RE: McLaren 570S vs. 911 Turbo S vs. R8 V10 Plus

[Quickmoose]

Dale487 said:

When I was 12 I'd had a 911 Turbo over any other Porsche 911 but now GT3, Carrera GTS, Carrera S or Carrera all appeal to me more - driving experience and looks

Agreed, the wheel size, design and general ride height all conspire to reduce what is a gorgeous shape (991) and make it look odd.

[LordHaveMurci]

Tuvra said:

LordHaveMurci said:

That R8 is gopping

Yeah I bet you'd be really gutted if you have to drive one

If I was spending that kind of money it wouldn't be on my short list.

[PunterCam]

Scuffers said:

ORD said:

I wouldn't get out of bed for a car with an automatic gearbox, turbo engine and more grip than you can possibly ever use. It is also too wide for most fun roads. It's a car for pootling around West London in 1st gear, not driving the wheels off. True of all 'supercars', really.

I bet someone could tell us what sort of average speeds supercars do in England. I imagine it is in the teens.

A supercar without an exotic engine is pointless, in my view. The R8 at least has an awesome engine.

Agree with you about the Audi V10 engine, it is a work of art, the problem is that up until they mated it to the dsg box, the manual was quite literally the worse change ever and the auto had the response of a 1960's 3 speed borg warner.

the other problem with it is that to get it to go anywhere 'fast' you have to rev the nadds off it, great from an aural perspective, but really hard to do on the road, the other two just 'go' at almost any engine speed, all be it with less occasion and drama.

I also agree that the look of the older R8 was more distinctive.

You've clearly had a crap experience in an R8, which is a shame. The manual was a lovely gearbox, and the open(ish) gate made it that more special (sure, it was a nonsense, but then so are all supercars). And sure, you had to rev the balls off a v10 r8 to get going (it's not actually all that fast compared to the new turbo cars), but what's wrong with having to rev the balls off a supercar? It's not hard to do, because it wasn't all that fast. This new v10 plus has over 100bhp MORE remember, plus the automatic gearbox - it's different league performance compared to the old car.

I guess to comes down to why people buy supercars these days. I guess quite a few people just wanted to be fastest down the slip-road onto the motorway..

[T16OLE]

Can't believe that cruise control is a £275 option on a £132,000 Audi

[Tuvra]

LordHaveMurci said:

Tuvra said:

LordHaveMurci said:

That R8 is gopping

Yeah I bet you'd be really gutted if you have to drive one

If I was spending that kind of money it wouldn't be on my short list.

Still doesn't make it "gopping" does it?!? Preferring other cars fine, but to call it "gopping" when it clearly isn't is a bit of a silly statement.

[Quickmoose]

I love reading a good internet argument based on personal opinion, can't wait to see who wins.
...anyway....

570s styling works really well IMO in a tighter package than the P1 or 675, it's less adorned, less in your face yet still very likely to make you double take, very impressed.
It highlights the problem Porsche faces with the ubiquitous 911, despite how classy that looks (when it's not a turbo), familiarity breeds contempt and when spending this amount of cash, 'looking like all the others' will do you no favours.
And to a lesser extent this applies to the Audi too, it isn't special enough mainly due to it's DNA in having to facsimile the 'face'....it wouldn't be on my short list, despite a wonderfully dramatic interior and what sounds to be an awesome powerplant
Spending £150k + on a supercar I'd want...need..it to look like nothing else, and if it HAS to look like something else it will look like cars that also reside in the upper stratosphere of 'want', a family resemblance where the other family members aren't common either...
Ferrari, Lambo, Aston, Pagani, McLaren etc.
Porsche, Jag and others creep into this territory, but not by enough.....for me...IMO...

[Scuffers]

PunterCam said:

You've clearly had a crap experience in an R8, which is a shame. The manual was a lovely gearbox, and the open(ish) gate made it that more special (sure, it was a nonsense, but then so are all supercars). And sure, you had to rev the balls off a v10 r8 to get going (it's not actually all that fast compared to the new turbo cars), but what's wrong with having to rev the balls off a supercar? It's not hard to do, because it wasn't all that fast. This new v10 plus has over 100bhp MORE remember, plus the automatic gearbox - it's different league performance compared to the old car.

I guess to comes down to why people buy supercars these days. I guess quite a few people just wanted to be fastest down the slip-road onto the motorway..

Well, yes and no, it's no based on a single car/drive. That said, the manual one may well have had issues, basically 3/5 were real struggle to select cleanly, way too easy for them to baulk if you tried to change anything like quickly.

I agree, the latest R8's with DSG are a whole lot better, (shame as I actually like manuals).

Pace wise, the problem I have with the car is it seems not to have a 'home', by that I mean as a road car, I simply ended up driving it round like I would a golf, it was simply too hard work to drive in a 'spirited' fashion, and quite simply, an S4/S5/S6 are all much easier to drive faster on the road and arguably, more rewarding (can't believe I said that!)

I have not driven one on a track, but I suspect it's probably easier to deal with in that environment, although I really can't see the point in any of these cars as a trackday tool.

Look, I am far from Anti-Audi, (I have run quattro's continuously since '97), my issue is with what the R8 is actually aimed at (maybe 'supercars' are wasted on me?)

[Quickmoose]

Scuffers said:

Look, I am far from Anti-Audi, ........

[tuffer]

T16OLE said:

Can't believe that cruise control is a £275 option on a £132,000 Audi

More to the point, why would anyone spec it. I never use Cruise, I hate the feeling of it, I know some people will respond with "50mph roadwork limits" etc but personally I would never pay for it on a car.

[p1stonhead]

tuffer said:

T16OLE said:

Can't believe that cruise control is a £275 option on a £132,000 Audi

More to the point, why would anyone spec it. I never use Cruise, I hate the feeling of it, I know some people will respond with "50mph roadwork limits" etc but personally I would never pay for it on a car.

In the UK its difficult to use on our crowded roads. But go to the continent with 500 miles of empty motorway and its essential!

[tuffer]

p1stonhead said:

tuffer said:

T16OLE said:

Can't believe that cruise control is a £275 option on a £132,000 Audi

More to the point, why would anyone spec it. I never use Cruise, I hate the feeling of it, I know some people will respond with "50mph roadwork limits" etc but personally I would never pay for it on a car.

In the UK its difficult to use on our crowded roads. But go to the continent with 500 miles of empty motorway and its essential!

I drove across France and back this year without using it so not that essential, I also lived in Germany for 4 years and managed just fine without it.

[LordHaveMurci]

Tuvra said:

LordHaveMurci said:

Tuvra said:

LordHaveMurci said:

That R8 is gopping

Yeah I bet you'd be really gutted if you have to drive one

If I was spending that kind of money it wouldn't be on my short list.

Still doesn't make it "gopping" does it?!? Preferring other cars fine, but to call it "gopping" when it clearly isn't is a bit of a silly statement.

Surely looks are subjective? I think it's gopping, that grill belongs on a sea creature. Somebody must like them or they'd never sell any would they.

[HighwayStar]

Of course the looks are subjective... My mate loves it. From the very first pics I saw of the new R8 I thought nah! I just didn't think it looked that special.

A month or so ago Ipswich Audi invited me a long to the R8 launch weekend at their show room. I took my mate along and of course he was very positive about the car. Me, I have to admit it looked better in the metal and the interior is lovely but.... Flanking the new R8, to the left were the original R8 Coupe and Spider. To the right a 458 Spider and a Huracan, provided by a driving experience company. I'm not a lover of the R8 anyway but I prefer the original. To ME the latest R8 just looks bland. I don't like the back end, the way it slopes down to the rear. For some reason it reminds me of a sharpened up, more modern looking Noble M600. For all that it is, it doesn't move me in the slightest. Don't like the rear spoiler either. The Huracan is more theatre but it looks better, more of an event.

And anyone one make the silly statement that I'd take the new R8 if given it. Well yeah! of course I would. If you gave me the money though... it wouldn't make my short list.

Finally, Audi were raffling a driving experience day for anyone who attended the launch. For 2. Free to enter. We won it.
6 cars, 7hrs on the road and dinner. Happy days.

[Palmball]

Tuvra said:

Fair play, that looks outstanding, like a mini 918

I was a bit "meh" about the new R8 in pictures but I have seen two on the road (Navy & Silvery Blue Met.) and they look absolutely spot on. Sharpening up the lines make it seem lower, wider, bigger and more purposeful looking. I love 911 Turbo's but I love the V10 R8's more and that is what I would have out of these two*

*McLaren isn't the same price level IMO.

Thanks

I'd agree, in most pictures the new R8 doesn't look all that - in fact, I'd written it off and actually went to buy a late Gen-1. Thats when I actually saw the new one in person and the rest is history.

Price wise, there's not a lot you can add to an R8 beyond around £10k's worth of options so it's actually hard to spend over £145k for a very well spec'd car. The Macca is a good 15% more for similar spec so I wouldn't class it in the same price league really.

Ballistic said:

Hi Andrew,

What was it about the R8 that won you over and how does it compare to the AMG GTS?

I decided to move the GT on quicker than even I thought I would - I waited for it three times longer than I owned it but with my attention spam, that was probably half the problem!

Also, after driving a friends Gen-1 R8 last year I always wondered if I should've maybe have bought one of those - I thought it was tremendous but had previously always disregarded them for one reason or another. It did highlight how much I wanted to get back in a naturally aspirated car again, hence looking at a Gen-1 R8 LMX. But I couldn't get comfortable in it as that final edition model only came with bucket seats, plus its tech was very dated.

I liked the look of the new one (at least after I saw it in person) and the interior was like being teleported into the future, even compared to the GT. The main draw compared to the GT is the drivetrain - that V10 and that transmission is simply the best I've experienced to date. The GT's transmission was actually very good and I couldn't imagine how shift speed and quality could perceptibly be improved upon, until I drove this new R8. It also rides better than my GT did and it seems to have similarly direct steering but with considerably more weight (the GT's always felt too light).

I've got a lot of time for AMG's but quite honestly, the R8 feels (and looks) like it's worth a good price point or two higher - ironically, it ended up costing about the same.

[T16OLE]

tuffer said:

I drove across France and back this year without using it so not that essential, I also lived in Germany for 4 years and managed just fine without it.

I use it on a daily basis, it makes is more relaxing. Especially with the radar guided systems.

Irrespective as to whether you like it or not, it is a popular tool, a £132k car without it is madness.

[tuffer]

T16OLE said:

tuffer said:

I drove across France and back this year without using it so not that essential, I also lived in Germany for 4 years and managed just fine without it.

I use it on a daily basis, it makes is more relaxing. Especially with the radar guided systems.

Irrespective as to whether you like it or not, it is a popular tool, a £132k car without it is madness.

It's not madness, I would happily buy one without it and it would not even cross my mind to ask if a car had it. It is as relevant to me as a cigarette lighter.

[T16OLE]

tuffer said:

It's not madness, I would happily buy one without it and it would not even cross my mind to ask if a car had it. It is as relevant to me as a cigarette lighter.

I can assure you that it would be detrimental come sale time.

You are in the minority too.

[tuffer]

T16OLE said:

tuffer said:

It's not madness, I would happily buy one without it and it would not even cross my mind to ask if a car had it. It is as relevant to me as a cigarette lighter.

I can assure you that it would be detrimental come sale time.

You are in the minority too.

Really, how many >£100K cars have you bought recently?

[Quickmoose]

I think I'd be grateful if it were on my £100k car and use it too.
But if all else on the car was as per my requirements, I wouldn't be sad or miss it, if it weren't there.

That said It is totally ridiculous the amount of kit that is left off the standard kit list and the prices of kit that sit on the options list.....especially when it's a 'delete' option.

[T16OLE]

tuffer said:

Really, how many >£100K cars have you bought recently?

None, though I`ve bought many sub £100,000 cars, all of which have cruise control