RE: Why we love rear-wheel drive

[coppice]

As I am no longer in the first flush of youth threads with titles like this make me smile. RWD per se does not equal sideways action and general fun, but the driveline set up is mistakenly assumed by many to confer great handling . It doesn't - far from it. Fact is , very few RWD cars are now made and of those that are the majority are sports cars or cars with a sporting image( whether entirely justified or not). These sub categories cover anything from Sevens to M3s via Porsches and poverty spec diesel Mercs and I doubt represent more than 10% of cars bought in Europe.

Spool back 30 years and there was widespread disbelief that Ford could be so conservative as to soldier on with boring old rwd on the Sierra . In the same decade the fwd hot hatch finally nailed rwd sports cars' coffin- who wanted a wheezy old MG when a Golf GTi would annihilate it in speed - and fun? Spool back further and the 60s were full of really ,really rubbish rwd cars -most things had it and cars such as every Vauxhall, every Ford apart from Escort twin cam/ Cortina Lotus and most of BMC's output were beyond dire. Oxford and Cambridge, Westminster and A40 were beyond rubbish rwd cars . Whereas the Mini ..you know the rest.

Good rwd is fabulous (it's why I have owned Sevens for years) and bad rwd is terrible. Still to be convinced? Try driving an 80s Nissan Bluebird more than ..hmm.. 10 yards ?

[Meridius]

Because PHers are driving gods able to perfectly control even the wildest bit of sideways action in all the twisties they come across.

[andy97]

I would have liked to have seen a 2wd 911 included in the test, and a rwd car with a rear transaxle such as a Porsche 968 or a more modern Aston. Different configurations but all rwd.

I have owned fwd, rwd and 4wd road cars and raced fwd and rwd cars. The best handling car I have ever driven is my cheapo Porsche 924S race car; the balance is phenomenal. Pity I'm too lousy to race it as quick as it will go!

[SonicShadow]

yonex said:

SonicShadow said:

I wonder how many of the FWD haters have actually driven an accomplished FWD chassis, like a DC2.

I don't hate fwd but wouldn't choose another. I owned a DC2 for 7years and about 65,000 miles.

But it was good enough to keep it for 7 years

[jamieduff1981]

DibblyDobbler said:

Fine for fannying around on the track but try a Scottish winter in a powerful rear drive car - not much fun and just plain slow (I haven't had my foot down properly since about September )

AWD for me next time...

Half my fleet at a AB postcode:



Tbh you sound like an AWD is for you. People who enjoy RWD appreciate more than just being able to mash their right foot into the carpet in winter without the car slapping them about the face.

I use all of mine all year round. My pickup stays in RWD mode except for icy inclines - it tends to understeer in 4WD mode and understeer terrifies me.

[CABC]

jamieduff1981 said:

Half my fleet at a AB postcode:



Tbh you sound like an AWD is for you. People who enjoy RWD appreciate more than just being able to mash their right foot into the carpet in winter without the car slapping them about the face.

I use all of mine all year round. My pickup stays in RWD mode except for icy inclines - it tends to understeer in 4WD mode and understeer terrifies me.

Tell me you've shrunk the Cerb...... 'Cos that picture is scary.

[DibblyDobbler]

jamieduff1981 said:

DibblyDobbler said:

Fine for fannying around on the track but try a Scottish winter in a powerful rear drive car - not much fun and just plain slow (I haven't had my foot down properly since about September )

AWD for me next time...

Half my fleet at a AB postcode:



Tbh you sound like an AWD is for you. People who enjoy RWD appreciate more than just being able to mash their right foot into the carpet in winter without the car slapping them about the face.

I use all of mine all year round. My pickup stays in RWD mode except for icy inclines - it tends to understeer in 4WD mode and understeer terrifies me.

Oh nice fleet!

Yes I agree - if I'm coming out of a junction and accelerating away I like being able to give it full welly and it's just not possible in my 135i so (flame suit on!) I'll be after a Golf R or Focus RS or some such next

[nickfrog]

Meridius said:

Because PHers are driving gods able to perfectly control even the wildest bit of sideways action in all the twisties they come across.

Nah, they probably have enough throttle modulation skill not to get in a wild bit of sideways action in the first place. It's not THAT difficult, all you have to do is realise that the throttle is not an on-off switch and that it should be applied more or less in proportion to the amount of steering lock being unwound. I don't think you need to be a DG to understand that nor apply it, it's the very basic of performance driving, even at grass root level.

[nickfrog]

DibblyDobbler said:

Fine for fannying around on the track but try a Scottish winter in a powerful rear drive car - not much fun and just plain slow (I haven't had my foot down properly since about September )

AWD for me next time...

I see we have the same car although my commute is on Sussex/Surrey dual-C and then B-roads. I find the amount of traction generated by the Supersport incredible and the limit seems to be line of sight / traffic / licence conservation rather than anything else. A really quick car in the current wet/muddy/stty weather.

It might be possible that you need winters at your presumably lower level of temperature ?

[GreigM]

DibblyDobbler said:

Fine for fannying around on the track but try a Scottish winter in a powerful rear drive car - not much fun and just plain slow (I haven't had my foot down properly since about September )

AWD for me next time...

I'd say thats down to rubber. My 5-series is chronic in the winter on "normal" tyres and completely transformed with decent winter rubber - I find its especially good in the just above freezing and damp/greasy/salted roads we commonly get in Scotland. In fact I was out this week on some fairly damp roads in my Caterham and had a blast - all because I had decent rubber for the conditions.

Cheaper to try some different tyres than to change cars....

[DibblyDobbler]

nickfrog said:

DibblyDobbler said:

Fine for fannying around on the track but try a Scottish winter in a powerful rear drive car - not much fun and just plain slow (I haven't had my foot down properly since about September )

AWD for me next time...

I see we have the same car although my commute is on Sussex/Surrey dual-C and then B-roads. I find the amount of traction generated by the Supersport incredible and the limit seems to be line of sight / traffic / licence conservation rather than anything else. A really quick car in the current wet/muddy/stty weather.

It might be possible that you need winters at your presumably lower level of temperature ?

Hmm - you might be right Nick. Purely in a straight line if I give it full accelerator in 2nd from a rolling start it'll start breaking away by the time I'm up to around 40ish in the current cool and damp conditions - and that's on fairly new MPSS. I've been spoiled as I've had various nippy 4WD cars before - eg S4, Impreza etc and I used to love blasting off regardless of wet/dry/warm/cold etc. Nipping out of a side road into a gap requires a lot of feathering of the throttle and I feel like I'm only using about half of the horse power the car has - it's frustrating!

[DibblyDobbler]

GreigM said:

DibblyDobbler said:

Fine for fannying around on the track but try a Scottish winter in a powerful rear drive car - not much fun and just plain slow (I haven't had my foot down properly since about September )

AWD for me next time...

I'd say thats down to rubber. My 5-series is chronic in the winter on "normal" tyres and completely transformed with decent winter rubber - I find its especially good in the just above freezing and damp/greasy/salted roads we commonly get in Scotland. In fact I was out this week on some fairly damp roads in my Caterham and had a blast - all because I had decent rubber for the conditions.

Cheaper to try some different tyres than to change cars....

Greig - yes you're quite possibly right there. I've never tried winters but it'd be a damn sight cheaper than stumping up £10k to trade up (?) to a Golf R!

[anglophile]

Due to the old and slow manual steering box, doing a lot of opposite lock in my 1980 Porsche 911SC was not easy, especially when the tail started to rotate.

Mostly it was better to get all my braking done in a straight line, using the car's weight distribution to maximize braking, and getting and staying on the gas exiting turns at track days. I rather thought it was best to drive it the same way as one would ride a performance motorcycle, and it worked for me. Mild four-wheel drifts were the result, and like the Caterham, having your butt so close to the rear wheels made feeling what was going on just superb.

[anonymous-user]

SonicShadow said:

But it was good enough to keep it for 7 years

Yes, brilliant car. But I prefer RWD now I have had a few, they're just more neutral. It's a long apprenticeship, and I don't claim to be able to drive anything more skilled than 'average' but I prefer them.

[RossP]

The supercharged minis are good fun. Needs an LSD though

[nickfrog]

DibblyDobbler said:

Hmm - you might be right Nick. Purely in a straight line if I give it full accelerator in 2nd from a rolling start it'll start breaking away by the time I'm up to around 40ish in the current cool and damp conditions - and that's on fairly new MPSS. I've been spoiled as I've had various nippy 4WD cars before - eg S4, Impreza etc and I used to love blasting off regardless of wet/dry/warm/cold etc. Nipping out of a side road into a gap requires a lot of feathering of the throttle and I feel like I'm only using about half of the horse power the car has - it's frustrating!

That's my favourite thing about the car ;-). On a serious note have you considered a LSD ?

[Nickbrapp]

stephen300o said:

Nickbrapp said:

Zammy said:

I love the push of power from behind from rear wheel cars, especially in BMW's.

I bet you do especially when he's called hansel

Oh well, third time lucky?

This forum is the worst mobile website ever

[VeeFource]

I love rwd. But I also love an agile short wheelbase with low weight which is next to impossible to get with some practicality (I.e. more than two seats and a decent sized boot) with rwd. A GT86 is closest but that's still 20% heavier and a 320mm longer wheelbase than my Swift Sport. Plus most people who take the back seats selfishly have legs.

[Mound Dawg]

I love RWD because however good a FWD car's chassis is, you still feel the effects of power transmission through the steering.

What used to be described in road tests as "great steering, for front wheel drive" became "great steering" a long time ago when FWD supplanted RWD as the norm for production cars.

A bit like how "very refined, for a diesel" has become "very refined" even though the sub 2 litre ones still sound like a 40 year old Transit.

[aeropilot]

DibblyDobbler said:

Oh nice fleet!

Yes I agree - if I'm coming out of a junction and accelerating away I like being able to give it full welly and it's just not possible in my 135i so (flame suit on!) I'll be after a Golf R or Focus RS or some such next

Clearly a girls car will suit you better then.....