, to spend on the stereo in it. Is the stereo the highest priority for this car?
Well, £1500 is parts and £500 is labour for the installation so actually, quite a lot of it is transferable to the next car albeit there'll probably be a £600 labour charge next time to remove and refit in a new car (or a lot less if I just choose to remove the kit and not refit)Edited by TooMany2cvs on Friday 18th March 13:34
The stereo is definitely not the priority as I say, I won't buy it until the car is basically sound.
My mate may beat me to it anyway, despite him having a Logic 7 equipped M5 he's actually considering having it ripped out to replace it with this aftermarket speaker setup (he can't see me have anything nice lol)
You dont sound like a rich guy, and a £2k stero is certainly something for either somebody with a lot of disposable income, not somebody umming and aahing over a 2 grand car.
Its easy for your friends to talk you into something they are not paying for too....
Rick1.8t said:
No disrespect but you sound slightly mental... A £2K stereo system in Mondeo that is rotten and not mechanically sound, great idea!
None taken, I clearly am to have bought it in the first place, I sold an immaculate A4 Cabriolet to get it!I would say however that it's not rotten anymore, most of that stuff has been repaired just fine, and the mechanical problems seem to be on course to get fixed too
I'm far from rich, but most people with my income have far more expensive cars on finance (hell, even a new Fiesta would cost me more than double the total cost of this little project and no one would bat an eyelid at me spending money on one) so I don't see it as a huge outlay for something that is so much fun (when it works)...
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff