RE: Shed of the Week: MG ZS 180

[Roverload]

paulyv said:

One of the more positive and informed SOTW threads here.

Got me thinking of reacquainting myself with the 180, purely for on-track action (My Z4 is great but I always fear a prang and would prefer something I could leave embedded in the tyre wall if I needed to, figuratively speaking). Any people here willing to impart what could be done to the car to further sharpen its trackday credentials?

Polybushes and tyre choice play a big part, good induction (itg maxogen) and a good quality exhaust system are well worth the effort. Unfortunately there's alot of cheapskate owners out there who fit the cheapest part they can get hold of so avoid cars with stacks of euro car parts receipts. Suspension wise there's alot of civic coilovers that will fit but these are designed with the alloy four pot engine in mind so don't be tempted by them. You want to keep an eye out for xpower springs, they haven't made them in years but they are worth the money. Moto-build sell all manner of race parts geared toward chassis set up and there's a few die hard mg racers out there on facebook and the like. Do also remember that xpowerforums is still online. Completely dead traffic wise but the information on there is invaluable. Best of luck sir! Anything else you want to know just ask!

[s m]

Similar performance in the twisties to the Clio 172 by many accounts

[405dogvan]

Mr2Mike said:

405dogvan said:

As much as the engine/sleeper factor appeals, the fact I owned a Civic 5dr 1.8 VTi (underpinnings and interior shared here) which was beyond any doubt the worst, the most unreliable, the most fking awful car I've ever owned (or driven, if I'm honest) does kinda deter me from this...

I owned a 5 door 1.8VTi and a ZS180, and they are almost incomparable in the way they drive. The Honda was vague and woolly, even with a full set of new Koni shocks and new bushes through out. You won't be disappointed with a ZS180 in this respect if you get a nice one.

Interesting to know that - even if you ignore the awful build and faults I had, I found the VTi to be an awful car because it had NO idea what it was supposed to be doing.

It was harsh on the motorway, woolly most-everywhere else - steering lacked feel - engine lacked the 'fizz' of the 1.6 VTi - it just didn't seem to know what it was intended for (I chose it from a limited selection of company cars MAINLY on the basis I fitted inside it - that and it's stereo were the only highpoints really)

[Mr2Mike]

405dogvan said:

It was harsh on the motorway, woolly most-everywhere else - steering lacked feel - engine lacked the 'fizz' of the 1.6 VTi

Yep, the engine wasn't a patch on the 1.6, or even the 1.8 in the Integra Type R. I just doesn't have the same urge, you can hardly keep the tacho needle out of the red zone on a good 1.6 Vti.

[heebeegeetee]

The MG Car Club do an *excellent* speed championship. http://www.mgspeed.net/

So much more rewarding than track days imho.

[paulyv]

Roverload said:

Polybushes and tyre choice play a big part, good induction (itg maxogen) and a good quality exhaust system are well worth the effort. Unfortunately there's alot of cheapskate owners out there who fit the cheapest part they can get hold of so avoid cars with stacks of euro car parts receipts. Suspension wise there's alot of civic coilovers that will fit but these are designed with the alloy four pot engine in mind so don't be tempted by them. You want to keep an eye out for xpower springs, they haven't made them in years but they are worth the money. Moto-build sell all manner of race parts geared toward chassis set up and there's a few die hard mg racers out there on facebook and the like. Do also remember that xpowerforums is still online. Completely dead traffic wise but the information on there is invaluable. Best of luck sir! Anything else you want to know just ask!

Thank you very much indeed.

Pauly

[burritoNinja]

My old ZR is now heading to the scrap yard. Clutch fully went on it and with cost of new clutch and towing, my relative who owns it is just getting rid. About others mentioning about rust, the ZR was terrible for rust. The sills and under side are near falling off. Needed a lot of welding just for them to get it through MOT last summer.

[rallycross]

burritoNinja said:

My old ZR is now heading to the scrap yard. Clutch fully went on it and with cost of new clutch and towing, my relative who owns it is just getting rid. About others mentioning about rust, the ZR was terrible for rust. The sills and under side are near falling off. Needed a lot of welding just for them to get it through MOT last summer.

That sounds a bit sad. Any chance I could buy the inlet mani and a couple of wheels as track spares if its getting scrapped?
Where is the car located?

[s m]

rallycross said:

burritoNinja said:

My old ZR is now heading to the scrap yard. Clutch fully went on it and with cost of new clutch and towing, my relative who owns it is just getting rid. About others mentioning about rust, the ZR was terrible for rust. The sills and under side are near falling off. Needed a lot of welding just for them to get it through MOT last summer.

That sounds a bit sad. Any chance I could buy the inlet mani and a couple of wheels as track spares if its getting scrapped?
Where is the car located?

Did you buy one in the end?

[rallycross]

s m said:

Did you buy one in the end?

Yes a nice Mk1 ZS180 hatch, needs a little bit of TLC but will be good once sorted.

[PHMatt]

I did a single seat driving experience at Brands many years ago and the warm up laps were done driving one of these around to familiarize myself with the track. It was fairly new and utterly boring.

I suppose driving to the track in a lively MR2 Turbo then going around the track in a single seat F3 car didn't help it's cause but to my mind, it was a very boring car to look at and drive and wasn't particularly fast either.

You can probably get a 328 or 330 Sport for the same money and it'll be infinitely better

[Mr2Mike]

PHMatt said:

You can probably get a 328 or 330 Sport for the same money and it'll be infinitely better

Infinitely more knackered you mean. I doubt you'd even be able to drive an £800 330 Sport home after buying it, even if such a thing existed.

[s m]

PHMatt said:

I did a single seat driving experience at Brands many years ago and the warm up laps were done driving one of these around to familiarize myself with the track. It was fairly new and utterly boring.

I suppose driving to the track in a lively MR2 Turbo then going around the track in a single seat F3 car didn't help it's cause but to my mind, it was a very boring car to look at and drive and wasn't particularly fast either.

You can probably get a 328 or 330 Sport for the same money and it'll be infinitely better

I guess it's all relative - compared to an F3 car I expect most hot hatches of similar performance would feel a bit slow.
Reports do seem to suggest it was on the pace of a Clio 172 though....and not far off the Type R .... on a track

[heebeegeetee]

PHMatt said:

I did a single seat driving experience at Brands many years ago and the warm up laps were done driving one of these around to familiarize myself with the track. It was fairly new and utterly boring.

I suppose driving to the track in a lively MR2 Turbo then going around the track in a single seat F3 car didn't help it's cause but to my mind, it was a very boring car to look at and drive and wasn't particularly fast either.

You can probably get a 328 or 330 Sport for the same money and it'll be infinitely better

I passengered my pal in his ZS on his 3rd ever lap at the 'Ring, as we caught and passed an caged and helmeted 911 GT3 I thought it neither slow nor boring. I was very impressed.

Said pal has rallied in the past, and had come to the conclusion that there is no better car than the Mk2 Escort, so we were impressed when he concluded that his standard ZS would be faster than his last rally car. :-)

[s m]

heebeegeetee said:

PHMatt said:

I did a single seat driving experience at Brands many years ago and the warm up laps were done driving one of these around to familiarize myself with the track. It was fairly new and utterly boring.

I suppose driving to the track in a lively MR2 Turbo then going around the track in a single seat F3 car didn't help it's cause but to my mind, it was a very boring car to look at and drive and wasn't particularly fast either.

You can probably get a 328 or 330 Sport for the same money and it'll be infinitely better

I passengered my pal in his ZS on his 3rd ever lap at the 'Ring, as we caught and passed an caged and helmeted 911 GT3 I thought it neither slow nor boring. I was very impressed.

Said pal has rallied in the past, and had come to the conclusion that there is no better car than the Mk2 Escort, so we were impressed when he concluded that his standard ZS would be faster than his last rally car. :-)

Maybe the one that PH Matt went in was something like an MG ZS 120 rather than a full fat 180 V6 - racing schools often run stuff like that if it's just familiarisation laps?

When I was looking back at stuff in the older issues, I found they even did the normal Rover 45 with a 2-litre V6 - different small car with that engine in, no sporting pretentions

[T313]

Bought one last year for not very much, no MOT but it did start and run
Spent a few months on the drive chasing leaks, replacing tyres, brakes and bushes, plus fitting induction kit and clutch slave kit. Still lots to do but it passed it's MOT so i can drive it. Limited mileage classic car policy is less than £100/year.

First driving impressions - not that quick; it makes a lovely noise but on a straight road it almost seems to be in slow motion when floored. However get it in the right gear on a twisty road and in my opinion it's wonderful. Even after spending a bit on it it's still one of the cheapest cars I've owned - but i would place it near the top for driving enjoyment - for specifically that type of driving.

I really don't know what it's going to be like on a track although i intend to find out this year. But even if it's disappointing there are plenty roads near me where it isn't.

The biggest draw back now (and why i bought it in the first place) is they're so cheap. I want to keep fixing / replacing stuff that's worn or broken but it's hard to justify spending more on it. It really needs a respray but the cheapest decent job I've been quoted is 4 times what i paid for it..

If you buy a good one just for the fun of driving i can't imagine you'd regret it

[Kitchski]

One thing I'd say to anyone who says they're not quick, as that the one you've tried probably isn't dishing out all the ponies. When I had my 180, I held a rolling road day for the MG forum I was using. Half the V6s were losing power due to dicky secondary intakes.

When I got mine, I had the death rattle from broken flaps, and about 150BHP. I removed the flaps, and I pulled 174BHP on the dyno day. Only one ZS180 bettered that. All the others were lower, one was even in the 130BHP region. We also had a ZT190, which pulled 160 on the nose. When I said "that's bang on for a ZT160" the guy sheepishly had to point out it was a 190.

It's such a big thing on these cars, and I honestly reckon there might be something in the order of 30% or even more cars out there not making the power figures.

With the flaps ripped out and 174BHP recorded, it went well. Clio 172 kind of performance. But when they're not running right, they're juicy, yet slow!

[Mr2Mike]

Kitchski said:

One thing I'd say to anyone who says they're not quick, as that the one you've tried probably isn't dishing out all the ponies.

if the VIS motors aren't working or the linkages within the manifold are knackered then it puts a very noticeable dent in the performance and economy. That said, even after repairing the VIS motors mine still wasn't as quick or as economic as I'd hoped it might be. It was an excellent car to drive though, I honestly think the handling was better than my current EP3.

[s m]

Kitchski said:

One thing I'd say to anyone who says they're not quick, as that the one you've tried probably isn't dishing out all the ponies. When I had my 180, I held a rolling road day for the MG forum I was using. Half the V6s were losing power due to dicky secondary intakes.

When I got mine, I had the death rattle from broken flaps, and about 150BHP. I removed the flaps, and I pulled 174BHP on the dyno day. Only one ZS180 bettered that. All the others were lower, one was even in the 130BHP region. We also had a ZT190, which pulled 160 on the nose. When I said "that's bang on for a ZT160" the guy sheepishly had to point out it was a 190.

It's such a big thing on these cars, and I honestly reckon there might be something in the order of 30% or even more cars out there not making the power figures.

With the flaps ripped out and 174BHP recorded, it went well. Clio 172 kind of performance. But when they're not running right, they're juicy, yet slow!

That's good info - as you say, when they were new and running right they were definitely 172 performance looking at the road test comparisons on the pages before

When I had my 2.8 Cologne engine it was only putting out about 135 bhp ( with Janspeed manifolds and system on )

Just getting it running well, new injectors and sorting out the K-jet with some other bits and bobs and it was miles better- well over book and felt so much quicker and responsive

People sometimes don't realise if they bought it in a low performing state

[tali1]

s m said:

Mr2Mike said:

s m said:

Was that the 167bhp Civic that started about P-Reg?

Yes, the Rover 400 shaped car with a ridiculous gap in the gear ratios between 1st and 2nd that made VTEC drop out. Even without that it was slower than the 1.6 EK shaped Civic VTi. One of the more disappointing cars I've owned, but to be fair it was fairly cheap to buy and I sold it for about the same money. The only thing going for it is that it came with a torque biasing diff as standard, something the ZS really could have used.

This was mine:


Despite being almost the same car underneath the MG Rover engineers performed some kind of miracle on the ZS, they are quite different cars to drive.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Sunday 17th January 11:23

Ah yes, I looked at them as I was after a 4/5 door runabout with aircon but I opted for a Primera GT instead

The Civic did feel a bit woolly in comparison.

Just shows, as you say, that a bit of well-judged chassis tuning can work wonders

Think these start on R-reg .It's the short lived bug eye that are on P regs(saloon/coupe /3dr hatch vti- but no 5dr hatch)