Celica, still the best cheap coupe?
Discussion
After a lot of research I've narrowed it down to either a Hyundai Coupe or a 140bhp facelift Celica as my next, cheap car. As most Celicas now are over the 100,000 mile mark, do they have much life left in them?
I want the model with leather interior and climate control. The 190bhp models are usually over £1500 which I think is excessive given their age and I think I'd be happy with the performance from the 140. Just a shame most near me are in boring silver.
What do I need to look for when viewing?
I want the model with leather interior and climate control. The 190bhp models are usually over £1500 which I think is excessive given their age and I think I'd be happy with the performance from the 140. Just a shame most near me are in boring silver.
What do I need to look for when viewing?
I know literally nothing about the Celica, beyond "I'm pretty sure that's the one with four wheels". However, standard car buying procedure should work. IF you can, find a car where the current owner has had it a bit. Quiz them on the car, maintenance etc...
At these low prices, a lot of people will simply want to avoid expensive maintenance, or worse - sell the car just as it's about the need a lot done. A classic one is cambelts. There are a lot of Clios out there costing £1000 which are going to immediately need a £400/500 cambelt service.
A good owner and caring owner will have the car clean, if you ask to see it stone cold (a warm car can hide a lot of problems) they won't mind, and they will know the service intervals, typical problems of the models, etc etc...
Beyond that, does it look like it has the mileage it says on it? Interiors usually wear quicker than exterior for cars which are abused/not looked after. What condition are the seat bolsters in, etc etc...
Also, I am sure there must be buying guides for these things out there. Go find them, do your research. You might find "common problems" on the cars you look at that might be quick easy fixes, or could be car-in-the-bin stuff.
Good luck!
At these low prices, a lot of people will simply want to avoid expensive maintenance, or worse - sell the car just as it's about the need a lot done. A classic one is cambelts. There are a lot of Clios out there costing £1000 which are going to immediately need a £400/500 cambelt service.
A good owner and caring owner will have the car clean, if you ask to see it stone cold (a warm car can hide a lot of problems) they won't mind, and they will know the service intervals, typical problems of the models, etc etc...
Beyond that, does it look like it has the mileage it says on it? Interiors usually wear quicker than exterior for cars which are abused/not looked after. What condition are the seat bolsters in, etc etc...
Also, I am sure there must be buying guides for these things out there. Go find them, do your research. You might find "common problems" on the cars you look at that might be quick easy fixes, or could be car-in-the-bin stuff.
Good luck!
EazyDuz said:
After a lot of research I've narrowed it down to either a Hyundai Coupe or a 140bhp facelift Celica as my next, cheap car. As most Celicas now are over the 100,000 mile mark, do they have much life left in them?
I want the model with leather interior and climate control. The 190bhp models are usually over £1500 which I think is excessive given their age and I think I'd be happy with the performance from the 140. Just a shame most near me are in boring silver.
What do I need to look for when viewing?
My wife bought one brand new back in 2001.I want the model with leather interior and climate control. The 190bhp models are usually over £1500 which I think is excessive given their age and I think I'd be happy with the performance from the 140. Just a shame most near me are in boring silver.
What do I need to look for when viewing?
From memory, the onese to be wary of are the pre facelift cars as i think the engine can suffer major problems. I am sure someone who knows more will be along soon, or check an enthusiast forum.
The standard car came on 16 inch wheels and look a little weedy. Also the standard car didnt come with a boot spoiler.
A popular spec upgrade was to the 17 inch wheels and boot spoiler. Thats what we did at the time
Decent cars, quite light so 140BHP feels fine.
Agreed an MR2 will be more fun. My experience of the MR2 from many years ago was that the engine in that felt nippy at best, so it will feel positively flat in a Celica weighing another 200 kg, not to mention the compromises in handling of FFWD over MRWD.
For me the Hyundai Coupe is reliable but quite barge like. Handles and looks OK though.
There are a few other cheap options around too... 406 Coupe, Cougar, Puma, Prelude, FTO etc etc...
For me the Hyundai Coupe is reliable but quite barge like. Handles and looks OK though.
There are a few other cheap options around too... 406 Coupe, Cougar, Puma, Prelude, FTO etc etc...
Im sure someone will be along but i THINK the consensus is that the 190 is a more reliable engine than the 140?
I worked at Toyota pretty much when these came out (albeit as a lowly apprentice) but i ocasionally had the use of the Celica 190 and it was tremendous, especially for an 18ish year old. Proper low slung driving position too.
I worked at Toyota pretty much when these came out (albeit as a lowly apprentice) but i ocasionally had the use of the Celica 190 and it was tremendous, especially for an 18ish year old. Proper low slung driving position too.
They are fantastic cars. I've had two, a '99 190 and a '05 T-Sport. The T-Sport is the top of the range but the 190 is the same car less the bodykit and bigger wheels.
The 190 is the better engine in terms of reliability and performance (obviously). Some early 190 engines did have problems with oil loss and the valve lift system not working - but the cars affected will either have been fixed or scrapped by now. It's easy to tell if the engine's working or not, drive it and you will feel the engine pick up more as it revs faster. My experience of the Toyota vvti-l and the vtec in my Honda S2000 was that the Toyota kicked in (yo) harder than the Honda - although I never drove the contemporary Civic/Integra vtec system which would be a better like for like comparison.
I've never driven a 140, apparently they are fine but the 190 engine gives the car more speed, character and a harder edge. They are incredibly reliable. My first one went well over 100k miles with no problems and apparently is still going strong some 8(!) years after I sold it, despite me being obliged, being a young bloke, to thrash it and not necessarily lavish it with the car it deserved. Great gearbox, lots of kit. Quite practical too, excellent if flat load space and the back seats are tolerable for small people for short trips. Bearing in mind its a car of a certain age, if you get one with a decent history and good nick you're unlikely to get a more reliable solid car. Mileage isn't something I'd be concerned about at all.
Only downside, I'd say, is it's a bit rattly inside. I never noticed that being a problem in my first one, but my second one rattled a lot. I'm not sure if that's simply because it was older and/or I'd just got older and more used to more modern car, but apparently the plastics used become rattly with age. There are a lot of potential fixes for them on the Celica club website, which is a great resource.
It's a different type of coupe from a Hyundai - the Toyota is harder-edged, rides harder and isn't as GT-like. Try both and see what you prefer but my money would be on the Toyota.
The 190 is the better engine in terms of reliability and performance (obviously). Some early 190 engines did have problems with oil loss and the valve lift system not working - but the cars affected will either have been fixed or scrapped by now. It's easy to tell if the engine's working or not, drive it and you will feel the engine pick up more as it revs faster. My experience of the Toyota vvti-l and the vtec in my Honda S2000 was that the Toyota kicked in (yo) harder than the Honda - although I never drove the contemporary Civic/Integra vtec system which would be a better like for like comparison.
I've never driven a 140, apparently they are fine but the 190 engine gives the car more speed, character and a harder edge. They are incredibly reliable. My first one went well over 100k miles with no problems and apparently is still going strong some 8(!) years after I sold it, despite me being obliged, being a young bloke, to thrash it and not necessarily lavish it with the car it deserved. Great gearbox, lots of kit. Quite practical too, excellent if flat load space and the back seats are tolerable for small people for short trips. Bearing in mind its a car of a certain age, if you get one with a decent history and good nick you're unlikely to get a more reliable solid car. Mileage isn't something I'd be concerned about at all.
Only downside, I'd say, is it's a bit rattly inside. I never noticed that being a problem in my first one, but my second one rattled a lot. I'm not sure if that's simply because it was older and/or I'd just got older and more used to more modern car, but apparently the plastics used become rattly with age. There are a lot of potential fixes for them on the Celica club website, which is a great resource.
It's a different type of coupe from a Hyundai - the Toyota is harder-edged, rides harder and isn't as GT-like. Try both and see what you prefer but my money would be on the Toyota.
TameRacingDriver said:
Agreed an MR2 will be more fun. My experience of the MR2 from many years ago was that the engine in that felt nippy at best, so it will feel positively flat in a Celica weighing another 200 kg, not to mention the compromises in handling of FFWD over MRWD.
For me the Hyundai Coupe is reliable but quite barge like. Handles and looks OK though.
There are a few other cheap options around too... 406 Coupe, Cougar, Puma, Prelude, FTO etc etc...
The MR2 had a 140 engine, the 190 gives it more oomph. I'd not consider a 140 Celica to be much more than tepidly quick.For me the Hyundai Coupe is reliable but quite barge like. Handles and looks OK though.
There are a few other cheap options around too... 406 Coupe, Cougar, Puma, Prelude, FTO etc etc...
I'd put the 406 and Cougar in the softer "mini-GT" category, the Puma, Prelude and Celica are more sportscarsy in their attitude and performance. I like all of the cars named but would pick a Celica as the best compromise between handling, performance and reliability. Surprising how few Preludes there are about these days.
Edited by forzaminardi on Tuesday 19th January 12:09
I love my Celica, mk7 '53 plate. I normally change cars every two years, I've had the Celica for three and a half and I'm not planning on getting rid anytime soon. It ticks so many boxes for me; looks good (IMO, obviously), great driving position, really chuckable and fun, sounds great (mine has a cone filter), reliable (a biggy for me as I'm not super talented with the spanners and need a dependable daily), economical and practical for a coupe. I do fancy an MR2, but I don't think I could live with a two seater.
What to look for:
-Check the alarm works properly and that the doors lock and unlock from the remote-a common Celica problem
-Avoid pre-facelift cars as they can be afflicted with oil starvation from ovalisation of the bores. The facelift cars have the long, thin letterbox slot in the bumper and slightly different rear lights (53 reg onwards I think)
-Check the condition of the alloys, they're prone to corrosion
-I've had to have the brakes cleaned and adjusted a couple of times as the calipers can seize, and my hubs are quite rusty
-Fitting bigger alloys can wreck the wheel bearing (and the ride, I think the standard wheel size gives the best ride/handling compromise)
Other than that, it's just the normal things you'd look for on a second hand car. The engines are chain driven, so no cam belt to worry about, so long as it's had regular oil changes. Other than an annual oil change and tyres, mine's only needed a battery, new rear pads/discs and a new radiator. It isn't a fast car (mine's the 140), but it's still enormous fun to drive quickly; lots of grip, sharp turn in and plenty of warning when you're about to get out of shape. For the money, I don't think there's much to match it as a fun car that's usable daily. I've never driven the Hyundai Coupe, but from what I've read it's quite wallowy and feels heavy, more of a GT.
I drove mine to Monaco and back in October and enjoyed it very much and, with the exception of the centre exhaust heatshield coming a little loose (gaffered it back into place!) it behaved perfectly, not bad for a 12 year old car!!
What to look for:
-Check the alarm works properly and that the doors lock and unlock from the remote-a common Celica problem
-Avoid pre-facelift cars as they can be afflicted with oil starvation from ovalisation of the bores. The facelift cars have the long, thin letterbox slot in the bumper and slightly different rear lights (53 reg onwards I think)
-Check the condition of the alloys, they're prone to corrosion
-I've had to have the brakes cleaned and adjusted a couple of times as the calipers can seize, and my hubs are quite rusty
-Fitting bigger alloys can wreck the wheel bearing (and the ride, I think the standard wheel size gives the best ride/handling compromise)
Other than that, it's just the normal things you'd look for on a second hand car. The engines are chain driven, so no cam belt to worry about, so long as it's had regular oil changes. Other than an annual oil change and tyres, mine's only needed a battery, new rear pads/discs and a new radiator. It isn't a fast car (mine's the 140), but it's still enormous fun to drive quickly; lots of grip, sharp turn in and plenty of warning when you're about to get out of shape. For the money, I don't think there's much to match it as a fun car that's usable daily. I've never driven the Hyundai Coupe, but from what I've read it's quite wallowy and feels heavy, more of a GT.
I drove mine to Monaco and back in October and enjoyed it very much and, with the exception of the centre exhaust heatshield coming a little loose (gaffered it back into place!) it behaved perfectly, not bad for a 12 year old car!!
Edited by Track Rod on Tuesday 19th January 13:25
T66ORA said:
Go for a old RWD version, call it a GT85 and get instant PH cred 
Pistonhead cred means zilch. I'd drive a Nissan Micra if i enjoyed it. Struggling to find a clean example. Someone had one listed earlier, 03 plate with FSH and an MOT.
I checked the MOT history and it had a shopping list of advisories ranging from an oil leak to chassis rust.
danllama said:
Are these six speed manual or five?
Mine was a 6spd. The gear ratios are bit long actually, lift in 3rd is in licence losing territory so you can't smash through the box like you can in a civic type R. It's a shame really as using th lift zone is th best thing about them really. dave_s13 said:
Mine was a 6spd. The gear ratios are bit long actually, lift in 3rd is in licence losing territory so you can't smash through the box like you can in a civic type R. It's a shame really as using th lift zone is th best thing about them really.
I found that the gearing, and the fact the box was very notchy and even borderline difficult to engage gears quickly was its worst points. If they had got it right, they would have had a Civic Type-R beater for absolute certain IMO. I would have maybe even liked it as much as my DC2. It spoiled the car a lot for me. Still though for the price of an average months wages, a lot of car.Just get a higher mileage 190. It won't be an issue if it's been well looked after. Treat it to good quality oil and it will go on and on.
Lovely car. Not lightning fast, obviously, but my god the handling is fantastic. And incredibly practically useful too. Immense bootspace with the seats down.
I love mine.
Lovely car. Not lightning fast, obviously, but my god the handling is fantastic. And incredibly practically useful too. Immense bootspace with the seats down.
I love mine.
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