RE: VW Golf R vs. its own hype
Discussion
rconti said:
SR06 said:
Extremely is very subjective, but fast it's not. That turbo requires you to rev the thing to 5.5k before anything interesting happens...then it's out if steam by 6.5k. So many times I tried to overtake only to sit there rocking forward and back in a desperate attempt to coax some extra ponies.
You appear to be confusing it with something else. Max torque from ~2800rpm is part of what makes the R so special. By 2500rpm a standard R has 30lbft more torque than the old R32, and holds it to 5.5K. The R32 feels initially more grunty off the line though, because 6 pot + 3.2 litres.
A manual R can get caught out sub-2500rpm and feel pretty lethargic by comparison. 3000+ and the R will sprint away from the R32.
For a mass produced 4 pot turbo, it's quite an impressive engine imo.... and capable of a lot more.
thebraketester said:
Gregmitchell said:
CerberusRogue said:
Gregmitchell said:
for £230 a month find me a better new car.... didn't think so....
Golf GTI. There, I did it for you.I wouldn't go as far as saying Haldex is boring though.
Not really a fan of the R or the M135i.
The 1M has ruined me.
I dont get the hate, i think it may be as we hear so much about it, it isnt going to replace every car, ever, its a good all rounder liekthe Golf GTi always had been, but with everything turned up a couple of notches.
I think if I could justify the cost to lease one or pay the depreciation on one, I probably would but though I could afford it, it would irk me that its costs me £300 plus a month to have one sat there, and realistically that is what it will cost, even if you can lease one cheaper there is the deposit to consider over two or three years, insuring it etc, but that is more a leasing/new car thing than anything about the Golf R.
What would put me off now is its popularity with scum, i.e. the type that break in for the keys, they are a bit of a target, my brother is considering one but his area, though nice, borders some not so nice bits and nice cars tend to go missing.
I think if I could justify the cost to lease one or pay the depreciation on one, I probably would but though I could afford it, it would irk me that its costs me £300 plus a month to have one sat there, and realistically that is what it will cost, even if you can lease one cheaper there is the deposit to consider over two or three years, insuring it etc, but that is more a leasing/new car thing than anything about the Golf R.
What would put me off now is its popularity with scum, i.e. the type that break in for the keys, they are a bit of a target, my brother is considering one but his area, though nice, borders some not so nice bits and nice cars tend to go missing.
HJMS123 said:
lord trumpton said:
It is funny reading this thread; especially the chav comments.
I've currently got a new R and and an '08 Edition 30 - both golfs (obviously) both paid for with cash (don't do credit)
How small is your penis? Or do you just suffer with little man syndrome?I've currently got a new R and and an '08 Edition 30 - both golfs (obviously) both paid for with cash (don't do credit)
And for the record, I'd go with a M235i because of the engine and the cheeky skids!!!!
Edited by seefarr on Wednesday 23 December 11:05
Coolbanana said:
So the R is to me a bit of an eye-opener and somewhat of a revelation. You'd think VAG products were rubbish reading some folks comments on PH but, for me, the opposite is surely true if this little Golf is anything to go by. It is well put together and feels like a premium brand product. It is ergonomically functional, neat and tidy. It is a genuinely quick car and handles itself better in the wet than any vehicle I've owned previously.
I have to admit this and the rest of the post articulate pretty much what I feel about the R after 9 months. I also find the quad pipes OTT but I certainly have no worries about driving it and parking it anywhere, or the missus driving it. Cracking car, and with a little one on the way the practicality of the 5 door hatch is very appealing.Good article Dan
I am lucky to have a truly focused track car which is compromised for road use.....it's an impossible task to get it just 'right' for both situations.....ultimate lap times don't correspond with nice a nice fast road car (in general terms)
However as our everyday road car choices change due to age and tastes the choice of cars out there mean we have never had it so good.
In the real world of average incomes for the family man Golf and S3, make a compelling package. Yes you can make them quicker noisier and handle better with the vast array of aftermarket options (been there and done that) which can ultimately make your family hot hatch better for the track but it as ever compromises family duties.
Ive been looking at the R with a view to tune it with quality parts so I can still keep it comfy for the road but great handling for the track (KW, Ohlins or Bilstein suspension) with some more poke Q APR and some big brakes but then again I am toiling with the new 4 door M3 or new RS3 for the extra character of the engine......(I'm sure you can improve the understeer on the RS3 with some camber Q KW Clubsports)
It's a good time for cars mods and that's face it 300bhp in a hot hatch is simply bonkers some 10 years ago.
How about a nice M135 with a nice diff and Hartge dampers from Birds BMW??
I am lucky to have a truly focused track car which is compromised for road use.....it's an impossible task to get it just 'right' for both situations.....ultimate lap times don't correspond with nice a nice fast road car (in general terms)
However as our everyday road car choices change due to age and tastes the choice of cars out there mean we have never had it so good.
In the real world of average incomes for the family man Golf and S3, make a compelling package. Yes you can make them quicker noisier and handle better with the vast array of aftermarket options (been there and done that) which can ultimately make your family hot hatch better for the track but it as ever compromises family duties.
Ive been looking at the R with a view to tune it with quality parts so I can still keep it comfy for the road but great handling for the track (KW, Ohlins or Bilstein suspension) with some more poke Q APR and some big brakes but then again I am toiling with the new 4 door M3 or new RS3 for the extra character of the engine......(I'm sure you can improve the understeer on the RS3 with some camber Q KW Clubsports)
It's a good time for cars mods and that's face it 300bhp in a hot hatch is simply bonkers some 10 years ago.
How about a nice M135 with a nice diff and Hartge dampers from Birds BMW??
It seems to me there's a bit of a pattern:
Those who have a Golf R as a daily/all-rounder but who also have something fun in the garage for weekends seem to love them.
Those who have a Golf R as their fun car or only car, or have tested one or contemplated one with raw fun in mind don't quite see them as the answer.
I'm guessing VW aimed the R squarely at the all-rounder crowd, making it a bit of a triumph in my eyes.
It really caught my attention in estate form, as I have a TDi estate and a fun car, and am tempted by an R estate to replace two cars with one. Most miles are done in the TDi estate (family, load lugging, etc) so swapping that for an R really appeals. But can I live with more fun more of the time, in exchange for less fun at weekends? I really, really don't know.
Those who have a Golf R as a daily/all-rounder but who also have something fun in the garage for weekends seem to love them.
Those who have a Golf R as their fun car or only car, or have tested one or contemplated one with raw fun in mind don't quite see them as the answer.
I'm guessing VW aimed the R squarely at the all-rounder crowd, making it a bit of a triumph in my eyes.
It really caught my attention in estate form, as I have a TDi estate and a fun car, and am tempted by an R estate to replace two cars with one. Most miles are done in the TDi estate (family, load lugging, etc) so swapping that for an R really appeals. But can I live with more fun more of the time, in exchange for less fun at weekends? I really, really don't know.
Is a lot of the dislike of the R due to it being a Golf?
There's often been a dislike of Golfs mentioned on here, and to an extent I get why, they're so competent that to some they could be deemed dull. Though to be fair to VW they're trying to build the consummate all rounder, and not a renault sport direct rival.
There's often been a dislike of Golfs mentioned on here, and to an extent I get why, they're so competent that to some they could be deemed dull. Though to be fair to VW they're trying to build the consummate all rounder, and not a renault sport direct rival.
acme said:
Is a lot of the dislike of the R due to it being a Golf?
Not really. I had an original R32 which was a great all rounder. It had a character all of its own. The exterior looked different and cool. It was chunky looking. The interior was really solid. Not the fastest thing, but it was a lovely drive. Being a V6 it also sounded good.By comparison the R is boring, with a worse interior, dull engine note and is very expensive. The only thing superior are the numbers. Admittedly those numbers are good. Although I do wonder for the budget you could add some turbos to an R32 and see 500bhp. I know, used v new etc.
TartanPaint said:
It seems to me there's a bit of a pattern:
Those who have a Golf R as a daily/all-rounder but who also have something fun in the garage for weekends seem to love them.
Those who have a Golf R as their fun car or only car, or have tested one or contemplated one with raw fun in mind don't quite see them as the answer.
I'm guessing VW aimed the R squarely at the all-rounder crowd, making it a bit of a triumph in my eyes.
It really caught my attention in estate form, as I have a TDi estate and a fun car, and am tempted by an R estate to replace two cars with one. Most miles are done in the TDi estate (family, load lugging, etc) so swapping that for an R really appeals. But can I live with more fun more of the time, in exchange for less fun at weekends? I really, really don't know.
You could be describing me. My current daily drive is a TT RS Plus, before that an M3 and before that a 997 Carerra. All leased from new.Those who have a Golf R as a daily/all-rounder but who also have something fun in the garage for weekends seem to love them.
Those who have a Golf R as their fun car or only car, or have tested one or contemplated one with raw fun in mind don't quite see them as the answer.
I'm guessing VW aimed the R squarely at the all-rounder crowd, making it a bit of a triumph in my eyes.
It really caught my attention in estate form, as I have a TDi estate and a fun car, and am tempted by an R estate to replace two cars with one. Most miles are done in the TDi estate (family, load lugging, etc) so swapping that for an R really appeals. But can I live with more fun more of the time, in exchange for less fun at weekends? I really, really don't know.
The Audi has 82000 miles on it and I gave the Porsche back after 4 years with 80000 miles on that....stupid waste of money but nice cars to use every day.
So instead of falling into the same trap again and leasing an F type I thought I might go for the Golf R or the M135 on a bit less miles PA and buy a useable appreciating classic for up to 5000 miles PA.
I'm testing them both in the new year but I prefer the interior of the golf and the BMW isn't the prettiest thing....could be a laugh in orange mind you.
What should I go for and I thought a series 1 Elise as my classic.....good call?
V8A*ndy said:
I'd prefer the GTi also.
I wouldn't go as far as saying Haldex is boring though.
Not really a fan of the R or the M135i.
The 1M has ruined me.
I agree with all this.I wouldn't go as far as saying Haldex is boring though.
Not really a fan of the R or the M135i.
The 1M has ruined me.
It's a shame because I really need to replace the 1M with something more family friendly (i.e. 4/5 doors) but don't really want a "big" car. I don't like the looks of the M135, and I just find the AWD VW / Audi offerings too "safe' on the rare occasion you actually want the driving experience to be an experience. The Clubsport Golf is tempting, but IMHO looks a bit OTT with its rear wing and sticker set, and the 230ish bhp of the PP'd GTI is too big a step down.
It's a conundrum.
I think the Golf is about to have its thunder stolen by the Focus RS, then there will be the Focus RS backlash and the Golf will be ignored.
Will be interesting to see how many Ford sell, whether it will just be the rally jacketed, shaven headed RS faithful who have a pristine Sieera Cosworth with a chromed underside they never drive and would buy a dog turd if it had an RS badge, or the general population ? will those who like a bit of "Premium" be put off by the Blue oval ?
Cant wait for the back to back test, only have to wait a few months now, Spring 2016 but I suspect VW will have a few tweaks for the current R as an answer.
Will be interesting to see how many Ford sell, whether it will just be the rally jacketed, shaven headed RS faithful who have a pristine Sieera Cosworth with a chromed underside they never drive and would buy a dog turd if it had an RS badge, or the general population ? will those who like a bit of "Premium" be put off by the Blue oval ?
Cant wait for the back to back test, only have to wait a few months now, Spring 2016 but I suspect VW will have a few tweaks for the current R as an answer.
Gruber said:
V8A*ndy said:
I'd prefer the GTi also.
I wouldn't go as far as saying Haldex is boring though.
Not really a fan of the R or the M135i.
The 1M has ruined me.
I agree with all this.I wouldn't go as far as saying Haldex is boring though.
Not really a fan of the R or the M135i.
The 1M has ruined me.
It's a shame because I really need to replace the 1M with something more family friendly (i.e. 4/5 doors) but don't really want a "big" car. I don't like the looks of the M135, and I just find the AWD VW / Audi offerings too "safe' on the rare occasion you actually want the driving experience to be an experience. The Clubsport Golf is tempting, but IMHO looks a bit OTT with its rear wing and sticker set, and the 230ish bhp of the PP'd GTI is too big a step down.
It's a conundrum.
Looks are subjective and whether people like it or not play a part in the buying process, particularly when you are in your 30's, need something large enough for family duties and can't exactly turn up at work in something that looks like its a Demon Tweeks wet dream. That is the reality faced by many. It's a compromise.
Increasingly, in terms of alternatives, I'm finding something like a BMW 340i touring hard to ignore. OK, it isn't designed to be a focused performer but it will be dynamically polished, sound good, looks the part and will go as well as any hyper hatch. The dog can enjoy the ride, too.
Like it or not, VAG have nailed a particular segment of the market with the Golf R regardless of whether it is the complete article or not.
No car is perfect and there is always a compromise somewhere.
k-ink said:
Not really. I had an original R32 which was a great all rounder. It had a character all of its own. The exterior looked different and cool. It was chunky looking. The interior was really solid. Not the fastest thing, but it was a lovely drive. Being a V6 it also sounded good.
By comparison the R is boring, with a worse interior, dull engine note and is very expensive. The only thing superior are the numbers. Admittedly those numbers are good. Although I do wonder for the budget you could add some turbos to an R32 and see 500bhp. I know, used v new etc.
As compared to the Mk4 I understand your comments re exterior, it really did look different to the regular Golf's of the time, and the wheels were superb - the standard ones on the R look awful in my eyes, which is odd as I think the standard ones on the GTI look great.By comparison the R is boring, with a worse interior, dull engine note and is very expensive. The only thing superior are the numbers. Admittedly those numbers are good. Although I do wonder for the budget you could add some turbos to an R32 and see 500bhp. I know, used v new etc.
Having extensively driven 6 cylinder cars they really do have something over 4 pots, I'm afraid in that sense the R simply can't compare - would be interesting to hear from anyone who's had both R and M125i/M235i how they now feel about this, especially if driven a lot as a daily??
As for interior, the MK4 was so solid, the MK5 I had whilst ergonomically pleasing was a major step back in quality. I have to say 26k/15 months in and I really rate the MK7 interior, pretty much perfect in my eyes.
J4CKO said:
I think the Golf is about to have its thunder stolen by the Focus RS, then there will be the Focus RS backlash and the Golf will be ignored.
Will be interesting to see how many Ford sell, whether it will just be the rally jacketed, shaven headed RS faithful who have a pristine Sieera Cosworth with a chromed underside they never drive and would buy a dog turd if it had an RS badge, or the general population ? will those who like a bit of "Premium" be put off by the Blue oval ?
True and valid questions. Everyone who has driven it dropped hints that the car is going to be a complete game-changer in the hot hatch segment due to its AWD system.Will be interesting to see how many Ford sell, whether it will just be the rally jacketed, shaven headed RS faithful who have a pristine Sieera Cosworth with a chromed underside they never drive and would buy a dog turd if it had an RS badge, or the general population ? will those who like a bit of "Premium" be put off by the Blue oval ?
Ford tested Haldex but couldn't get it to produce a result that they were happy with, so they designed a new system with GKN from scratch. More on the topic: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gkn-suppli...
The result is a car that feels much more rear wheel driven than the slew of Haldex cars out there where you feel like you're driving a FWD car with the rear wheels helping out under acceleration (Golf R, S3, A45, etc)
I hope that other manufacturers will be forced to drop Haldex in favour of such a system but I'm not getting my hopes up... it's just too convenient for their modular FWD platforms.
J4CKO said:
I think the Golf is about to have its thunder stolen by the Focus RS, then there will be the Focus RS backlash and the Golf will be ignored.
See, this is the problem. I can't imagine that a Golf R buyer would be seen dead in a Ford with a body kit, and I can't imagine an RS enthusiast would ever stop yawning at the thought of a bland, boring Golf.Totally different buyers in my mind, which I think is where a lot of this, "Is the R amazing or not?" debate comes from. Both cars will split opinions and neither will steal significant sales from the other, would be my guess.
I think I'd be inclined to look more towards the Sirocco R than the Golf. That said, I do find all VW's seem a dull choice and excitement is an integral part of car ownership for me now. I always thought of the main benefit of owning a VW car was reliability... I'm sure it's a supremely competent and capable vehicle though.
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