RE: VW Golf R vs. its own hype
Discussion
Carlique said:
Ultimately for me the R is a car which I can enjoy it's performance on an almost daily basis, in all weathers, without it biting your head off. Something that can't realistically be done in cars like the Type R/M135i/Megane RS etc.
I don't get this at all - if you mean that traction management will be far easier in the Golf, then I agree but surely a car is only as grippy as its outside front tyre irrespective of wheels driven and at least until the apex, while beyond we're in traction territory again. I drive a M135i on wet/s
tty/muddy b-road every day : it's almost too tractable despite the lack of a slippy diff. And if it gets seriously cold, just swap for winters and you have a fun all-weather car with a genuinely benign but brilliant chassis on the road. That shouldn't take anything away from the Golf, which is a very good car too but at the end of the day that I6 engine for me is the clincher. Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 22 December 22:17
SR06 said:
A poorly built mediocre performing hatchback. That's why I only kept mine for 10 months. Those that defend this car obviously haven't driven many performance cars. Not sorry to see that one go.
Never drives performance cars apparently - http://youtu.be/TtOZNp6GOxISelmer Mk6 said:
I think the Golf R is the best hatch all-round, extremely fast, frugal, well built etc. However, I think some owners think that the car is actually better than it is. It is competent.
The price now does seem to be irrelevant (with the leases) but for someone who would like to buy one outright it would be financial madness. How many owners will actually buy their car after the lease end?
There is room for all types of car. However, for me I want a hot hatch that cannot be mistaken for the bog standard version. Unfortunately, as good as they may be, Golfs, BMWs, Mercs and Audis are too bland for top money. If we actually look at the price for a moment and forget about leasing, a decent spec car cost £34k plus. I see R's on Autotrader for £36K plus. Who is going to buy one? The next generation Golf, 0-60 3.5 secs? 170 mph, but will still look the same.
long live the Golf, otherwise we would have nothing to talk about!
Extremely is very subjective, but fast it's not. That turbo requires you to rev the thing to 5.5k before anything interesting happens...then it's out if steam by 6.5k. So many times I tried to overtake only to sit there rocking forward and back in a desperate attempt to coax some extra ponies.The price now does seem to be irrelevant (with the leases) but for someone who would like to buy one outright it would be financial madness. How many owners will actually buy their car after the lease end?
There is room for all types of car. However, for me I want a hot hatch that cannot be mistaken for the bog standard version. Unfortunately, as good as they may be, Golfs, BMWs, Mercs and Audis are too bland for top money. If we actually look at the price for a moment and forget about leasing, a decent spec car cost £34k plus. I see R's on Autotrader for £36K plus. Who is going to buy one? The next generation Golf, 0-60 3.5 secs? 170 mph, but will still look the same.
long live the Golf, otherwise we would have nothing to talk about!
nickfrog said:
Carlique said:
Ultimately for me the R is a car which I can enjoy it's performance on an almost daily basis, in all weathers, without it biting your head off. Something that can't realistically be done in cars like the Type R/M135i/Megane RS etc.
I don't get this at all - if you mean that traction management will be far easier in the Golf, then I agree [b]but surely a car is only as grippy as it outside front tyre irrespective of wheels driven[/b[ and at least until the apex, while beyond we're in traction territory again. I drive a M135i on wet/stty/muddy b-road every day : it's almost too tractable to be fun despite the lack of a slippy diff. And if it gets too cold, just swap for winters and you have a fun all-weather car.And you can't see either the release or allowance of power/torque to other given wheel(s), or, braking being applied to whichever wheel was calling for it - or a combination of both - having any effect on that outside front tyre...?
That's a very rear wheel driver's POV.
tumble dryer said:
nickfrog said:
Carlique said:
Ultimately for me the R is a car which I can enjoy it's performance on an almost daily basis, in all weathers, without it biting your head off. Something that can't realistically be done in cars like the Type R/M135i/Megane RS etc.
I don't get this at all - if you mean that traction management will be far easier in the Golf, then I agree [b]but surely a car is only as grippy as it outside front tyre irrespective of wheels driven[/b[ and at least until the apex, while beyond we're in traction territory again. I drive a M135i on wet/stty/muddy b-road every day : it's almost too tractable to be fun despite the lack of a slippy diff. And if it gets too cold, just swap for winters and you have a fun all-weather car.And you can't see either the release or allowance of power/torque to other given wheel(s), or, braking being applied to whichever wheel was calling for it - or a combination of both - having any effect on that outside front tyre...?
That's a very rear wheel driver's POV.
I normally only start applying power when I start unwinding lock as surely if you use all the lateral grip up to the apex there is no friction left for longitudinal acceleration, irrespective of number of wheels driven.
nickfrog said:
tumble dryer said:
nickfrog said:
Carlique said:
Ultimately for me the R is a car which I can enjoy it's performance on an almost daily basis, in all weathers, without it biting your head off. Something that can't realistically be done in cars like the Type R/M135i/Megane RS etc.
I don't get this at all - if you mean that traction management will be far easier in the Golf, then I agree [b]but surely a car is only as grippy as it outside front tyre irrespective of wheels driven[/b[ and at least until the apex, while beyond we're in traction territory again. I drive a M135i on wet/stty/muddy b-road every day : it's almost too tractable to be fun despite the lack of a slippy diff. And if it gets too cold, just swap for winters and you have a fun all-weather car.And you can't see either the release or allowance of power/torque to other given wheel(s), or, braking being applied to whichever wheel was calling for it - or a combination of both - having any effect on that outside front tyre...?
That's a very rear wheel driver's POV.
I normally only start applying power when I start unwinding lock as surely if you use all the lateral grip up to the apex there is no friction left for longitudinal acceleration, irrespective of number of wheels driven.
I think the R is a cracking car for most purposes. The nature of the power delivery, the artificial sound and the very irritating touchscreen infotainment system are valid criticisms but overall I think it's pretty hard to beat. I have a very different car for use on the track but for general road driving the R is an excellent choice. This was mine a few weeks ago when I took it for a gratuitous spirited drive across the Pennines en route to Glasgow from the Midlands. I think in the conditions I'd have struggled to find a quicker car, especially with Pirelli Sottozero 3s fitted.
tumble dryer said:
nickfrog said:
tumble dryer said:
nickfrog said:
Carlique said:
Ultimately for me the R is a car which I can enjoy it's performance on an almost daily basis, in all weathers, without it biting your head off. Something that can't realistically be done in cars like the Type R/M135i/Megane RS etc.
I don't get this at all - if you mean that traction management will be far easier in the Golf, then I agree [b]but surely a car is only as grippy as it outside front tyre irrespective of wheels driven[/b[ and at least until the apex, while beyond we're in traction territory again. I drive a M135i on wet/stty/muddy b-road every day : it's almost too tractable to be fun despite the lack of a slippy diff. And if it gets too cold, just swap for winters and you have a fun all-weather car.And you can't see either the release or allowance of power/torque to other given wheel(s), or, braking being applied to whichever wheel was calling for it - or a combination of both - having any effect on that outside front tyre...?
That's a very rear wheel driver's POV.
I normally only start applying power when I start unwinding lock as surely if you use all the lateral grip up to the apex there is no friction left for longitudinal acceleration, irrespective of number of wheels driven.
400 horse in in hand said:
"Is expectation the only thing the all-conquering Golf R can't out-accelerate?"
I remember it struggled against a manual M135i driven by someone with dodgy knees & clown feet.
Never did see the video?
3/4 if I remember correctly.
Three out of four and the Golf's windscreen for good measure! I think spirits were down after the 'operational difficulties' that day though the footage from the M135i and Golf drag races remains valid. Not sure why it never got an edit made but I'll enquire in the new year and we can see about having your moment of glory on PHTV. I remember it struggled against a manual M135i driven by someone with dodgy knees & clown feet.
Never did see the video?
3/4 if I remember correctly.
Cheers,
Dan
DUMBO100 said:
They're not driven by chavs, I have one, I might be a tt but not a chav
Funny word, Chav. Anyway moving on to a more serious point. The engine is great, very durable. I've got the S3 and I much prefer the interior and looks, it handles pretty well but not perfect. You can try to neutralise the understeer by trailing the brakes into corners and it helps the back come round a bit. t but not a chav To be honest if I didn't do 35,000 miles a year my car would have 4 more cylinders.
Edited by WokkaWokka on Wednesday 23 December 00:38
SR06 said:
Extremely is very subjective, but fast it's not. That turbo requires you to rev the thing to 5.5k before anything interesting happens...then it's out if steam by 6.5k. So many times I tried to overtake only to sit there rocking forward and back in a desperate attempt to coax some extra ponies.
You appear to be confusing it with something else. Max torque from ~2800rpm is part of what makes the R so special. To be honest, many of these threads make me happy to not be in the UK. I don't know what you're on about with all of your yobs and chavs and muppets and whatnot, but clearly the R is far more understated than any of its competition, even in a color that dares be so shouty as blue (sure you're not confusing it with orange or yellow?)
And then chat about how nobody with 30k to spend wants to be driving a VW. Well, I don't know, but I find it to be quite the bargain. I wanted an F31 BMW touring, but they neglected to bring the manual transmission to the U.S., so that was immediately crossed off of the list.
Over here, we don't get many of the hot hatches the UK gets, but I didn't cross shop it with other hot hatches, because I didn't want a hot hatch, I wanted an AWD manual transmission estate ski car. The R is the closest of any car in years to fit the bill. I love how understated it is, and the car simply oozes quality. I've only had my car for a few weeks now, but every time I drive it, I'm more impressed with how well-built it is. I thought I'd be a BMW guy for life, but the R is simply top-notch. FWIW, we don't get the M135 hatch here, only the M235, but that's irrelevant because it's available as a coupe only, and with all-wheel-drive, only with the automatic transmission. The ZF 8AT is quite a gearbox, but it's not what I want.
Is the R the enthusiast car to end all enthusiast cars? Of course not. It doesn't have that raw tin-can feel of the Subaru. More power to you if you want to spend that kind of money to drive a rattletrap, but that's not my style. Focus RS? Well, it's not out yet, and will probably be the car Subaru should have built, but having driven the Focus ST, I'm quite confident the Golf is the better car for me.
The quad tailpipes are the only shouty aspect to the car; I felt that 4 pipes on my Z3 M Coupe were a bit much, it's even more true on the 4cyl R, in particular because the pipes are chrome. But, honestly, it's the ONLY part of the car that is in-your-face, and in my book that makes it quite a restrained car.
Every time I drive the R I'm impressed by how quiet, comfortable, fast, and simply *quality* the car is. I drove a few Mk7 GTIs and thought the journos impression of the Mk7 cabin as "high end" was a bit overstated.. but in the R it is true. I'm not sure if the R is that much better than the GTI inside, or if you just notice the luxury touches the longer you own the car.
The S3 was not even a consideration in my book, because it is DSG-only in the US, and sedan-only. Frankly, the sedan bodystyle does nothing for me, and I'd rather not be showing off an Audi badge everywhere I go.
thebraketester said:
cat with a hat said:
Whenever i see one on the road, I just think 'cheap lease deals'
True. Too common. I see more mk7 r than any other mk7. I'd rather have the normal GTI with PP or the club sport if they bring it out.
Wouldn't have a poobaru if it were given to me.
I've never driven the R, but I can see the appeal, especially if you can get one for such reasonable rates.
And you wouldn't have a Subaru if you were given one? Really? I think you've had things a little too good.
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