RE: BMW 850CSi: Spotted

[derin100]

blade7 said:

hornetrider said:

35k

Well, we may be laughing now...but please allow me to tell a little story by way of a counter...

Some years ago I really need to reduce my number of cars. Something had to go as things had got a bit out of hand and I just had too many cars. In the end, I was faced with a choice between selling my E30 M3 that I had owned for about 7 years or my very low mileage 840Ci Sport. Ok, I know it wasn't an 850CSi (but I'll get to the point in a sec)and I never realistically wanted to own the CSi because I knew I could never really afford the rear wheel-steering mechanism screwing up on me plus never personally felt that I would want to throw an E31 around U.K roads at speeds more than the 840 could do having owned several before.

1) http://www.bmwclassics.co.uk/gallery/index.php?spg...

2) http://www.bmwclassics.co.uk/gallery/index.php?spg...



With all the 'hype' that now surrounds E30 M3s it may come as a surprise that for me the choice between the two actually wasn't that difficult. At the time,top class E30 M3s sold for under £10K. Even good Sport EVOs barely made £12K. At the time, my E31 was the more financially valuable car and for me it was a vastly better car to have the pleasure of owning. It was also vastly more expensive than an E30 M3 when new.

I sold my E30 M3 for £13K which was a truly unheard of figure then! Consider that a friend sold his E30 M3 EVO II to someone in the Isle of Man for £4K at around the same time.

But how times can and did suddenly change, eh? If one sees an E30 M3 for sale at £35K nowadays(and often much, much more) not many people baulk or laugh, do they? But many did initially when they suddenly rocketed in price. It didn't stop them from selling.

E31s are actually rare cars in the U.K. To include all variants, only 3004 units ever came to the U.K. out of a total global production of circa 30,000(i.e. only 10%). That 850CSi is a very rare car. One of only 160 RHD cars made...and I don't know of those 160 how many actually came to the U.K. but perhaps someone can fill in that data? For comparison, a total number of E30 M3s of 16202 were produced. Ok, that's half total E31 production but E31 is still in the same order of magnitude when one considers other contemporaneous models such as E34s which ran to circa 1.3 million units produced.

With rarity comes a price. I repeat: "That 850CSi is a very rare car."

I think the reason perhaps that people might baulk or laugh at that asking price is that here in the U.K (for the moment at least)the E31 has remained chronically under-valued. This has been, I think, in great part caused by a perception at launch regarding its "complexity" and this has persisted, as a myth, for the last quarter of a century! Yes, it was a complex car 25 years when most ordinary mechanics, outside the main-dealership network, didn't have computer diagnostics etc...but they're no more complex than an E38 or E39 really yet one never really hears this said about them.

In other part, another reason I think is simply that the 'usual' dealers and motoring journos just haven't got around to hyping and hiking their prices yet. But they are potentially a prime candidate for that sort of activity now. E30 M3s, CSLs (both E9 and E46),Z8s, air-cooled Porsches, Merc Pagodas, to name a few, all have something in common: reasonably rare but far from vanishingly rare. To make a decent amount of money out of hyping or artificially hiking cars "vanishingly rare" is no good. You need some decent numbers to repeatedly score some decent £Wonga. So, having said that E31s are "rare"...they're not "vanishingly rare". Therefore, a good candidate!

I've just checked on Autotrader and here in the U.K you can still buy an E31 for under £5K (although there are more expensive ones nearer the top). But remember, as I said earlier, that's what you could buy an E30 M3 EVO II for? So, that does possibly make that green 850CSi look expensive and so I can understand why people may be laughing...at the moment.

But...take a look at what's happening in Germany (and our market here in the U.K always lags behind but seems to catch up in the end). Suddenly, that 850CSi's price isn't so funny?

These first ones, by way of appetiser and so that the initial shock isn't too great, are 840s (not an 850CSi):

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/auto/search.html...

Now, take a look at the 850CSi prices in the link below (ignore 850Ci as this was not a variant available in the U.K):

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/auto/search.html...


I, like most of us here, have seen some pretty funny 'joke prices' on cars...but I actually don't think the price on that green CSi is one of the more hilarious jokes!

Edited by derin100 on Tuesday 5th January 21:26

Edited by derin100 on Tuesday 5th January 21:27

Edited by derin100 on Tuesday 5th January 21:35

[Vee12V]

35k? Steep, but why not. Some throw (a lot) more than that at silly (Targa) Porsches of which they built thousands.

Edited by Vee12V on Tuesday 5th January 21:33

[bubster]

I worked for a BMW dealer in the 90's and we looked after a red one of these, I drove it every time, for quality reasons;) it was stunning, in my opinion and nothing like any other 8 series has a switch on the centre console for 2 engine modes;)

Great great great car

[isleofthorns]

last one i bought was barely in four figures (admittedly several years ago and it was a shed).

in my experience, one of the costliest bmw's to run. I wouldn't buy one without a specialist inspection and clean bill of health.

ps - much prefer the oxford green to this

[Zombie]

Love the colour, the concept of the engine and the car but it's up against some competition at this price point!

For example;

Lovely AC Ace;
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...

Not the best example with the horrid revolutions... But Lotus Elan(s)?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/l...

What about one of the (reputably) best handling cars ever? 968CS?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

Or a predictably boring old E30 M3?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...

A nice sedate 912? I even like the colour!
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

Cossie?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...

Or 'growler?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/l...

Waft tactic land yacht? - Thunderbirds are go...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...

Cheap MG!
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...

35k?! For a poxy MG?!!!
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...

Equally Silly money Imp!
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/s...

[R400TVR]

Lovely cars. They look so much better than most of todays super coupes - fast but not needlessly aggressive. Pity they didn't produce the M8. Now that would have really been special. Just looking at the engine is a treat!

[j_s14a]

I know someone who used to own an 840ci for a few years from new. Since then, he has had many cars, including an R35 GTR, Continental GT, various 911's, a 6 series and an SL55 AMG. He still maintains the 840 is the best car he's ever owned.

[Zombie]

You pays your money...

I'm 6'7" so the Ace wouldn't be an option for me. I think there are better cars for less money too; Maser 4200 or maybe a Quatroporte?

[belleair302]

I believe a number of parts for the cars, especially suspension are NLA. Not one for frequent use and more of a garage queen or sadly a serial investor. 8 series look amazing but do not go as well as one would believe, way more GT than a sports coupe and a heavy GT to boot.

[DegsyE39]

The same dealer has got an m3 csl up at 92k and a W210 E55 (the ones with a penchant for rusting like a morris marina) up at 20k

I love the e31, i mean i cant think of a pre 2010 bmw i dont like.. But i do think we are in the midst of a somewhat irrational classic car price bubble.. I may be proven wrong though but look at the tulip bubble all those years back.

I dunno ive got memories of looking at an e34 to replace my w124 around 2007ish and this market just strikes me as lunacy.

Regards lads.

Edited by DegsyE39 on Wednesday 6th January 04:19

[TR4man]

Beautiful looking car, even now would stand out and turn heads.

However the asking price is a tad optimistic

[AB]

Always been one of my favourite cars. Growing up, our next door neighbour was a premiership footballer, before the days of premiership footballers being blinged up idiots.

I remember Ian Rush turning up in a brand new 850CSi and I fell in love with it. Such presence that I don't remember from anything else. Must have been around 1995 perhaps?

In 1999 my Dad bought a brand new 840Ci Sport, one of the last to be produced and it stayed in the family until recently when depressingly things started going wrong with it and it wasn't being driven enough due to dodgy hips; I'd buy it back in a heartbeat and annoyingly it's somewhere in the country SORN'd. I used to just love driving it, even though it was relatively slow and wallowy, but amazing noise.

£35k takes this one out of the realms of a car to buy for the nostalgia, by quite a margin, but one can dream.

[g3org3y]

J4CKO said:

I wouldnt say it is worth 35 grand, I would say other 8 series are a bargain, it speaks volumes about now that their 80s shoulder pad styling looks almost meek, its a rather wonderful slice of german car history, much rarer than most of the main offenders and really, go and get a cheaper one with a bit less provenance, though I think this could eventually make some money, these are a bit of a hidden gem, still in the wilderness to a certain extent but sod racing pedigree, I dont race, what a way to waft.

Lovely looking thing.

[Bladedancer]

They've gone off the deep end with the price.

[CRA1G]

The E31 is a true classic in the making and who would believe now 27 years old,ok I might be a little bias with my views on the E31 but I think the car is priced about right..! The rarest of the E31 very few around now and low milage other than the wrong wheels the car looks spot on and IMO can only go one way now watch this space.....

[Guvernator]

So I keep hearing stories that these can be hideously expensive to run, does anyone know what actually goes wrong with them as I assume the V12 must be pretty solid.

[Leins]

I suspect POA might equate to more than £35k: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...

[Spekkie]

In my opinion the car looks great and has great specs, but in essence the drive is just as good as a 10 year younger 5 series and that is why it will never skyrocket in price

I was obsessed with BMW 8 series and was already thinking about selling my 964 c4 to get an 850.... until I tried an 850.... both cars arguably from same area, the 964 is on a different planet in terms of driver engagement > so I lost interest

8 series looks very cool but in my view not a very good car

[Fittster]

As I recall comparison reviews of the 8 series weren't great. I think Car placed it behind the 928 and XJS, and I recall a less than complementary article by Russel Bulgin.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/magazine-featuring-Porsche...

Edited by Fittster on Wednesday 6th January 12:07

[Guvernator]

I think the problem is that the fantastic looks fool people into thinking it's going to be more sporty than it is when in reality it's a nigh on two tonne GT. Still I think in this day and age, a manual V12 one of these makes more sense then a lot of other GT's available now.